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a question of lineage

genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
edited October 2012 in Buddhism Today
The appended correspondence (shimanoarchive.com/PDFs/20121021_Chayat_Shore.pdf) between Shinge Sherry Chayat 'Roshi' and Jeff Shore, a professor at Hanazono University and a 30-year Zen student/teacher, appeared in the Shimano Archive this morning. Eido Shimano is Sherry's teacher and the man who granted her succession. He is also a man whose sexual and financial depredations over the years have sown egregious sorrow.

In the correspondence, Sherry asks Jeff to verify or discount the authenticity of Eido Shimano's position within the Rinzai Zen lineage of Soen Nakagawa Roshi. Shore replies in various ways, among them:

At any rate, I trust you are really serious about this, Sherry.

If so, then you realize that there are no legitimate "successors" to Eido, and that their role as teachers of Rinzai Zen is null and void.

No hemming and hawing here.

Without this, we cannot even begin.

Lineage in Zen Buddhism (and elsewhere) is taken with a sometimes-insufferable seriousness. To be part of the written lineage is to gain stature and legitimacy. To lack such a connection is to devolve into and rely on the wiles of charlatanism and cult-dom.

Sherry makes it clear in her words that she plans to hem and haw, to ask, as in the old Zen metaphor, who it was who shot the arrow that now pierces her breast ... what family does the shooter belong to, what bird provided the feathers on the arrow, what wood is the arrow made of ...? Sherry speaks of her wish for "integrity" and in the same breath flees that integrity as a wounded man might wish to flee the arrow in his chest.

The correspondence is informative for anyone interested in and perhaps devoted to a Buddhist practice.

Comments

  • Lineage in Zen Buddhism really develops out of Confucianism—it's a cultural thing. There is no such lineage in the Nikayas or in Mahayana. In fact, according to the Avatamsaka Sutra great disciples like Mahakasyapa “were not capable of perpetuating the lineage of Buddhas.” (One wonders how this particular section of the Gandavyuha chapter of the Avatamsaka Sutra has gone unnoticed by Zenists for so long?)
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Thanks @Songhill. I'm not sure that anyone needs the Avatamsaka Sutra to pose a few common-sensical questions about lineage, whether literal or airy-fairy. This is not to dismiss the sutra ... just sayin'. :)
    andyrobyn
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    As a long time Zen student, the longer I meditate, the less I understand standing on lineage. The truth seems to stand quite freely, unobstructed by anyones belief or doubt in it. The teacher is only a directional compass. Identifying someone or a lineage as an actual representation of the truth partakes of a faith/devotional practise which just invites these forms of attachments issues. I think if teachers taught students with faith/ devotional leanings to apply them towards their meditation and off the spiritual furniture, then both teachers and lineages might remain just a bit less ego bound.




    lobster
  • Lineage is just the teacher approving the student to teach. Is there something more to it than that?

    There are three teachings in Buddhism by some account:

    Recognition of impermanence to overcome attachment to this life
    Recognition of suffering to overcome attachment to sensual pleasure
    Recognition of love to overcome attachment to peace

    The guru points out to the student the nature of their mind and these three marks and that is the stamp of a dharma teaching to have the three dharma seals.
    seeker242
  • The problem with lineage is the lineage holder might believe that he or she is a Buddha which then becomes a matter of hubris.

    The American Zen master Zentatsu Richard Baker, the Dharma Successor of Soto Zen master Shunryu Suzuki, said after he was transmitted by Suzuki, ”[Y]ou are no longer a Buddhist; what you do is Buddhism” (Michael Downing, Shoes Outside the Door, p. 19).

    Well, what any lineage holder does is not always Buddhism and, in fact, may go against the teachings of the Buddha. Let the student beware.
    Jeffrey
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    edited October 2012
    These Zen-titles are overrated. That is easy for me to say; I don’t have one and I am not in the race for one either. But a dialogue like this shows how important the idea of lineage is for many (most?) Zen-Buddhists.

    Both Sherry and Shore – each in their way – seam to attach a lot of meaning to the formal authenticity of Shimano’s (and as a result Sherry’s) title.
    What matters though, is (obviously?) not the formal title but the real depth of their realization -or lack thereof.
    And when a person does have some realization, how can they make a big deal out of formal titles?
    how
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2012
    There is also a sense of celebration that beings can join together to learn the dharma. And the living connections are alive dharma as opposed to frozen in print.

    Joy in meeting a teacher can stimulate metta.
    lobster
  • Celebration of the past is a frozen, status qualification. It has to develop, enable and promote a connection to the four immeasurables otherwise we are better off as rhinoceros

    In the words of the maitreya, (not yet generally available as a lineage) . . .
    "Drop it"

    Clinging anyone? :banghead:
  • Jeffery:
    There is also a sense of celebration that beings can join together to learn the dharma. And the living connections are alive dharma as opposed to frozen in print.
    Dharma centers are by no mean perfect; nor can one really get a first rate understanding of what Buddhism is really about just by merely showing up. For example, in a Vietnamese Dharma center some people just go along with the program. A few really study the Dharma. They might listen to a commentary on the Avatamsaka Sutra on a CD, or ask the monk more profound questions. But these practitioners are rare.

