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Are psychopaths good people?
School shooters and the like ... are they just overly sensitive people who lose it?
The reason I am asking is, I know many good people who may suddenly turn violent - but their violence has nothing to do with greed or sadism. They are so sensitive that they can't tolerate extreme provocation, and hence react in that manner. Let me explain this. My cousin has a good heart, and people take advantage of him because he has a good heart (assuming he'd be too soft and naive to resist it). One day, he snapped. I wont go into details, but the point is: his goodness led to people exploiting him, and this exploitation frustrated him so badly that he snapped.
So could it be that most murderers and psychopaths are in fact very good people - and their goodness itself, paradoxically, is the cause of evil deeds later on?
The reason I am asking is, I know many good people who may suddenly turn violent - but their violence has nothing to do with greed or sadism. They are so sensitive that they can't tolerate extreme provocation, and hence react in that manner. Let me explain this. My cousin has a good heart, and people take advantage of him because he has a good heart (assuming he'd be too soft and naive to resist it). One day, he snapped. I wont go into details, but the point is: his goodness led to people exploiting him, and this exploitation frustrated him so badly that he snapped.
So could it be that most murderers and psychopaths are in fact very good people - and their goodness itself, paradoxically, is the cause of evil deeds later on?
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Also I think there is a difference between being timid, allowing others to take advantage of you and being nice. One can be a doormat to others and harbor much hatred and resentment towards people and one can stand up and take a firm stand against harm while caring about the well being of the other person.
It is also said that our actions are our only true possessions and it is our actions that define who we are.
So while a person on a shooting spree can be a good example of somebody with a lack of empathy it doesn't stand to reason that they are a good (as in moral) person.
This line of reasoning seems to justify rather than take responsibility for harmful actions.
A person that can be tricked or confused enough to think murdering unarmed people is the way to go could not be called moral in my viewpoint.
I'm not saying it is impossible for them to eventually wake up and be productive but that they obviously lack the empathy that would make it possible while doing harm.
I can't believe a good person would go on a shooting spree no matter what they have endured, sorry.
Most do not shoot people...most learn that the consequences of their actions are too high a price to pay. But they do not learn to feel empathy . If they comply to normal codes of conduct its because its easier...
But as I said in another thread, they are uncommon. I see two or three people with full blown Personality Disorders per year out of many scores of referrals.
Because someone is "overly sensitive" does not make one a psychopath or turn suddenly violent. I'm a very sensitive person and people have taken advantage of me; but I haven't committed sociopathic actions or shot up school or mall. I also have Aspergers syndrome: a "mental condition". From what you've said about your cousin, it's sad he snapped, but a "psychopath" who is misunderstood he is not. I don't even know why you would consider such.
People who are "psychopaths" need mental health and medical attention; something that many can not, or simply will not, get. We should help the unfortunate in our society, but many of us refuse to, because we don't want to do the work. Therefore many are left to their own thoughts and some, unfortunately, shoot up an elementary school.
In short, we need to assist those who need psychiatric help; but most, if any, are not just sensitive people who "just snap" due to provocation. It can, and sometimes does, happen, but most of the time it's not that simple.
*step off soapbox*
We are products of our environment and although it may not be their fault, they are not doing good so they are not worthy of the label "good".
We are what we do. There are no karma toilets to "save" us.
Mental health is a complex thing. Just snapping due to provocation does not make one a psychopath; or their actions right for that matter.
To be honest, if you think a school shooter is someone who is "misunderstood" and snapped because "society is just so mean to them", and completely ignore how complex the issue really gets, then maybe you need to get something checked.
For this reasons most people with P.D .who break the law...many dont...are left to be dealt with through the prison system..
Untreated schizophrenia seems the more likely disorder than psychopathy. There is a huge difference there.
"Are they psychopaths? Screw them and throw them in prison".
Sorry if I seem a bit antsy on this issue. In my humble opinion, we need a lot of reform, (mental, prison and otherwise) if we wish to catch up with, and stop becoming the laughing stock of, the industrialized world .
But when that same person sees a red-haired prostitute walking the streets at night, something comes over them and they have an urge to hurt/ kill. (NOT a good person behavior).
Mental illness is an extremely complex situation, with a multitude of actions, reactions, and levels of functionality within the realms of what is considered "appropriate" (sometimes called "normal" by laypeople) behavioral responses and reactions to both positive and negative stimuli. What makes stimuli overtly positive or negative? Depends on the mental issues the person has.
Having a conversation about "sociopaths" or "psychopaths" (and there is a difference) is like trying to have a conversation about ALL white people, or ALL women, or ALL people between 30 and 50 yrs old. There are too many variables to even begin to use any sort of broad brush statements.
@Music , Why not leave psychopaths and sociopaths (discussions) to the professionals? ;-)
In fact under British Medical law part of the definition of Personality Disorder says " a condition which does not respond to treatment ".
We have quite enough to do trying to deal with the conditions which DO respond to treatment... with long waiting lists and finite resources.
"Are they psychopaths? Screw them and throw them in prison".
