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Question about karma.
hermitwin
Veteran
My cousin is not a buddhist. he is very kind and generous, a great guy.
he doesnt know much about buddhism. he has a small business and
he slaughters chickens everyday.
will he suffer bcos he kills hundreds of chickens?
he doesnt know much about buddhism. he has a small business and
he slaughters chickens everyday.
will he suffer bcos he kills hundreds of chickens?
0
Comments
Studying and understanding the four noble truths..may...help.
I know, I know, the argument can be made that that killing & eating of chickens is just our way of preventing the dinosaurs from launching an evolutionary counter offensive, but my attention span isn't long enough to work that one out.. It's more likely that every chicken is just another terrorist looking for the opportunity to clog some other overweight sods arteries. A revolution from the inside out.
Once again, try the 4 noble truths and pray that the pecking you heard on your door in the middle of the night, was just your imagination.
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In that case, try to create some good karma in return. Build a bird sanctuary for example. Plant trees etc.
In a general sense, from what you have said in your brief post, the information we have suggests your cousin is acting in a way which he finds ethical and consistent with good business practice and social responsibility. He subsequently will not develop suffering from his behaviour.
People who make comments about karma being a b@t#@ etc. need to have information about how the individual perceives their own behaviour and behaves towards others and in society, before they can make such judgements.
I would still watch out for that knock on the door though ... lol.
Still best to watch out for that knock on the door, especially if those scientists manage to breed that "chickensaurus"
Namaste
That just sounds daft to me. And then there's people who get killed by tsunamis - and what were the karmic causes for creating Thalidomide children; that's complex - I mean it affects both the Mother and the child?
There are also more subtle understandings of karma, but really, no-one (apart from a Buddha, so I'm taught) understands them all.
My own personal thoughts are that if your cousin looks after these chickens well, and kills them humanely, then he'll be fine.
And also, HH Dalai Lama is eating meat these days too!
If someone is experiencing the results of bad karma you should see it in their life. Like the meth addict photos. Are they bankrupt? Are they in jail? Does their family hate them? Do they have mental or physical suffering from their actions?
Some people would have you believe that a person can go on creating bad karma throughout their life while living happily and successfully only to be punished in a future life. To me that is a very strange belief and a misinterpretation of the concept.
I know hundreds of fishermen and many of them are hunters also. There does not seem to be any higher level of suffering among them than I would expect to see in any group of people. Other than the expected higher rate of workplace deaths and injurys associated with being at sea.
there are consequences.
what does your cousin think is the results of all killings, which
he carries out everyday?
But having said this, I do love the taste of chicken.
My personal opinion is that as the cousin is NOT Buddhist, such comment or teaching will not be either constructive or supportive.
It will appear patronising, preachy and holier-than-thou.
By all means give opinion, and by all means make observation.
But not in a condemnatory, critical or all-knowing kind of way.
The guy is practising Wrong Livelihood.
Indubitably.
nobody here does that, because we know what wrong livelihood is.
(A long time ago, on esangha a young chef was concerned that as part of his duties he had to shuck oysters and prepare shellfish for the menu.
The advice he received was to speak to his employer about his dilemma, and fortunately, his employer was extremely sympathetic and excused him that task, but gave him another to keep his workload equal.... But he was a young Buddhist, and knew that he could not perform the task....)
The OP's cousin is clearly NOT Buddhist, and as such, speaking to him in a way that would impose guilt upon his shoulders, would not be skilful, considerate or compassionate.
Sure, chickens need, deserve and have as much right to compassion as any person.
But we must also take measure of how we apply things in life..
Federica has explained it well above.
Unless his cousin specifically asked him, there is no reason why it is appropriate to start talking about karma.
If anything I would suggest he could tell him about his interest in Buddhism and the noble eightfold path.
Everything has a consequence.
I misunderstood the point of your post in that case, but my reasoning still stands, and it would with any situation where somebody who is NOT Buddhist may be acting and going against conventional Buddhist thought.
We cannot presume to appraise their actions and give them our opinion from a Buddhist viewpoint, if Buddhism means nothing to them.
And if I ate chicken I might ponder the consequences of my behaviour.
The important point about karma is that we can not know the exact workings and it is not up to us to contemplate how others will suffer.
Hermitwin asked if we thought his cousin would suffer because of his actions. I maintain that from the information we have it seems to me his cousin is not acting against his own moral code and understanding in a way that will lead him to conflict with himself or society - he is not a Buddhist practitioner.
Hermitwin is clearly asking because he is concerned about his cousin and then asked if he should mention karma to his cousin, which is why I mentioned karma.
I too have this kind of moral problem. My cousin owns a house with his mom and I moved in to rent it from them. I get a good deal and they know it's taken care of since neither of them live close anymore.
