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Buddhism vs. Ambition
If I live in the now, If I come to realize that I am more than the ego and that the essance is who I am, why go to work, other than to provide the bare nessesities? Why work out, other than to be in a normally fit person? If happiness is in the mind, why try to achieve more than the bare minimum to survive?
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Comments
is this a quiz?
Simply because we do things it doesn't mean we go against practice.
The secret is to be attached to them without clinging.
Enter a competition.
Lose?
Too bad.
Let it go now.
Win?
Great!
Let it go now.
What's the problem?
for there the grasping becomes subtler and subtler.
i know a lot of people who realize truth and just sit around.
what a rude awakening they've had. reality always knocks.
is there a difference between what is needed verses what is excess. who determines such?
if contentment is already the case then isn't everything permitted? in that infinite potential all is expressed.
but the universe moves in a certain way. and just like the grass growing in the ground, we grow and grow.
one may end becoming and suffering for oneself. but sooner or later they will realize two things. there is still suffering out there and that they are in a human body with a human heart. such a rude awakening!
ambition simply is the energy/motivation of desire. what do we desire when there is no more desires?
when another is hungry, we become hungry. thus we feed them.
when another is suffering, we become suffering. thus we try to relieve them.
It is really not that difficult to make a transition from self-centric motivation to altruistic motivation. For instance, if we recognize that our job, house, life and so forth will all fade within a few years or decades, what is worth spending our precious moments of life working toward? Certainly materialism is purposeless, sensual pleasures fleeting, and hoarding impossible. These are only conditions that distract and bind us.
However, if we can recognize that the conditions that bind us are impermanent, and that we are capable of liberating our mind's habits, given the right conditions... we can also realize that others can too!
So, we can contribute to the awakening of ourselves and others, by offering our attention, becoming conduits of compassion, and helping bring about the conditions of liberation. Said differently, we let go of the self-cyclic actions (which we realize bring suffering with them) and act for the "greater good" or the liberation of humankind from its feral roots.
This centralizes the buoyant joy we experience moment to moment, because it is not about collection, but about being awake and available. In my experience, it is something that feels peaceful, does not cause the mind to cling, and yields a very experiential sense of satisfaction. Then, whether you're a lawyer, fry cook, psychologist, or bus driver... the moments you take part in are not about "you" so much as "everyone."
With warmth,
Matt
Also, working only to provide the bare necessities a) won't allow you to give dana (donation) at the sangha, or donations to charitable organizations to help alleviate suffering and b) will leave you on the street when you get to retirement age, without the means to pay for any medications you may need, doctor visits, and in your last years, home health care or a nursing home. It's a fallacy that Buddhism is against planning for the future.
Cultivate compassion, and you'll find reason enough to strive to excel.
"Why work out except to be a normally fit person?" Isn't that why people work out? What other reason is there, unless you see a career for yourself as a bodybuilder?
The way I see it, Buddhism hasn't provided me with a solid answer to it (although I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this).
Motivation, personal will, goals, compassion....I have yet to hear a good rationale for pursuing personal goals in buddhism and not just being motivated 100% by compassion. I don't know how much room is left for self-expression, imagination and fun.
I thought Buddhism was the epitome of self-expression and reaching joy. The fact that there's no fixed, unchanging "self" means we are to develop our self in our own unique way, bringing to bear our unique talents, to contribute contructively to the world. Buddhism is about striving to reach the peak of self-actualization for the betterment of humanity. As I understand it.
Are you depressed, mattymatt, or just confused about Buddhist teachings?
That coice, to follow the Path to Enlightenment, is a future-oriented choice, it's about setting a goal. If Buddhism were all about "the Now", there really wouldn't be any reason to do anything but sit around staring at your belly-button, chanting "OM" :om:
and the essence is who I am
I don't build myself a room with a view
of hell
and call it heaven.
Buddhism is about benefitting all sentient beings.
I'd like people in this forum and in buddhism is general to take this topic more seriously and give it the importance it deserves. If Buddhism is here to help us in a myriad of ways and if it has something to say about every aspect of our lives, shouldn't it be a basis for the decisions we make in terms of career and how to spend our time?