Sorry if I seem a bit antsy on this issue. In my humble opinion, we need a lot of reform, (mental, prison and otherwise) if we wish to catch up with, and stop becoming the laughing stock of, the industrialized world .
Hey Chris, it isn't that there is no treatment for psychopaths, it's that the person has to choose treatment. Here in Canada anyways. A psychopath usually doesn't see anything wrong with what they do and can justify their behavior so those suffering from that disorder are least likely to seek help and if they harm somebody, yes they will be locked up.
For the many personality disorders, there are therapies and medications that can help but it is the individuals own accountability that makes it so.
I have been a psychiatrist for rather a long time and I have not heard of one that has any degree of success. And I attend conferences with ( among others ) American and Canadian colleagues.
Any good health system will focus on healing the whole person.
If you know different then I promise you the world will beat a path to your door...
Can I ask what your qualifications are in this sphere ?
I am a Consultant Psychiatrist who is involved in research in the field and who teaches MD's who want to specialise in the sphere of Psychiatry...
In the US and Canada and Europe N.P.D is used to describe conditions which show certain personality traits and which do not respond to treatments.
Every so often someone will claim that they have the answer to NPD...they never convince anyone. We in the field of mental health would love to have a treatment for NPD which works..believe me. Its the Holy Grail.
Narcissitic Personality Disorder is not commonly referred to as psychopathy here as the symptoms are a bit different.
I'm almost a PSW but have just finished the Mental Health Disorders part of the program. I have the textbook right in front of me. I work with 15 clients with Schizoid personality disorder who also have other disorders alongside it.
As I stated, there are indeed effective treatments available here but the individual has to want to seek help.
I think you are confusing the term "treatment" with the term "cure".
I did not mention Schizoid Personality Disorders as they are not commonly conflated with "psychopathy". ...which btw is not a medical term in current common use.
I addressed the term used in the OP.
I did not say that there were no treatments for any personality disorders. I said that there were no recognised treatments for NPD.
I have perhaps three or four people with NPD referred to me a month..usually by the courts to establish whether they they do indeed have NPD a process which is largely carried out by my psychologist colleagues...if they do show the signs of NPD then my job ends there.
As I said under the British National Health act NPD is deemed untreatable.
I have most months 10 people ( on average ) refereed to me with Depressive conditions. And as many with Clinical Anxiety. I also have a steady stream of people with Schizophrenia and Bipolar conditions..some of them are new cases some of them are ongoing.
I try to presribe as few drugs as possible and in addition to my medical qualifications I am a qualified Cognitive Behaviour Therapist.
Whether that adds up to an " exercise in redundancy " I will leave others to decide.
If you will notice I am talking about Canada and never sugested that psychopathy is a commonly used term. I have only deferred the term because it used to be used.
When you have a client who is so paranoid that they make a conspiracy nut seem normal.. And they utterly and truely believe it in their mind... There is not much you can do about that.
Either way, in a sense we are both right about treatment because although there are therapies and medications, somebody suffering from this severe a disorder wouldn't consent to them so they could hardly be effective.
Sorry about that earlier crack, I was just being a smartass.
The other problem in the o/p is the term "good". What constitutes a good person? If I say the person is not a good person will it be taken to imply that I believe they are evil?
If a person lacks the ability to have empathy is it a choice or a defect?
But mass shooters and serial killers cannot be lumped into the "snapped" category. Most of the time they have been planning such events for an extended period of time. And yes, even mentally ill people are capable of planning out and carrying out complex plans. Both groups have a tendency (not always of course) to be highly intelligent people, actually. Lanza and Holmes were both quite intelligent. Many serial killers are as well. It seems a lot of highly intelligent people struggle in ways we cannot comprehend, though obviously not all of them do. No one person is going to respond the same way to a similar set of circumstances.
If someone repeatly asks questions that are specifically designed to cause disagreements and conflict between people, would this lack of empathy that is common to many psychopathic conditions, correspond to a definition of good people or goodness itself?
Is this a flame to fan?
People, with their morally reprehensible behavior, create the likes of Holmes ... and then wonder why they're being shot at. This has to stop. Let us first become half decent, and then point fingers at psychopaths or whoever.
But I don't think any one factor creates a "psychopath." It's just a perfect storm of conditions present for that person at that time.
The rest of us might be feeding into that..
Why not concern yourself with the psychopaths and the people who 'create' them in India, you know- your home turf- instead of continuously critiquing the US and our societal issues?
He was probably suffering from a mental illness, and was (allegedly) worshipping the devil - a symptom of mental illness in my book.
I agree that the loss of life is an absolute tragedy, including the loss of his life, but this doesn't mean I have to delude myself into thinking that he was somehow "good". True compassion doesn't require that you blind yourself to the truth about people.
But I still think it's appropriate to judge actions as good or bad though, on the conventional level. As there is still a huge difference between giving a homeless person some food and robbing them, etc, etc.
These issues are serious and you're making a mockery of tragedy. One more word out of place and you can take a break.
Got it?
Take care and much love!