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Staying rooted in your tradition

The Dali Larma and Thich Nhat Hanh both call
on westerners to stay rooted in their own
traditions. They both feel if one travels deeply
into all paths there is a rich contemplative
river where all paths converge.

I was curious as to how many of us can actually
manage this?

As a quaker it's very easy, as we have no creed
and celebrate difference and new light from
wherever it may come and our meetings are
deeply rooted in silence.

Wishing you all well from a snowy London.
Zero

Comments

  • edited January 2013
    Deep immersion, sever all logical understanding and knowledge of your past and present, complete submersion into the tradition and not contempt of other tradition, not even thinking of any other tradition exist, complete in devotional stance and focus. At least 3-5 years
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Well I strongly disagree with what they said, because If i had stuck with my families Secular, neutral beliefs my life would still suck now, if somebody thought that Buddhism could help them I would urge them to convert.
  • Not all of us have or hold to rigidity or dogma from East or West. This 'tradition' of flexibility allows us to value Quakerism, Buddhism or common sense. Pattern repetition and memetic behaviour
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics
    usually enslaves rather than frees us.
    There is convergence, those wishing to order their mind to new baggage, go one way. Those wishing to widen their mind find their space too . . .
  • In my humble opinion, there really is no "need to convert".
    As the Dali Lama has said, Buddhism can be added to anyones' daily practice/life.
    It is really just the right way to live and to be mindful of our actions and the result of them.
    I'm not saying to stick with what ever beliefs you don't believe are helping you. But Buddhism is a path that can be incorperated into any "set of beliefs, or lack there of"
    lobsterJason
  • In Tibet it seems the other way round, Bon was incorporated into Mahayana Buddhism - giging rise to Tibetan Buddhism. At its core, Buddhism remains free from from clinging to rituals and traditions, hence it can be easily incorporated into anyones' lifestyle. All this is just my opinion - so correct me if I'm mistaken.
  • Edit: "giging" ---> "giving"
    Where's the edit function... can't seem to find it?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2013
    If you're referring specifically to religious traditions, I wasn't raised in one, so my roots don't run as deep as many; and I spent many years during my teens and early twenties exploring what was out there. After discovering Buddhism, however, I knew I'd found something that was truly beneficial for me spiritually, giving me direction and guidance at a time when I needed it the most. So, finding my tradition was actually the hardest part. Staying true to that tradition has been difficult at times as well, and I stray off the path every now and then; but I always find myself coming back and improving upon the foundations that I've built.

    As for not converting, I suppose that one could stay within whatever religious tradition they were born into and still practice aspects of Buddhism or achieve inner peace through their own traditional religious practices without an sort of formal conversion to Buddhism. I've found a substantial number of similarities between various religious traditions, and I know many who seem to be quite happy without being Buddhist, or even necessarily religious. But for me, Buddhism has everything I need, so I don't see any reason to sit on the fence, figuratively speaking, or adopt a more 'Western' spiritual path just because that's what's expected of me. I'm a citizen of the world, after all. :)
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I like the way @Davetheseeker phrased it, above.

    I like to think that I seek wisdom, rather than dogma. I attempt to strip away the magic of both Christianity and Buddhism religions and try to look simply at the wisdom of the teachings. And I find much wisdom in many of the teachings of both Buddha and Jesus. I guess some would call that (gasp!) "cherry picking". But you know, partaking in cherries can be very fulfilling...but I want to taste apples and raspberries and antelope, too.
    MaryAnnestavros388Davetheseeker
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    Hee hee......rooted!!

    Sorry, has different connotations in Australia then elsewhere.
  • I find this one difficult to agree with. It makes no sense to me that it would serve a purpose for an individual to stay rooted in a tradition that does not resonate with them.

    Just because something is traditional, that does not make it useful, especially where religion and culture are concerned.

    Indeed, some like myself have no fixed tradition with which to travel deeply into. I can see how such an idea may be beneficial for someone who is identified with a particular Western tradition, but beyond that I fail to see how useful this is, and perhaps just perpetuates boundaries and division.
    lobster
  • If someone had meaningful experiences in the religion that they grew up with, then sure, it makes sense to think carefully before abandoning it. However, not everyone feels satisfied with the religion of their birth. I don't have much of a religious background, so for me there's little to want to hold onto. There's also no reason to assume that religious choices made by parents are ones that will automatically resonate with their children.

    I can see perhaps why such advice is offered, but I think it misses the mark when it comes to the reality of many people's religious lives and upbringing. Another thing to consider is the time we live in -- now with such access to information as well as more freedom to deviate from the community norm in terms of religion, naturally there will be more people seeking alternatives when what they grew up with doesn't suffice.

