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How is 'mind and body' ONE, But then when our body die we get reincarnated?

zenmystezenmyste Veteran
edited May 2012 in Buddhism Basics
Another thing i dont quite understand yet..

Buddhist text says mind and body are ONE..

But then if mind and body are one, then when our body dies, our mind should die aswell shouldnt it?
so what is it that gets 'reincarnated??

(this is the part where Buddhism gets abit deep for me and how can diving into this sort of thing help someone on their path?))

it still doesnt stop me from asking these questions because im genuinly interested.
So whats the Buddhist concept to this question??

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    If it was one, then how could we distinguish?

    If it were two, then how could we make it into one?

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    @zenmyste, I think this is considered one of the "Unanswerable Questions."
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Where is it stated that mind and body are identical? I do not know of this text. To comment it would be more useful if you provide a reference to the text you are referring to.

    Metta!
  • ArthurbodhiArthurbodhi Mars Veteran
    I only read that Body and Mind are mutually dependent.

    Anyway, mind is not reborn in the new life, if that happen, we will retain all memories and knowledge of the past lives. :)
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Anyway, mind is not reborn in the new life, if that happen, we will retain all memories and knowledge of the past lives. :)
    We also don't remember our early life as a baby, or even what we had for lunch a week ago, so this doesn't really prove anything.

    But may be a bit off topic.
  • ArthurbodhiArthurbodhi Mars Veteran
    Anyway, mind is not reborn in the new life, if that happen, we will retain all memories and knowledge of the past lives. :)
    We also don't remember our early life as a baby, or even what we had for lunch a week ago, so this doesn't really prove anything.

    But may be a bit off topic.
    I was joking around.

    But what you said maybe is a prove that we reborn all the time in this period of life. :)
    Still off-topic, sorry.
  • SabreSabre Veteran


    But what you said maybe is a prove that we reborn all the time in this period of life. :)
    Still off-topic, sorry.
    OK ! :D

    Metta!
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran

    so what is it that gets 'reincarnated??

    haw haw haw

    Great question, but you'd have to practice to get that answer.

    Metta,
    Abu
  • ozenozen
    If it was one, then how could we distinguish?
    By distinguishing elements of the one.
    If it were two, then how could we make it into one?
    By combining the two.


    Were you serious?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Because the self is neither mind or body. The skhandas are NOT the self according to Buddha. This is the cittamatra view of emptiness and the shravaka. In fact ALL views of Buddhism according to my book I read by a Lama, Progressive Stages of Meditation on emptiness.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    Another thing i dont quite understand yet..

    Buddhist text says mind and body are ONE..
    That's a common misconception, in my opinion. What the texts actually say is that they're mutually dependent (e.g., DN 15), which isn't the same as saying they're one and the same.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2012
    The same lama one above Jason stated in a spontaneous song, a doha, that thinking mind and body are two separate things leads to suffering. For example you might think, 'I am crazy', whereas that could be caused by a chemical imbalance. It is obvious mind and body are dependently originated. Food is a chemical. Drugs are a chemical. Neurotransmitters are chemical.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Reincarnation is only understood by a Buddha.

    For example, we don't say to victims of rape that their karma caused the rape. It would be adding insult to injury. Only a Buddha fully has full understanding of reincarnation.

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    edited May 2012
    If it was one, then how could we distinguish?
    By distinguishing elements of the one.
    If it were two, then how could we make it into one?
    By combining the two.


    Were you serious?
    edit:

    the mind makes both one and many.
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
  • ozenozen
    How can something be both one thing and at the same time two things?
    Well, the world looks like a single marble from a [relatively] short distance away, and yet it's our whole world! WOW, right?!
    The answer is the mind makes one and makes two. The mind also makes body and the mind also makes mind.

    There is no one thing. There is no two things. There was never a body, never was a mind.

    Just streams of experiencing appearing and disappearing.

    Just another thought.
    Being a Buddhist topic, I should point out that according to Buddhist everything, including body and mind, arise together. Buddhism is not Solipsist. Buddhist emptiness does not deny existence, only points out impermanence.
  • ozenozen
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
    It does something else.

    Are you being serious?
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
    It does something else.

    Are you being serious?
    What is something else?

    I'm very sincere in my inquiry.
  • ozenozen
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
    It does something else.

    Are you being serious?
    What is something else?

    I'm very sincere in my inquiry.
    Oh, I see, you believe that the mind only thinks in words. Lol
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
    It does something else.

    Are you being serious?
    What is something else?

    I'm very sincere in my inquiry.
    Oh, I see, you believe that the mind only thinks in words. Lol
    Actually I don't have a position on the mind or what it does, etc.
    Please don't put words into my mouth.

    I would like to hear your opinion, please.
  • ginabginab Veteran
    @zenmyste How do YOU think it works?
  • ozenozen
    what happens when the mind doesn't make one or many?
    It does something else.

    Are you being serious?
    What is something else?

