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People at different levels of Buddhahood?

HookahCaterpillarHookahCaterpillar
edited March 2012 in Philosophy
It is said that after sotapanna - the first 'nirvana' - it is a maximum of 7 lives to complete liberation.

But what does this mean in reality? Are there people walking around who have 5 lives to go, someone who have 2, some who have achieved nirvanna, and some who could not experience sotapanna for 100 lifetimes (if they start accumulating good karma)?

Comments

  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Could be... :)

    What does 'reality' mean in reality?!! ;)
  • HookahCaterpillarHookahCaterpillar
    the flawed reality i assume you also percieve ... (i really dont like Solipsism) :eek2:
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited March 2012
    @HookahCaterpillar -- I can imagine the scenario you depict might have some usefulness, though I am hard-pressed to imagine what it might be. Buddhism encourages us to wake up -- find out for ourselves and wake up.

    Whether we are awake or asleep, marginally awake or marginally asleep, in some imagined 7th lifetime or 2,457th lifetime, the Rice Krispies still get soggy if you leave them in a bowl of milk long enough.

    Maybe we're asleep and think we're awake. Maybe we're awake and think we're asleep. How many maybe's will we ponder before we get down to eating the Rice Krispies sitting in front of us on the kitchen table ... use what we've got to discover what we need to?

    Just my take.
  • WallyBWallyB
    It is said that after sotapanna - the first 'nirvana' - it is a maximum of 7 lives to complete liberation.
    in the original buddhist scriptures, to my knowledge, there are no accounts of sotapannas returning back to "this world". in the original buddhist teachings, the sotapannas acheive final enlightenment abiding in "other worlds", such as "heavenly worlds"

    as for the maximum of seven lives to complete liberation, i have done my best to examine the original Pali transcripts and have been unable to find the word "lives" there. the original scriptures state the practitioner that has made the "breakthrough" to sotapanna has a maximum of seven times of....something. despite the translators using the word "lives" in their translations, i have been unable to locate the word "lives" in the Pali

    therefore, using the subject matter found in the teaching, following logic, it is possible the original teaching stated the sotapanna has a maximum seven more "breakthroughs" until enlightenment

    keep in mind to be fully enlightened, there are 10 fetters to breakthrough. the sotapanna has made the breakthrough with 3 fetters therefore has 7 more fetters to breakthrough

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn13/sn13.001.than.html



  • HookahCaterpillarHookahCaterpillar
    @genkaku
    i agree - i think its the opposite of useful. its just something that enters my mind and i wanted to see what others thought
  • HookahCaterpillarHookahCaterpillar
    @WallyB
    thanks this is very interesting to note
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Now WallyB, he's useful. He's great for source material.
  • WallyBWallyB
    edited March 2012
    thanks

    Anathapindikovada was a sotapanna. in the Anathapindikovada Sutta, it seems to be reported after the died, he visited Buddha from a heavenly realm in order to offer respect to the Venerable Sariputta
    Anathapindika the householder died and reappeared in the Tusita heaven. Then Anathapindika the deva's son, in the far extreme of the night, his extreme radiance lighting up the entirety of Jeta's Grove, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, bowed down to him and stood to one side. As he was standing there, he addressed the Blessed One with this verse:

    As for Sariputta:
    any monk who has gone beyond,
    at best can only equal him
    in discernment, virtue, & calm.

    When this was said, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "Lord, that must have been Anathapindika the deva's son. Anathapindika the householder had supreme confidence in Ven. Sariputta."

    Very good, Ananda. Very good, to the extent that you have deduced what can be arrived at through logic. That was Anathapindika the deva's son, and no one else.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.143.than.html
    :)


  • DazzleDazzle

    Hi WB,

    How do you interpret that yourself ? Literally ?

    kind regards

    D.





  • DazzleDazzle
    @WallyB .... sorry for not quoting - I was refering to the post about Anathapindika.
  • WallyBWallyB
    edited March 2012
    dear Dazzle

    i am not inclined to 'interpret' as i can see little or no scope for interpretation

    :)
  • DazzleDazzle
    OK, thanks - I was just curious.

    :)
  • xabirxabir Veteran
    Stream enterers can still be born in human realm and that it has seven more lifetimes maximum seems supported by the suttas based on this comment on the then-Sotapanna Ananda:

    "Not so, Udayi, not so, Udayi! Should Ananda die without being fully liberated; he would be king of the gods seven times because of the purity of his heart, or be king of the Indian subcontinent seven times. But Udayi, Ananda will experience final liberation in this very life."

    — AN 3.80
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