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Time spent in Meditation

edited September 2012 in Meditation
Hi- a couple of quick questions about meditation:

First: I was also curious about what your typical mediation "schedule" is if you have one?
If you meditate "on demand", how often does that end up being?

Second: If you stop for a week or so, do find you are more monkey-minded? Is it hard to get back, or is it more nourishing? What has been the effect of having taken a "break", and what is the point one should be concerned about losing some of the space they had gained if they were practicing fairly regularly?

Thanks so much!

Comments

  • I'm interested to know the answers to these questions also. One thought that came to my mind is that, if stopping meditation did not affect the mind of those who meditate regularly, then how would one argue the benefits of meditation?
  • @Lee82: It could be like reading... every book you read adds to who you are. You won't forget how to read once your reach a certain level and had clocked a certain amount of time already. But I suspect it's more like exercise.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I meditate every morning for about a half hour. I might throw in a 5-10 minute meditation as well, if I feel the need to collect myself or regain patience or whatever, or if I'm feeling stressed out.

    Do I notice when i don't do it? Yes. My entire practice falls apart when I don't meditate because it sets the stage for how I start my day. I have never noticed anything beneficial in taking a break, though others have different experience I'm sure. I wouldn't drop dead if I didn't meditate, I do know people who've had surgery and been in such drug hazes they couldn't meditate, and they came out of that no worse for the wear in their practice. i think it just depends on the intention. If you feel the need to take a break, then you might be viewing meditation as an obligation, like going to church. Once you do it for a while, and you notice the benefits, it becomes as necessary as anything else your body needs to function optimally. If for some reason I miss meditation, I notice the effects of that before I notice the effects of not getting enough sleep or skipping a meal. It does happen on occasion but never as a planned break. I also notice when I miss my Sangha meetings, I find they have a very grounding effect on my entire week much the same as daily meditation grounds me in practice for the day.
    person
  • I also find skipping meditation, or taking a break throws my days way out of kilter.
    The monkey-mind goes ape, so to speak.

    I meditate for about 20-25 minutes every morning, also for short 5 min or so times when I feel the need to slow/calm down when things are getting too nuts.
    person
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    1. Depends on my mood. From 10 minutes to...don't know. I don't time my sessions. I let the body ( or the mind ) say 'stop'.

    2. I can say that I kinda stopped meditating for a year and I saw that I become lazier , more chaotic, more angry...but, I still maintained focus and calm when the situation demanded it.
  • Thank you all for responses. I have had a tougher time carving out the time from schedule... I try to meditate regularly, but have never done so daily. In the morning I have to set my alarm and wake up before my kids, which is tough since they aren't always consistent, but that usually means well before 6 AM.... at night I have fallen asleep with my glasses & day clothes on, on top of the blankets... so it's sometimes hard to carve the time out then. I try during naptime, but sometimes naptime never comes.
    I grab it where I can get it, but can usually get in 4-6x a week any way, including 1 session every couple of weeks at my Sangha.

    I had a great summer of very regular meditation- almost daily without fail. I saw great benefits. The back to school schedule and family obligations over the last 2 weeks has cut into my cushion time, and I haven't meditated for almost a week... and I already find myself feeling a little mushy, like I'm standing too close to everything and everyone, if that makes sense.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited September 2012
    I find I enjoy myself less when I go without meditating. But the problem is that you are feeling good and you think 'oh I'll just enjoy this by reading, computer games, smoking tobacco, drinking tea and coffee.' So it's neurosis. In reality when I meditate I enjoy all of those things more because there is a deep release of stress when I meditate.

    When I am on top of my game I meditate 2 hours maybe though maybe one day 30 min and one day 2 hours and one day 3.5 hours.