    Dharma centers are not without politics and sex (I won't go into the details). They're okay if you are looking for people to 'hang' with but for serious Dharma, a lot more is required — and a lot of that depends on you. Do you really what to see what the Buddha saw?
  • This brings up an important topic. The obsessive-compulsive practice of making lineage the all-important definition of a proper Zen teacher is both alien to Western people and damaging to the institution. When I first read about Zen, the assumption that Dharma Transmission protected the purity of Zen seemed logical. A Master would have absolute authority over the temple, the students and money, because he was enlightened and therefore wise and infallible. He would in turn diligently seek out those special people or at least recognize the students who also "passed the gateless gate" and identify them to the world as worthy to pass on the Dharma Crown. Thus through the centuries, the Transmission Outside of Sutras would remain pure.

    That is the myth, and a lot of Zen students buy into it. As @Songhill says, for serious Dharma, a lot more is required. The titles handed out by the particular schools of Buddhism are more about running an organized institution than identifying the Buddhas of the world. It only works if people remain unaware of how flawed it is so they can continue to blind themselves to the fact that their Roshi and his teacher and the one before him were just ordinary people, some good and some bad.

    It was always about appearances and control of the institution. At any one time, the janitor cleaning the toilets might be the only person in the entire temple to penetrate the Dharma, but you can bet it's the monk sitting next to the Master who's going to get the title next. Even though the myth tries to claim otherwise.

    Being slave to lineage is as bad as being slave to what the ancient monks wrote in the sutras.
    lobster
  • PatrPatr Veteran
    Think it cuts both ways, in Chinese Mahayana, theres no 'transmission', only teachings. Did the Buddha say " Oh yeah, these are secret teachings, open only to the initiated and members". No, all he taught was for everyone, provided you understood it.

    Nowadays there are too many self proclaimed masters, which one has to ask for accreditation. Beware of false masters......

    In the Buddha's original Dharma, there are no 'members only' teachings, secret transmissions, empowerment, initiation, exalted Guru who can do no wrong. Only the Dharma and the practitioner. Full stop.
  • Patr said:

    Think it cuts both ways, in Chinese Mahayana, theres no 'transmission', only teachings. Did the Buddha say " Oh yeah, these are secret teachings, open only to the initiated and members". No, all he taught was for everyone, provided you understood it.

    Nowadays there are too many self proclaimed masters, which one has to ask for accreditation. Beware of false masters......

    In the Buddha's original Dharma, there are no 'members only' teachings, secret transmissions, empowerment, initiation, exalted Guru who can do no wrong. Only the Dharma and the practitioner. Full stop.

    All of which may be true of Zen and Chinese Mahayana. I wouldn't know.
    But the OP does not specify Zen or any other Buddhist tradition..and the above is most definitely NOT true of the Vajrayana including Dzogchen.
    You will find no one practising and/or teaching within that tradition that will not tell you that transmission from a Guru is anything other than essential.
    This does not of course disqualify you from Buddhadharma.
    It may mean that the Vajrayana is not your thing.
  • Cinorjer:

    In Soto Zen, most followers are unaware that Dogen’s succession certificate, which he allegedly received from his teacher, Ju-ching, is believed to be a forgery (Steven Heine, Did Dogen Go to China?, 85n, 260).

    There have been numerous breaks in the so-called line of transmission, and attempts to mend it even by forgery and by creating new lines of transmission. There is, of course, a Mind to Mind transmission. We are intrinsically this Mind (or Buddha-nature) but don't recognize it in the world we perceive and live in. When we do finally recognize it, this is the true, authentic transmission. It is unmistakable. It is self-affirming.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    Patr said:


    In the Buddha's original Dharma, there are no 'members only' teachings, secret transmissions, empowerment, initiation, exalted Guru who can do no wrong. Only the Dharma and the practitioner. Full stop.

    My understanding is that the 'original' Dharma (if we can ever be sure of such a thing) deals only with suffering and the cessation of suffering.

    There were many other facets to Buddha's enlightenment than just a transmission on suffering and its cessation - Buddha at least claimed to be privy - in that sense, there are 'members only' teachings, secret transmission and empowerment - even if only for a membership of 1 (unless he did pass these on in some form even if it was esoteric).

    I am not aware of the exalted Buddha doing 'wrong'... the office of master extends from the original master - of course masters are also practitioners - perhaps more experienced along a certain path than others.


  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    And then there is what I think of as the doctors-lawyers-cops-and-priests syndrome, i.e. professions in which people arrive seeking counsel and saying, sometimes in great anguish, "be my god." Hearing such pleas often enough can encourage a belief in the statement implicit in the plea ... I am god.

    All I can think is that I'm glad I'm not a doctor, lawyer, cop or priest and as a result don't have to confront that problem... or at least not in that particular format.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited October 2012
    As a doctor I don't have a choice. I have to deal with that situation as skillfully as I can.
    Sometimes I manage to, sometimes I dont.
    That same tendency though can be used for good if one understands the transference/countertransference process.
    But its not easy.
    It would be much easier to duck it.
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    edited October 2012
    genkaku said:

    And then there is what I think of as the doctors-lawyers-cops-and-priests syndrome, i.e. professions in which people arrive seeking counsel and saying, sometimes in great anguish, "be my god." Hearing such pleas often enough can encourage a belief in the statement implicit in the plea ... I am god

    Can that analogy be drawn also to the folk who come to forums seeking help/councel? The barrage of info and advice they receive might also make a forum (along with some of its members) seem "god-like" in their "wisdom."

    Just thinking aloud.....
    Patr
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