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Re-birth

ddrishiddrishi
edited September 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?

Comments

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    All I can say is, this is open to interpretation. There have been nasty fights lasting for many pages over this question, here. Good luck with this thread. :s
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    :banghead:
  • riverflowriverflow Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?
    Who knows? But there are PLENTY of texts to indicate he taught the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. Apparently the importance of that far outweighed such speculative matters.

    Why should people be so concerned with rebirth, but not concerned with the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path?

    A samurai once asked Zen Master Hakuin where he would go after he died.
    Hakuin answered “How am I supposed to know?”
    “How do you not know? You’re a Zen master!” exclaimed the samurai.
    “Yes, but not a dead one,” Hakuin said.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    A samurai once asked Zen Master Hakuin where he would go after he died.
    Hakuin answered “How am I supposed to know?”
    “How do you not know? You’re a Zen master!” exclaimed the samurai.
    “Yes, but not a dead one,” Hakuin said.
    Well, exactly. If the Buddha said he DID know, thats a little bit strange. It may discredit him, to some people, if he claimed he knew that rebirth occurs.
  • I_AM_THATI_AM_THAT Veteran
    One interpretation I read is that the when the question was posed to the Buddha on re-birth, the Buddha did not answer and remained silent. The interpretation was that in his silence the Buddha indicated that this should not be of concern, since the only things that matters is what is taking place in this very moment. Why worry about re-birth when you have not learn how to die or even how to live.

  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?
    My suggestion is that you don't get hung up on a quest for authenticity, instead answer these questions yourself, and just for yourself. The texts and teachings are guides not truths:)

    Namaste
  • riverflowriverflow Veteran
    "So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared. And what is undeclared by me? 'The cosmos is eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is not eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is finite'... 'The cosmos is infinite'... 'The soul & the body are the same'... 'The soul is one thing and the body another'... 'After death a Tathagata exists'... 'After death a Tathagata does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' is undeclared by me.

    "And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me.

    "And what is declared by me? 'This is stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the origination of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. And why are they declared by me? Because they are connected with the goal, are fundamental to the holy life. They lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are declared by me.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.063.than.html
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?
    no

    when the Buddha described his concept of "rebirth" or "born again" or "arise again" (there are many Pali words which the translators translate as one English word "rebirth"), the principles apply to the mechanism of karma equally to the here-&-now (as well as any speculations about post-mortem rebirth).

    as for the term "past lives", this does not actually exist in the Pali. The Pali is 'pubbenivasa', which literally means 'past abodes' or 'former dwellings' or 'previous homes'

    for example, the famous rebirth inclined scholar Buddhaghosa, correctly interpreted ""past lives" as "becoming" (bhava). "Becoming" is a mental state, when we believe we "exist" as "something"

    for example, we think back to the past and remember: "my best friend was Johhny when i was 5 years old"; "my first bicycle was coloured purple"; "i won the art prize when i was 10 years old"; "my first girlfriend was Sally"; etc

    the Buddha at the link that recollection "past abodes" mean one recollects in the past how they ignorantly clung to the five aggregates as "I", "me" and "mine"

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.079.than.html
    At Savatthi. "Monks, any priests or contemplatives who recollect their manifold past dwellings all recollect the five aggregates subjected to clinging or one among them. Which five? When recollecting, 'I was one with such a form in the past,' one is recollecting just form. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a feeling in the past,' one is recollecting just feeling. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a perception in the past,' one is recollecting just perception. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such mental fabrications in the past,' one is recollecting just mental fabrications. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a consciousness in the past,' one is recollecting just consciousness.
    :)
    32. Now, this word birth (játi) has many meanings.

    For in the passage “[He recollects] one birth (játi), two births” (D I 81) it is becoming.

    In the passage, “Visákhá, there is a kind (játi) of ascetics called Nigaóþhas (Jains)” (A I 206) it is a monastic order.

    In the passage, “Birth (játi) is included in two aggregates” it is the characteristic of whatever is formed.

    In the passage, “His birth is due to the first consciousness arisen, the first cognition manifested, in the mother’s womb” (Vin I 93) it is rebirth-linking.

    [499] In the passage “As soon as he was born (sampatijáta), Ánanda, the Bodhisatta …” (M III 123) it is parturition.

    In the passage “One who is not rejected and despised on account of birth” (A III 152) it is clan. In the passage “Sister, since I was born with the noble birth” (M II 103) it is the Noble One’s virtue.[page 510]

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf


  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?
    however, the teachings are expressed so they can be interpreted in two ways

    but as i said, the principles do not change

    from karma, there will 'arise' a result in the future

    the mind will take birth again in a state it must resolve

    :)
    The Awakened One, best of speakers,
    Spoke two kinds of truths:
    The conventional and the ultimate.
    A third truth does not obtain.

    Therein:
    The speech wherewith the world converses is true
    On account of its being agreed upon by the world.
    The speech which describes what is ultimate is also true,
    Through characterizing dhammas as they really are.

    Therefore, being skilled in common usage,
    False speech does not arise in the Teacher,
    Who is Lord of the World,
    When he speaks according to conventions.

    (Mn. i. 95)
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited September 2011
    As to the OP, there are traditional accounts of the Buddha remembering past lives, though this can also be translated as past "abodes" or "dwellings". Whether it is taken literally or not, that's the question. The purpose was to demonstrate skillful actions or qualities, like modern day fables; there was always a lesson to be learned from such accounts, even if not taken literally.

    As long as there is ignorance, there will be craving and attachment, the causes of suffering. The cycle of suffering (called Samsara) ends when the Four Noble Truths have been fully penetrated by the mind. There is no "being" that is reborn... there's no separate being even now. Not-Self is also difficult to understand, because we're so caught up in "I" and "me/mine" that we don't see this as the mind acting on delusion, on wrong views due to ignorance.

    Ignorance is reborn. Greed, hatred and delusion are reborn. In short, suffering is reborn... not a self. The purpose of the Noble Eightfold Path is the cessation of suffering through the cessation of craving (tanha), which is the mind's natural reaction when there is clarity of reality. In the Buddha's time, "rebirth" was a negative thing, something to be ended... we can easily look at it in a self-focused way and wish it to continue (to comfort us that we survive death somehow), but that only keeps us bound in suffering. That is the same temporary relief as believing in a heaven, and it's okay to believe... if that's what you choose. Beliefs change.
  • DazzleDazzle
    We can be reborn into different mental states according to our moods during the course of one day. Mindfulness and clear comprehension disentangles the mind from getting caught up in 'me' and 'mine'.
    .
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    Is there anything in authentic Buddhist texts to affirm that Buddha believed in re-birth or remembered his past lives?
    Once again, you're confusing rebirth with reincarnation. Since there is no "him" to remember "his" past lives, it seems pretty much a non-starter. Rebirth does not mean literal return of "me", but rather the energy that constitutes our life force (chi, or whatever you want to call it). The personality ("me") doesn't exist, so isn't reborn, nor does it carry through from lifetime to lifetime. The OP also presupposes that "his" past lifetimes were human. Couldn't have have been a crayfish or an antelope? Would he remember (or want to remember) those lives?
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