    When I let it go I meditate zero, but I almost always keep a candle lit on my shrine and almost always practice daily mindfulness at least part of the day. When I feel sunshine on me I let my awareness go into the sensation and feel if it is in my head or my heart or in the sun or in the warm skin. Where is the sensation? Daily awareness like that. When I get depressed because of my psychotic voices I remember the refuge and call in my heart for my lama to help me should she have enough time and energy; I believe my lama herself perhaps, or maybe just her lineage (padmasambhava, buddha, etc) has power to help and draw me into the path.

    I feel tight and craving and narrow when I don't meditate. Like I am trying to stay together with the voices (above) and whatever I do isn't enough. Of course there are always breaks of sunshine even when you don't meditate. That is the nature of the heart, to be sane and whole. It will always call us back.
    PrairieGhost
  • i try and atlease get one session a day but usually i try best i can to do some mindful breathing on the train on my way and way bk from work wuite nice if train is packed u can image its not lol then i have one or two sessions when i get home for at max up to an hour i do enjoy guided meditations or with meditation music. I have only really started so i havent had a major break yet, Also i try mindful eating for my evening meal when i dont have any time constraints.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    jessie70 said:

    Second: If you stop for a week or so, do find you are more monkey-minded? Is it hard to get back, or is it more nourishing?

    I missed a week recently and it seemed to be OK - but getting back into the regular practice has been a struggle!
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I have 3 kids, so I can relate. 2 of mine are older (15 and 10) so they sleep in until I wake them up. My youngest though just turned 4 and the concept of having quiet time, or break time, is something he's started to grasp. he can only take so much stimulation, so I can pretty dependably assume he's going to take some quiet time in his room, and I take advantage of that. He's also not an early riser (he's still in bed right now, in fact, and it's almost 9:30 here). So as long as I awake in time to meditate before my kids get up at 6:40, I'm ok. But even in that case, it took a lot of adjusting for me to wake up 40 minutes earlier just to get up and sit in the dark. Especially in the winter when it's so darn cold! It also meant giving up a little alone time with my husband at night, to go to bed a little bit earlier. But, overall the benefits to myself extend to the family and because of that they want to know the "trick" to meditation as well. Even the 4 year old will sit on a couch pillow for a few minutes, although at this point he is just mimicking and so far has not seemed to gain any understanding/obvious benefit. But I do think it's important to teach kids how to calm themselves, how to lower their so-intense energy to help calm the environment around them, too.

    So, what I'm saying is, if you benefit from meditation, then you'll have to make a choice of going to bed earlier to get up earlier (I know with really young kids it's not so simple as that, lol) and also, it wouldn't hurt to involve them in short day time meditations. Kids naturally are very high energy and without learning how to corral it, they can throw the entire family off kilter by running like lunatics ;)
    jessie70
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    Being retired I have the luxury of free time. My morning sitting is 45 minutes, and my night sitting (just before going to be for the night) is 30-ish.
  • cozcoz Explorer
    good question
    i dont look a meditation like a runner looks a running if they can run ten miles
    but take a week off then they can only run 5 miles they need to get back to the 10
    we meditate on our learning and our understanding our mindfulness our journy
    to becoming enlightened its not as thou when we meditate we can float 10 inches off the ground and if we stop for a bit we can only float 5 inches
    its more like as we meditate we fill the empty cup but what goes in never comes out
    i meditate every day to get my focus right but then i also meditate on the dharma
    but if i miss a day or 2 there is no loss to what has already been understood
    peace and joy
    Coz
    jessie70
  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    edited September 2012
    I figure anything is better than nothing. I meditate less than I would like to, especially as I have reaped the benefits in the past... But two minutes once a week is better than no minutes a week. And say I live until I'm 90, two minutes a week for the next 66 years is like 115 hours altogether.

    That's not bad all things considered, and definitely better than nothing... :)
    jessie70
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    jessie70 said:



    Second: If you stop for a week or so, do find you are more monkey-minded?