    I'm very sincere in my inquiry.
    Oh, I see, you believe that the mind only thinks in words. Lol
    Actually I don't have a position on the mind or what it does, etc.
    Please don't put words into my mouth.

    I would like to hear your opinion, please.
    You want me to list everything that a mind may do? Common, at least try to be reasonable...
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    Mind and body has never been the same nor different, just a process of constant change.
    The king asked: "When someone is reborn, Venerable Nagasena, is he the same as the one who just died, or is he another?"

    The elder replied: "He is neither the same nor another."

    "Give me an illustration!"

    "What do you think, Great King? When you were a tiny infant, newly born and quite soft, were you then the same as the one who is now grown up?"

    "No, that infant was one, I, now grown up, am another."

    "If that is so, then, Great King, you have had no mother, no father, no reaching, no schooling! Do we then take it that there is one mother for the embryo in the first stage, another for the second stage, another for the third, another for the fourth, another for the baby, another for the grown-up man? Is the school-boy one person, and the one who has finished school another? Does one commit a crime, but the hands and feet of another are cut off?"

    "Certainly not! But what would you say, Reverend Sir, to all that?"

    The elder replied: "I was neither the tiny infant, newly born and quite soft, nor am I now the grown-up man; but all these are comprised in one unit depending on this very body."

    http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut045.htm
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2012
    Reincarnation is only understood by a Buddha.
    Incorrect.
    REBIRTH is only understood by a Buddha.

    Reincarnation is a completely different concept and a view held by tibetan buddhists, not Buddhists in general.
    For example, we don't say to victims of rape that their karma caused the rape. It would be adding insult to injury. Only a Buddha fully has full understanding of reincarnation.
    Kamma and Rebirth are the weft and warp of our garment of skandas...

    Reincarnation is a specific premise which is imposed onto a specific system of Buddhism.
    it is equally questionable, but in a different way.

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2012
    Kamma, rebirth, reincarnation, it's really all just ways of saying that there's a sense of continuity amidst the inconstancy of phenomena—that a causal process underlies our experience of the present moment, and our actions play a role in that experience. The point is that we're the owners of our actions and heir to their results; and our action are made in the present, so that's where we need to focus our attention. Or something like that. I don't know, it's past my bed time. :p
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Body and mind are separate :)
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Another thing i dont quite understand yet..

    Buddhist text says mind and body are ONE..


    Perhaps it would help if we could read that particular text to see the context, etc. :)

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Body and mind are separate :)
    And joined. ;)
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Mind resides in body, so when body dies, mind also dies - now if you are asking what happens after death and how rebirth actually happens , then my answer is - i do not know. Buddha said it does not need to be answered. In Hinduism, in Bhagwad Geeta, Lord Krishna says at death, Atman(or Consciousness) leaves the physical body and enters into another physical body. i think in Tibetian Buddhism, this consciousness is referred to as plain Buddhahood or plain Buddha consciousness - as i saw in the movie for Tibetian Book of the Dead.

    So there is no point in discussing over this matter, whether Self(or Atman or Consciousness) exists or not, as just discussing it will not lead us anywhere, rather direct experience will answer to all our queries.
  • TBRulhTBRulh New
    You said 'you're body' and 'your mind'. Who is this "you" who possesses both a thing called "mind" and a thing called "body".

    There is no you
    There is no body
    There is no mind

    "From the first, not a thing is."
    Hui-Neng

    Check out "The Zen Doctrine of No-Mind" by D. T. Suzuki

    These are just concepts. Weird ideas huh? I like it.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Sorry didn't read all the comments, so this may have already been said..

    Body and Mind are dropped in Zazen. Questions about what comes first... body or mind.. or whether they are mutually arising.. ...or what body is ...or what mind is. all that gets burned up in sheer practice... all that. I sit regularly with a Kwan Um group, and one thing that is repeated often is.. "it's not an understanding". That doesn't mean understanding isn't important. "Right" understanding is better that "wrong" understanding.. but there is also ... having settled.. letting go into sheer practice.

    That sheer practice is an unbinding at the source of those questions and answers. they are still ok to bat around, but nothing fundamental is hanging on an answer.

    This is not something "advanced".. it is just doing the practice and is a matter of course.


    ...and this is a Zen perspective.. it must be said. It doesn't trump the take of other traditions..
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    I would say that mind and body are one as long as the body is alive. At death, they separate.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited May 2012
    Buddhist text says mind and body are ONE..
    But then if mind and body are one, then when our body dies, our mind should die aswell shouldnt it?
    so what is it that gets 'reincarnated??


    Although these are fair questions on there own, they don't relate to each other.
    I don't think this statement appears in any Buddhist text before Dogen.
    One of Dogen's favourite saying was Ken zen ichi nyo....Body and mind are one.
    This was a description of his experience and understanding of zazen, underpinned his non duality teachings on practice-enlightenment but was never meant to be used as a theory on rebirth or reincarnation.

  • ozenozen
    I would say that mind and body are one as long as the body is alive. At death, they separate.
    I imagine they also separate when the mind dies?
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