There's also something to be said for taking whatever job you can get, as long as it doesn't cause harm, and finding a sense of purpose in it. We can bring spirituality to whatever we do.
You have to start somewhere and not approach this with *expectations* that you need to get this right from the start. There will be a chain of events that may lead you to being as effective and compassionate as possible. To expect this goal to be your starting point seems unrealistic.
Another view is to look at work as a job that supports you financially while you do your compassionate work on the side, by either volunteering or donating funds. Any of those options seem better than nothing - and can be a stepping stone to other mindful pursuits.
You may think you have a good theoretical understanding of the precepts etc, but you need to combine this with a realistic approach to life - and the understanding that everything is a process - to make anything of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Non-attachment actually has freed me up quite a bit. I am not attached to what everyone else thinks and imagining that they approve of this or disapprove of that (watch your thoughts carefully and notice how much of your tension is thinking along those lines, and how much energy and creativity it can sap, but it could just be me). Non-attachment to a specific lifestyle has allowed me to go into work that uses more of my skills and has a better chance of long term success, but also is not leaving me in poverty (all those survival jobs over the years didn't have a future or a living wage). And non-attachment means we are not attached to being the smartest in the room which leaves room for colloboration which increases creativity and success
In all cases this is how I have used the basic buddhist tenets and how they function in my life.
So, Epicurus, even though it may seem torturous to not know what you want to do, there are two (or three) sides to every coin. What if your only option were to follow a parent or relative in their business, and it happened to be something you hate? There are no easy answers, and this economy doesn't make it any easier. Good luck. Is there someone you could apprentice yourself to, and learn a new skill on the job?
Well, realistically I think people could find out ways to live their lives without contributing to a lot of what is bad in the world. Realistically one could choose to make sure every penny earned came from a worthwhile and ecological endeavor and could strive to have the balls to live also ecologically (and I don't mean just soundly from an environmental standpoint, but by creating more good than bad) in other areas of our lives.
I guess these matters matter to me a lot at a point where I don't know what I should choose in terms of carreer and am only vaguely motivated by movies and videogames. But to get to the point where I could earn money from such endeavors (not mentioning the insane mental commitment involved) I'd have to partake in a lot of things I don't think are good karma. Not in the slightest. Do you understand what I mean?
It does not make all jobs equal, however we always have choices. About another situation in my life I said that I could end up in any circumstance afterwards, rich or poor or somewhere in the middle, however it was always my choice to behave in a way I could respect later.
"To have much learning, to be skillful in handicraft, well-trained in discipline,[9] and to be of good speech — this is the greatest blessing.
"To support mother and father, to cherish wife and children, and to be engaged in peaceful occupation — this is the greatest blessing."
-from the Mangala Sutta
Alan
....when I found buddhism I loved it. But I quickly saw myself muddier and muddier as far as what my goals in life are. I know I don't want to be a monk or anything. But it seems the more I meditate the more I feel disconnected from what little personal will I have. I can stand just any boring job because my mind is too creative to get satisfaction out of it...but at the same time I feel I've been asleep all my life to what my own needs were. I don't date, I don't have much hobbies....
For a long time I thought people were right and I was just lazy....but I now can tell with more insight that it's a lack of personal will. Even though this might kinda sound good from an enlightenment standpoint as far as realizing part of the truth...I need a sense of direction in my life because I never freaking enjoy life or do what I love. And I'm losing touch with what its is I love.
This is why I've stopped meditating. I'm at a time I'm getting fed up not knowing what to do in terms of carreer and other things in life.
Sorry for the long post....but if anyone is still reading what are your thoughts on personal will? Is it wrong to set goals? And what should I base those goals on if I feel disconnected from personal will. I have a vague idea of things I like (like being involved in movies or games) but I've held myself too long as the wise detached unmaterialistic jedi to know what the right course of action is. I have a difficulty meeting my personal needs and that doesn't feel right at all, even froma buddhist standpoint. Thoughts?
The Buddha said something about our work should be doing what we love, but did he say how to get in contact with that part of ourselves? To know what our heart loves?