    Yes
    Is it hard to get back, or is it more nourishing?
    The more time you spend away from it, the harder it is to get back has been my experience.
    should be concerned about losing some of the space they had gained if they were practicing fairly regularly?
    Yes, you can lose what you gained.

    Dhammapada 282. Acharya Buddharakkhita translation:

    "Wisdom springs from meditation; without meditation wisdom wanes. Having known these two paths of progress and decline, let a man so conduct himself that his wisdom may increase."



    jessie70
  • Being new to Buddhism as I am, I've done very little meditating. However, based on what I've read here, I'm kind of afraid to now. It seems like something you end up dependent on like caffeine, and without it, you're a mess.

    It's quite unnerving to me now. Someone needs to set me straight here lol.
    jessie70
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    edited September 2012
    @Captain_America the point is to get it to be a habit (even when we aren't sitting in meditation)... like anything else we do in our lives. If you practice something enough, it becomes a habit. If we are relying on it to keep us calm or collected, then we are clinging to it (something advised against). That being said, its better to be dependent on meditation than drugs or alcohol. We are all at different levels in our practice. Start meditating and see how it fits. Then if things arise come back and ask more questions :).
    jessie70
  • edited September 2012
    Thanks everyone! @Captain_America- that is too funny. I don't think it's like caffeine, because even though I'm having withdrawals, in a sense, I'm functioning over-all at a slightly higher level of awareness for having meditated before (supporting @coz's comparison of meditation to filling a cup.) But I think the liquid *will* evaporate eventually if I leave it out too long- in other words, the filled cup needs to be filled regularly, too (which, I think is what @tmottes and @seeker242.

    All of the comments seem to be consistent- one needs to keep meditating, less is better than not-at-all, you won't lose the benefits *immediately*. I think 1 week is as long as I can go, so I will heed @karasti's advice - to carve that time out!

    @karasti- thanks for your post & for getting just how hard it is to make that time-and in my house, even the little alter area I have set up isn't save from toys and stuff. The other day I moved my cushion and found most of Mr. Potato head's parts. Just sayin'.
    coz
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited September 2012
    it is more so a reminder for me. Most people here will tell you that at times, even when you've been doing really well with everything (practicing the 8 fold path and all that comes with it) you have times, and days, and people, and situations will arise that challenge your practice. For me, returning to meditation helps me to go back to practicing instead of going off half cocked, getting angry, yelling, and all around dealing with situations in a bad way.

    I have to eat to stay healthy. I have to sleep to stay healthy. I have to exercise to keep my mind and body healthy. And I have to meditate to stay mentally clear and healthy .All those things have an equal place in my life. Will I immediately die if any one of those isn't present for a time? No. But then bad things happen if too much time passes and you do not give due attention to those areas.

    I'm a runner, and right now, I cannot run due to a foot problem. It's possible I will not be able to run for a year. Does that mean in a year I can't put on my shoes and run? Of course not. Does it mean I'll suffer horribly because I can't run? No. But it does mean that a year from now when I put on my running shoes and go out the door, I'll be in a very different place than if I went running today. Meditation is much the same for me. But every person is different. For me it's not a fear of being monkey minded that keeps me going back to meditation. But I notice profound differences in my ability to assimilate the teachings when I do not meditate. I can read them, and listen to them, and understand them. But I have a much, much harder time putting them into practice. Just like taking an algebra test. I can listen to the teacher talk, and I can take notes and understand, but without practice, I'm not going to pass the class.
    amandathetexanjessie70
  • @karatsti- what a clear description and great way of looking at it.

    I tend to stick better with any healthful practice - be it exercise or clean, mindful eating or meditation if they are motivated by the gains as opposed to out of fear. Good point!
  • karasti said:

    ...
    I'm a runner, and right now, I cannot run due to a foot problem...

