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Reincarnation
Mateeah
Explorer
I am new to buddhism and I am not sure if I believe in reincarnation. I mean, it makes sense to me - by its very nature, the earth recycles and it is a fact of science that matter (including the human spirit) cannot be destroyed. When you extinguish a flame in water, the energy is not automatically gone - it has made the water slightly warmer than before. Do all Buddhists believe in reincarnation? Do you? Why or why not?
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But to answer your question. There are those who believe in the concept, those who don't, and those of us who are open-minded but seek some kind of evidence.
reincarnation is from the Hindus and means the incarnation of a soul to another body. we use the term "becoming" or "re-becoming" to differentiate. It on the surface seems to be a semantics issue and it can be as long as a person knows the difference.
as for belief in re-becoming.. in the Kalama sutta the Buddha said that if there is no rebirth.. the practice brings benefits here and now in this life.. and if there is rebirth, then you are doubly rewarded. If you don't "believe" in re-becoming, then shelf it. They say you can get to the point where you see past lives and such, then it will be " truth" and not " belief".
as for me personally.. I guess you can say I "believe" in re-becoming. It's not something I can explain with logic. While I'm really technically agnostic on the matter, I've always felt deep down that it was "right"... that it made sense... and that I liked that I could of been some cool person in history and that I could come back in the future. This was a child's love of the concept.. now if it's true I just want out, last thing I need is to come back AGAIN.. especially if I've cried more tears then in the four great oceans throughout the aeons of my re-becoming.
And of course I can just stop and examine deeply and see that there is absolutely no ground and everything is ungraspable and disjointed.
But then again there is this continuity. From one moment to next. If I stab my hand with a knife then pain follows. This is obvious in all instants of life.
I have no real evidence for or against rebirth.
But I find that with dharma study and practice we really deconstruct all that is constructed. For instance the past is a thought in the present. The future is a thought in the present. These are just images and ideas. And even the present an idea which has only apparent convention existence on the basis of a past and future. If the past and future are seen to be illusory well then so is the present.
And then we find ourselves in the unborn, unfabricated, timelessness.
And from this non location we recognize no birth and no death as the arising and passing away of apparent appearances. So rebirth is always happening and in fact rebirth itself is the deathless.
None of this probably makes sense but really examine your experience. All is clear. This arising and falling has no center, location, nor time. A continuous flow with no owner.
Its actually quite remarkable.
Rebirth becomes about confidence in what the Buddha taught. And if we really take dependent origination seriously then it is something we must consider.
But again imho its better to have a good view and good relationship towards rebirth. Why? Well if we take the view that suffering isn't just this life. The suffering is all the lives, countless, etc. And this really puts perspective on practice and really makes us work hard.
Not sure if this answered your question but it sure made me think a bit. Thanks!
'Moment-to-moment rebirth' refers to the arising and ceasing of our sense of self, the ephemeral 'I,' which is ultimately the product of what the Buddha called a process of 'I-making' and 'my-making' (ahankara-mamankara). Without further scientific advancements or extrasensory perception gained through meditation (AN 5.28), this is the only kind of rebirth that's readily observable in the here and now, hence my agnosticism in regard to postmortem rebirth in general.
That said, I don't see any contradiction between the two. According to the texts, a beginning point to samsara (literally 'wandering on') isn't evident (SN 15.3). This can be interpreted two ways — that a beginning point to the continual cycle of death and rebirth of beings isn't evident, or that a beginning point to the continual cycle of death and rebirth of the conceit 'I am,' the self-identification that designates a being (satta), isn't evident — and they're not mutually exclusive.
To put it simply, one moment of consciousness conditions the arising of next (rebirth), just as one action conditions the quality of feeling a moment of consciousness cognizes (kamma); and if one accepts the traditional interpretation of rebirth, this process doesn't cease at death if there's still craving (tahna) present in the mind (SN 44.9).
Either way, the point is the same: all that really matters in the here and now is whether suffering is present, and if so, how it can be overcome.
And if you're interested, you can find a more detailed collection of my thoughts on rebirth here.
It is not nessesary to be believed in or not to be able to have an excellent Buddhist practise but I'd recommend remaining open to it being a possibility.
There were times I vaguely believed in the idea and imagined I had some memories that have a connection to a previous life. For instance as a kid I dreamed of myself as person with black hair and in a dream this was repaired with a miracle comb (as I was actually blond). Also I thought it was significant that as a kid I would take off my shoes first thing when I came home. That was not the habit in our family. I always sat cross legged and such small things later made me think that in my previous life maybe I lived in Asia.
I know people who talk about previous lives as if they happened yesterday. When they meet someone they don’t like; they get into a state of hypnosis or something and figure out the reason. “Ah, back then he raped me and I killed him for it, so of course we have some tension between us”. Problem solved.