It sounds like for now, you did the right thing to stop meditating. It's not for everyone. Some people experience effects that aren't helpful.
What makes you happy and jazzed about life? What subjects in school did you respond to? What hobbies or volunteer work, if any? Do you have mechanical aptitude? Do you like to work with your hands, or more with your mind? Do you like kids? Take a trip to the bookstore, and see if there are any books on doing a self-assessment for choosing a career.
But you see you don't just set a goal to be an auteur movie director like you say you are gonna be an engineer and you go to school to be an engineer. You have to have a real passion for it, otherwise the likelihood of even making a living off of it is very very slim.
I guess the point isn't so much about what I want to do but what buddhist philosophy has to say about this. I feel there needs to be a purpose. I know it's not wrong to set a goal, but to have a passionate goal seems to go against the philosophy of it no? But then if the individual feels no energy because he has nothing to fight towards what's the point?
I'm reminded of Adyashanti saying he was 30 and still working at a bike shop. It sounds stupid but I feel I need an ego to know how to make a decision in terms of career. I always thought it was stupid when some monks trivialize the idea of what job you have. I think they are so used to teaching to societies obsessed about "making it" that they forget not everyone has such an obsession. But no big things or big jobs or positions of leadership are ever attained if one doesn't dream big no?
in such total acceptance move about!
whatever occurs, smile and embrace it allllllll
life will take you where you need to be.
but look at where you are at. in al of its imperfection. it is where you need to be because if it wasn't you be somewhere else.
what makes the heart move?
whatever that is follow such path.
Some people work and become wealthy.
Others do the same and remain poor.
Marriage fills one with energy,
Another it drains.
Don't trust ways, they change.
A means flails about like a donkey's tail.
Always add the gratitude clause
To any sentence, if God wills,
then go . . .
-Rumi
The rain has stopped, the clouds have drifted away,
and the weather is clear again.
If your heart is pure, then all things in your world are pure . . .
Then the moon and flowers will guide you along the Way.
-Ryokan
"Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary. Then ask yourself and yourself alone one question. This question is one that only a very old man asks. My benefactor told me about it once when I was young and my blood was to vigorous for me to understand it. Now I do understand it. I will tell you what it is: Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good. IF it doesn't, it is of no use."
-Don Juan, in his teachings to Carlos Castaneda
sit with it all. open up. embrace. just be with your experience as it is. your frustration. your fear. you lack of motivation. your boredom. your happiness. everything just sit with it.
when you do that for a while you'll just start opening up to it all. you'll start being okay with it all. you'll start embracing it all. then you will see that everything is really okay.
I've been struggling with the same sort of question - what should I be doing with my life? and I've made a few posts here trying to explore that for myself.
More recently I've been meditating on death and the practical outcome of that is that I'm realising my own mortality. I'm going to die, sometime, maybe before I finish typing this, maybe in 60 years. If I'm ever going to be happy I want to be happy now. If I'm going to die there is no failing, theres only loving each moment whatever the outcome. Both my mum and dad passed away recently and we went through all their stuff and threw away so many things they'd held dear for many many years. Your stuff means bugger-all to anyone else after you are dead.
What am I doing now and my suggestion to you? Look in yourself, without judgement of "is this an ego thing, is anyone going to judge me, is this right according to buddhism" etc etc - and DO something. That could be sitting and meditating and loving breathing. It could be opening up to your passion for directing films. Whatever it is love every moment of it - you are going to die very soon so what do you have to lose?
I'm still learning how to do that but its making sense to me. I'm having to let go of my own preconceived judgements of myself or by others. Basically I've decided to stop making excuses for myself or I'll still be making them on my deathbed. But its also not trying to achieve anything for the sake of achievement, its going out and living life with passion!
Even movie directiing only makes sense in my head if it's making people more aware in some way.
It's really hard putting words but it's definitely not out of trying to achieve for the sake of achievement but about flowing with life ya know? Living with passion exactly! I have been missing that all my life and it's only because I think the Buddha would agree that I'm posting about it here all the time.
It's much more important a topic than people give credit to I think.
no theory or practice can help you.
you just do it.
i honestly think most people are really afraid of living life than death. so just live it.