    Plantar fasciitis, by any chance? If so, there is a really good exercise for it.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    @kowtaaia It's kind of a long story, but it is a genetic structural deformity that has lead to joint problems in the ball of my foot. Right now I'm in particular shoes and orthotics to see if they help before they can determine what type of surgery will best suit the problem. If the shoes and orthotics "work" then I can have surgery to fix the problem, and wear the shoes/orthotics to hopefully prevent the problem from reoccurring. Basically instead of flexing, the entire foot, from the ball to the tips of the toes totally locks up and causes all the joints to smash into each other, dragging the bones and ligaments out of alignment. So surgery is the only thing that'll actually fix the problem, unfortunately :(
  • Have you tried Pose running?
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I have, actually, and I really enjoy it. My more recent foray back into Buddhism came from reading a book called "Zen and the Art of Running" which is where i learned about Pose. If the problem was only in running, it would be easier to deal with. But the problem persists when I do any activity to the point I can't enjoy them at all, including yoga, skiing, snowsnoeing, rollerblading, hiking, etc. I am supposed to take my kids to Florida on vacation late next spring and with my foot the way it is I won't enjoy the trip at all, plus it leaves my foot prone to arthritis in the future.
  • Sorry to hear that, karasti. I hope the orhotics and surgery help you.
  • karasti said:

    I have, actually, and I really enjoy it. My more recent foray back into Buddhism came from reading a book called "Zen and the Art of Running" which is where i learned about Pose. If the problem was only in running, it would be easier to deal with. But the problem persists when I do any activity to the point I can't enjoy them at all, including yoga, skiing, snowsnoeing, rollerblading, hiking, etc. I am supposed to take my kids to Florida on vacation late next spring and with my foot the way it is I won't enjoy the trip at all, plus it leaves my foot prone to arthritis in the future.

    Understood, but snowshoeing? :) Do you know what the operation involves?
    Also, no more heel to toe, ever!
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    lol thankfully I have almost always had a natural midfoot strike, but have changed it to forefront...but that's what causes so much pain in my foot now, too, lol. I snowshoe bcause it's one of the few ways to exercise where I live in the winter and because I can walk out my backdoor and be on a lake, so it's fast, easy and basically free. If you don't find something you enjoy in the winter, you go crazy, because we have snow on the ground 6 months a year, sometimes more, lol.

    The surgery will be similar to a bunion surgery, as they'll have to realign the bones in my first 2 toes and the ligaments, as well as some issue with the ligament farther up on the top of my foot.

    btw, I fully recommend Zen and the Art of Running to anyone who works out, or even walks. It has a lot of good information about what basically amounts to ask walking meditation and making the best use of your surroundings. I was quite surprised how much use I got from it.
  • The point about snowshoeing is that it lends itself naturally to the Pose technique. Check it out.

    Hopefully, all goes well concerning the operation. It's too bad that there isn't a non invasive alternative.

    The guy taking the picture is wearing Yukon Charlie Kodiak 930's. :)

    Photobucket
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited September 2012

    Being new to Buddhism as I am, I've done very little meditating. However, based on what I've read here, I'm kind of afraid to now. It seems like something you end up dependent on like caffeine, and without it, you're a mess.

    It's quite unnerving to me now. Someone needs to set me straight here lol.

    As for formal sitting meditation:
    Most Western Buddhists meditate regularly, and that's good.
    Some Western Buddhists meditate rarely - if at all, and that's OK.
    Many Eastern/Asian Buddhists do not meditate regularly, and that's OK too.

    Please don't be discouraged from getting deeper and more committed into Buddhism based solely on if you want to / don't want to / like to/ need to meditate.
    Your 'fear' isn't that ridiculous, as I have known people who became very attached to their meditation, and not in a good way. It may not happen that often (honestly, I really don't know if it does or not) but it can become quite the obsession.

    Meditation is a fantastic tool, but there is no one single way to do it, nor specific hourly requirements. Do it (or not) as often as you can - comfortably and without stressing over it. If a person is going to have a meltdown whenever they miss a sit, are they really gaining anything from it?
    Anyway, try as many different methods as you need to. Don't get too hung up if it takes a while to figure out what style and frequency works best for you.