The last tenants left owing a few thousand and we were stuck with the worst cockroach infestation I've ever heard of. I had to kill many living beings and it hurts.
i think i know what to do.
if the topic comes up, i will broach it, otherwise i will just avoid the topic.
in any case, i will handle it like 'porcupines making love' , to quote a famous evangelical preacher.
You could study up on the chicken raising & slaughter industry.
Then you could consider if becoming a vegetarian made sense for you.
If you do decide to become a vegetarian, you could share why you decided to become a vegetarian with your cousin. Remember that you becoming a vegetarian is a minor inconvenience where as for your cousin it would be a career loss. Your silence may keep the peace for you but only at your cousins eventual expense.
You know, when I explain the Thai Buddhist belief (of most people), that it's okay if you eat meat as long as it was not killed specifically for you, they just laugh (usually out loud).
it is in accordance with the suttas. buddha ate meat and allows his monks to eat meat.
also, almost every thai who is not a christian or muslim will be a buddhist.
dont expect the average thai buddhist to be a seriuos practising buddhist.
it is no different from the average muslim or christian.
in fact, there are many fake thai buddhist monks who just want to make a quick buck.
However, in their mind they are serious Buddhists. And I would not say that there are "many" fake Thai Buddhist monks.
i cant accept the argument the if the animals are treated well, then its ok.
america is the only advanced country that still have capital punishment.
if i let a prisoner stay in a 5star hotel prior to his executuion, will that make the killing ok?
the sale of buddhist amulets is a thriving industry .
many monks are involved.
would you call these monks fake monks?
For the most part, there are two places that Buddhist amulets are sold in Thailand. One is along the street by lay hawkers. The other is in temples. Even in temples, it is not usually a monk selling the amulets. But when that does happen, the money goes to the temple, not the monk, so no, they are not fake monks.
The occasional fake monk is usually arrested and tried by the government, and is usually severely punished.
My daughter also made an independant decision to become lacto-ovo vegetarian at about 10 years of age and then vegan at about 12. Many have said I influenced her - I agree, she knew that it was possible to eat a healthy vegan diet because of me and it was a seemless transition due to me living in the same houseand her eating meals with me.
I have found the best way is by example.
I do not kid myself that I am able to fulfill the aim of not killing though by eating a predominately vegan diet, even with having preference for organic foods and avoiding certain foods ... we can do our best, that is all.
a monk who engages in activities expressly forbidden by the buddha
is a fake monk to me.
so, a monk that provides amulets is a fake monk to me.
I suspect not to many thais.
with no negative consequences.
the 9/11 terrorists' intention was to strike at 'the great satan/USA'
and go to heaven. the intention was "good", but nobody will argue that
they will not face negative consequences.
From speaking with individuals who have gone to go war to fight for their country
( Australia where I live ), mostly Vietnam veterans, they were motivated by nationalism and keeping their home country safe and free as they understood it at the time. By the time many came home, lots of other Australian citizens did not share this idea and sentiment towards the war and the soldiers who went.
Although I have probably visited over a 1,000 Buddhist temples, and have seen temples with (for wont of a better term) religious shops with various amulets, Buddhist books, Buddha statues, etc., I have never seen monks selling the materials. It was always a lay person. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I have just never seen it.
And, there you go, deciding who is a "real" Buddhist, something this (in my view) is not appropriate.
I find discovering my own motivations, let alone those of others, very challengeing as motivations are immensely complex and multi- factorial, plus our ingrained habits, prejudices and areas of ignorance make any kind of clarity and simple understandings inadequate, in my opinion.
Fortunately, being able to begin and to continue with my practice has not been reliant on judging of mine or anyone elses motivations.
But dwelling on consequences is not skillful either. There is no cosmic scorecard, it's more dynamic than that. Karma's not mysterious either, in lucid moments we see it operating quite clearly, not only when we get enlightened, like that sinking feeling one gets when one has been coasting along enjoying oneself and suddenly realises how others have been let down. It isn't something we have to understand exactly, it's more about learning to have the courage to be mindful of our actions and their effects on other beings.
We suffer because we don't realise how deeply we care about others. The question is always about what to do now, to make things better. And that's a question for us to answer about our own lives first, then our effect on and advice to others weaves into the fabric of our karma.
Agreed. Clockwork karma is too neat and tidy and, oddly, as anthropocentric as a factory farm. It also carries a wiff of schadenfreude. Causality is murky ..generally what goes around comes around, and we create worlds we carry around . I have instant karmic fruit any time I act out stupidly and cause harm.. instant.. right there... it is living with having done it.
" maybe, and he has to live with it now ".
What I find so limiting about hindsight knowledge is that rarely are we in exactly the same situation again to have the benefit of knowing exactly how to act. Sometimes I would love to have the belief of black and white, right and wrong that some claim to have - just not possible in reality, I know, but sometimes it looks good -lol.
so i do have some Thai blood flowing thru my veins.