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Alcohol Versus Meditation
Hi everyone,
First I'd like to introduce myself. I've just joined the forum so I am looking forward to learning a lot about buddhism.
My first question may seem odd but I have been curious.
(1) Can meditation be used to emulate the pleasurable effects of getting drunk or being tipsy? I drink and would like to cut down on my drinking but am seeking a replacement.
(2) Can getting drunk be "spirtually enlightening" under certain circumstances? I have anxiety and after having a couple of drinks "all was clear". I could percieve reality without disturbing thoughts, moods.
(3) Can meditation be used to emulate other "highs" you might get from consuming substances?
First I'd like to introduce myself. I've just joined the forum so I am looking forward to learning a lot about buddhism.
My first question may seem odd but I have been curious.
(1) Can meditation be used to emulate the pleasurable effects of getting drunk or being tipsy? I drink and would like to cut down on my drinking but am seeking a replacement.
(2) Can getting drunk be "spirtually enlightening" under certain circumstances? I have anxiety and after having a couple of drinks "all was clear". I could percieve reality without disturbing thoughts, moods.
(3) Can meditation be used to emulate other "highs" you might get from consuming substances?
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Comments
Now, I believe all things can be used positively, even spiritually. As far as alcohol, the potential benefit I see from it is a lowering of the filters we normally have, and getting in touch with one's true emotions and feelings about things, without the repression we normally feel and unwillingness to acknowledge and say what we really feel. Alcohol can, of course, make you go overboard in this regard, and ramble on about some random things that you're going to regret in the morning. Nonetheless, I see this as a potential benefit, but it should be integrated into sober-consciousness as well, to a proper degree.
Generally, if you cut something out it's because you're attached to it too strongly, and you need to go without it.... no. No.
what you perceived was a numbing of your senses, and a dulling of your perception.
Meditation will bring better clarity, peace of mind and a calm state. No.
Neither should it ever be pursued for such instances, because that's not the point.
1. Personally, I don't see meditation as a "replacement" for drinking. Perhaps if you're looking at it as part of a larger picture, as in - replacing the time spent drinking with meditating because you understand what it's about. However, simply as a crutch, I would say no.
2. Under "certain circumstances" - like what? Perhaps after a couple of drinks your anxiety lessens, but what happens when you sober up?
3. I don't have a lot of experience with mind-altering substances, so I can't really answer that.
Forgive me, as I'm not trying to come across as harsh, but it looks like you're trying to find a way to tie in your pleasure-seeking (drinking, substance highs) with religion to give yourself validation. If I may ask, what has brought you here?
(I have to work now but I'd like to come back and post more on this later.)
2) the drinking only gets rid of the anxiety.. the beauty that comes out is you. It is not the alcohol
3) no see 1
But don't both meditation and drinking change one's perception? Why is it that drinking messes you up while meditation gives more clarity? Are different parts of the brain affected?
The mind during and after taking alcohol is just so different.
Being compassionate to myself i've limited my intake.
But at times its alright to let go and enjoy yourself.
Whether taking alcohol or not all actions of body, speech and mind i dedicate to all sentient beings.
Just see what works for yourself. Then do the most obvious thing. I've had some great times with many people over some alcohol. Taking about life and gving bits of wisdom here and there.
There are no true absolutes. But that can be used to justify insane egoism. So be careful not to dig yourself a ditch.
You watch your breath, count breaths to stay focused on one thing, and when your mind wanders you bring it back to counting. The goal is mental clarity and concentration, which will allow for better comprehension, which in turn paves the way for less suffering and more compassion on your path.
So what are the qualities of this sitting meditation? They are not states of mind like drugs. Because they can go into any state. Sort of like water can fit any container.
The five qualities I learned in Pema Chodron's dharma talk: being our friend through and through, seeing what is there, staying with difficulties (states, feelings), being there in the present,, I think of this as connected, and a sense of no big deal.
Alcohol, drugs, etc... they aren't going to cause any sort of long term change in the mind. It's just temporary, and even then completely out of your control. The idea is to learn how to feel good, and not feel bad, without needing to be intoxicated. Intoxicants, in the long run, will retard the process of creating positive mental states and removing negative mental states.
Don't meditate to mess up yourself. Meditation vs Medication. Destruction vs. being totally here and now.
To muster the energy you will need to deal with your feelings you should not have an alcohol addiction. Right?
To deal with the temptation to drink you will need to commit to never drinking again. The urges will subside with time.
The pleasurable feelings that you associate with drinking will lose their appeal.
The Buddha once told a group of people that when you have a friendship and all you do is get drunk or intoxicated they are your enemy. (my own words)
You can stop scratching and eventually the scabs will heal and the itch will go away to peace.
Wrong views you have to destroy with insight in real sober meditation. Kleshas (feelings that are uncomfortable) are the energy flowing from the structure of the beliefs. They can just be endured and eventually since you don't resist them they settle down. But the kleshas will keep coming back until the seeds of wrong view are destroyed. Shining the light of mindfulness and insight in meditation on the ignorance.
Thanks for this
As for the initial question. I would suggest thinking about why you want to emulate the pleasurable feelings of being drunk.
As for the second. If by "spiritually enlightening" you mean bringing to light the possibility of a more positive path in life, then I would say yes - drugs can shatter alot of ignorance and in a sense, encourage people to try and understand the true sense of reality. However, as the link above explains, they also create more, subtle ignorance. If alcohol shows you a world without worry and anxiety and you wish to achieve this without use of alcohol, that is great - however you should not try to emulate the effects of alcohol, because this is not only delusional, it's impossible. You should use meditation to understand what causes your anxiety and worry and thus remove the root, bit by bit. If you try to emulate the effects of an intoxicant, you may remove your worry and anxiety, but come up wanting - which could easily cause you to resort to intoxicants in the future and undo any progress you've made.
As for the third question. I haven't been meditating very long, and I feel it would be foolish to compare the sensations I've experienced during zazen to drug use. I've habitually used ecstasy, acid, dmt, and primarily marijuana for years, and the quiet, empty calm I've experienced momentarily during meditation is unlike any of them. So my answer is no, and that is a positive thing.