So on the one hand I can understand how people believe in the idea, but for me it is more something like a dream now. The memories of past lives – like dreams – are the reflection of our present state of mind. When I feel attracted to an Asian religion I might imagine or dream of having lived in Asia in a previous life.
At some point Ian Stevenson will pop up in threads like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
He searched for proof of reincarnation. That’s basically the right mindset in my opinion. The idea needs proof. I don’t think Ian Stevenson’s method was good and his anecdotal evidence doesn’t decide the matter. Others think his findings are convincing enough.
I think it is important to claim the right for Buddhists to seriously question the idea of rebirth.
Our practice is essential; not our belief system.
That’s about all I can say on the subject.
Try the 8 fold path, this will teach you how to 'enjoy life to the fullest', or did I miss something?
Being mindful and living life with sila, samadhi and panna IS living life to the fullest.
You can only party, orgasm, and eat so much before it becomes hollow. Even wonderous sights and experiences of travel, while amazing, don't bring real purpose to life.
Also something that I don't understand about rebirth is if the universe came to an end then there would be no more creatures being born therefore the souls of the creatures who where wiped out would not be reincarnated so that would contradict the rebirth system.
Think about when sleeping and in a dream state and what types of dreams occur. For most of us it is all kinds, and we have no control as to what arises. This gives us an indication of the type of mind and states we will experience at death.
Is such a belief delusional? Perhaps. Does it hurt anyone? No.
The point being is that there is only one unique incarnation of a person. All the aggregates make the person, and this person is not physically reborn after death. Rebirth occurs in the mind at the unfolding of various projections, and silent stillness in the present moment is the cessation of rebirth.
Now if you are still with me the continuity is how the points connect. How do they connect? How do you know that you are the same person as when you were a kid? Are you? If you cannot grasp a point then how can you say you 'got older'. Buddha said there was aging but yet that aging is ungraspable.
Ok now somewhere in Buddhist texts is the following... I got the info from a dharma talk.
Now these points are neither manifest nor non-manifest. When the points are just sitting they are non-manifest. So say you have a memory of a spanish exam 10 years ago. You are not thinking of it and it is non-manifest. Now you think of 1 little thing and all at once, once you pick that point the whole pattern with all the relationships, the mandala all appears at once. That information is panoramic meaning it all reveals not like an inchworm showing point by point, but rather a whole surface appears all at once as all those points become manifest. Then later that memory becomes unmanifest again.
I just think it's very difficult for people, with our thinking minds, to comprehend that perhaps we're as important to the grand scheme of things as a bird turd. We want to believe that there is a point to our lives.
I have had a couple of dreams that feel like past life memories that I can't really explain unless it's just my mind playing tricks on me. But to what end?
I also subsrcibe to the idea of constantly being reborn with every moment but I also feel it objectively. With every new life percieving through a new set of senses I feel reborn into the physical realm.
It's almost as though I don't believe in rebirth but inter-birth.
I feel it's best to be agnostic about the matter though so as to not cling to a belief that could be wrong.
In terms of "nothing can happen without a scientific explantion for it", think back at science in different ages. Did science always have the answers it has now? Will it not have answers to more issues in the future?
So really anatta and rebirth showcase this reality of corelessness and groundlessness. Sure we can say that child was me, etc. but really its just an image or idea we cling to. And really we disn't just randomly appear in the present. There is a causal link with no entities. Just like the wind moving and then rain dropping and we call it weather. We too are conventional labels on the basis of assumed processes.
There really is no solid answer but i don't believe thats the point. The point is to realize that the world operates as cause and effect and this becomes a pathway towards liberation. And of course even causality has no ground. But a make believe problem needs a make believe antidote. The world isn't what it seems but yet we cling and we cannot detach from perception.
Yesterday is no more and tommorow hasn't been. The present a constantly moving river with no ground.
The buddha is asking us to really examine this and relate it to our lives.
Good luck.
Why fear hell when our fellow beings live it every day?
Are these states not up to us to acheive?
I neither accept or reject the reality of either. I'm open-minded.
As a cop, and a paramedic, there is no answer that any of us can give over what happened in Connecticut; outside of a very deragned mind that was attempted to be hidden by a hopfully loving mother. No one who is ligitimate will ever be able to explain why on the human level. Guranteed there's going to be years of forensic study on him, and her; and it will only render another chapter in a text book.
For me, it's that life is precious and now with so many, so young taken from us, we should stop the harm we do to ourselves, and others. Stop makin life a football game, and start returning to the sanctity of the family, so many holes now that must be healed over; and no matter what the treatment, there will alway's be a scare to show and remind us of why it's there. And, what are the potentials of what must be done. :cool:
Don't need to believe in postmortem rebirth to change or be motivated to change, obviously.