    Peace
    Jeffrey
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    Whenever I stop for a little while and try to begin again, I always experience some self-resistance. After some self-coaxing I struggle through begining again, but finally do. There is an initial sense of "time lost" when I begin again, but after a little stretching of my faculties, it comes back to what it always was: Me, noticing my thoughts. Letting go. And begining again. Me. noticing my thoughts. Letting go. And begining again. Me, noticing..... well I guess you get the picture. :)
  • Being new to Buddhism as I am, I've done very little meditating. However, based on what I've read here, I'm kind of afraid to now. It seems like something you end up dependent on like caffeine, and without it, you're a mess.

    It's quite unnerving to me now. Someone needs to set me straight here lol.

    @Captain_America, it's not that I am dependent on it for the outcome of my days. It may have sounded that way in my post.
    I find that starting the day with a calm, peaceful, more focused mind makes things easier to deal with and the silly little things are just that, silly little things.
    But that's just my experience.

    Never hurts to try something that really can't do you any harm.
  • I have no schedule for my meditation, I do it when I feel like doing it. Do I feel more monkey minded when I have bigger gaps in between, that I cannot answer as I have only recently got back into the cusion dealio but with a new perceptive of it.

    I was reading something that Ajahn Sumedho had writting in the book 'The Way It Is'. He was talking about how in the first few months he was in robes he would spend a lot of time in his hut in Thailand and meditate a lot (formally sitting). He would see lights, have experiences of ecstasy and great joy. He later moved to Ajahn Chahs temple, Wat Pah Phong where he was forced to do the daily rounds of collecting the food in the morning as he was one of the healthy young monks. He then had the meal with everyone else and then of course chores followed. This made him very tired and he thought back to those amazing experiences in his hut, he aspired to have them again and was suffering. He finally said to Ajahn Chah, "I cannot meditate here." Ajahn Chah laughed at him and said to everyone "Young Sumedho cannot meditate here." After some years he was forced to learn the importance of meditating in every day life, this is where the fruits of meditation can be actually used. How could one was the dishes in sheer ecstasy? And even if you aspire to sit down on that cushion and see great lights and colours, you will only eventually suffer as if you pick up the good the bad will eventually follow anyway, it is about being realistic and applying the Dhamma to everyday life.
    MaryAnne
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    That's exactly the point I was trying to make :) That meditation makes it much easier for me to apply what I am learning to every day life. It reminds me a lot of studying math, like I said. You can read and read and read but no amount of reading will get you to learn math if you don't practice and apply it. I better apply Buddhist teachings to my every day life when I meditate. They just go hand in hand. Another analogy that is true for me, is exercise and healthy diet. If I skimp on my exercise, my diet falls apart, too and vice versa. The 2 compliment each other, and while I can do one without the other, it's much easier to pair them up :) For me, anyhow.
    jessie70
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    It seems like something you end up dependent on like caffeine, and without it, you're a mess.

    I'd use the analogy of getting physically fit - we feel better when we exercise regularly, and if we stop exercising then sooner or later we'll notice a difference.
  • I meditate every morning after waking up and the session can be anywhere from ten minutes to one hour. I meditate again in the evening around sunset and for the same length of time. I may throw in a session during the day when time is available. Since I have done this practice for the past five years consistently I cannot comment on if I notice any difference when I haven't meditated, but I have notice a profound difference in my insight when I have been able to meditate more...

    I am working at making everything I do a meditation, by concentrating on each task and watching the emotions and thoughts that arise. Truly a work in practice...
    lobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    I_AM_THAT said:

    I am working at making everything I do a meditation, by concentrating on each task and watching the emotions and thoughts that arise. Truly a work in practice...

    It does seem that a regular sitting practice supports mindfulness off the cushion.
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