    I believe that all religions have things in common and their own beauty. However, I'm not an 'all roads lead to the same thing' kind of person. There are plenty of differences as well as similarities -- some that do not mesh well with each other. This is not always a bad thing -- as long as people can be respectful of each other, it can lend a great deal of vibrancy to the religious landscape. For me Buddhism resonates in ways that other religious paths have not because not all religious paths are the same, and being a Westerner doesn't mean that I am automatically more suited to something else.
    lobster
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    I abandoned by "tradition" long before I found Theravada. I think the only thing from the Catholic faith that has stuck with me through my life was the true teachings of Jesus... and how they made sense to me, and now I see much of it to be very "buddhist" in a way.
  • They obviously weren't raised Irish Catholic.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    UHG! How dreadful to remain rooted in the tradition of my upbringing.
    A presbyterian church, grey, conservative, opposing rights for women. Dreary "worship", dreary academic approach... not a spark of spirit or inspiration.
  • I don't think he was saying people unsatisfied with their tradition should remain rooted to it. I think he was speaking to those who benefit from their tradition. Those teachers may have met some religious figures in all traditions who have a strong compassion and kindness. For example the Dalai Lama says that religion is kindness and that any religion or secularism can develop in us that quality. I have a friend who is a catholic nun and she is in her 80s. I don't think she should try to switch to Buddhism; she is in bad health. She has cultivated love for Jesus for 70+ years.
    Invincible_summer
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited January 2013
    Jeffrey said:

    I don't think he was saying people unsatisfied with their tradition should remain rooted to it. I think he was speaking to those who benefit from their tradition. Those teachers may have met some religious figures in all traditions who have a strong compassion and kindness. For example the Dalai Lama says that religion is kindness and that any religion or secularism can develop in us that quality. I have a friend who is a catholic nun and she is in her 80s. I don't think she should try to switch to Buddhism; she is in bad health. She has cultivated love for Jesus for 70+ years.

    I'm confused about the point of even making such a statement then. To whom are TNH and HHDL aiming their statements? Generally speaking, one doesn't seek out another religion unless they find their own unsatisfactory (and usually this is for good cause).
  • Being nourished by my quaker community
    alongside my commitment to Buddhist
    practice I feel the above statement does
    not address me.

    However, in my Christian days, I took
    their message seriously and found
    great nourishment in the contemplative
    tradition within Christianity which was so
    removed from the mainstream church
    experience which always left me cold
    and feeling alienated.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited January 2013
    Perhaps the word "tradition" could be thought of as being yourself as honestly as you can and then really investigating that tradition. Intellectually, this is easy to say, but it is probably harder to do.

    I was, for example, brought up with the religion of the intellect. Very smart, very savvy, very well-read ... and couldn't find my ass with both hands. Buddhism, or more specifically, the Zen practice I latched onto, seemed to beckon with its apparently-anti-intellectual nostrums: If I could just get a little dumber, maybe I'd be happier.

    Naturally, my high hopes were not realized because I had missed the point: Being dumber or throwing all my possessions away and living a 'simple' life or getting hip to all the verbal approaches in Buddhism was not the point. The point was to investigate the mind that clung to improvement and belief. Not bad-mouth it -- just investigate it. Investigate THIS tradition.

    I knew what I knew and was whoever the hell I was. Trying to unknow it or bury it was not going to work. But the attitude and appreciation for what I knew and who I was was open to revision -- a revision that asserted itself in practice.

    And I imagine the same might be true for someone who was brought up in a hell-bent-for-leather Christian household or a give-me-money-or-give-me-death environment. When such things sink in, well, they have just sunk in. And when they have sunk in, when tradition simply lives at your house or mine, then the question is not how to get rid of them, but how to resee them ... and more important how to revise (if desired) what anyone might have learned to rely on. Is this tradition reliable? Not, is it good or bad or elevated or ugly, just, is it reliable? Is it reliable or does it seem to throw up brick walls? And if it throws up brick walls, whose responsibility is that? Etc.

    Probably the best way to understand all this (if "understanding" is the right word) is to heed the bumper sticker that advises, "Don't believe everything you think." It's a bumper sticker that might just as easily say, "Don't believe everything you believe."

    Practice provides the investigative tools. Use 'em, don't use 'em -- your life, your tradition.
    Invincible_summer
  • Jeffrey said:

    I don't think he was saying people unsatisfied with their tradition should remain rooted to it. I think he was speaking to those who benefit from their tradition. Those teachers may have met some religious figures in all traditions who have a strong compassion and kindness. For example the Dalai Lama says that religion is kindness and that any religion or secularism can develop in us that quality. I have a friend who is a catholic nun and she is in her 80s. I don't think she should try to switch to Buddhism; she is in bad health. She has cultivated love for Jesus for 70+ years.

    I beg to differ..If you read H.H. in context he is saying only switch as a last resort.
    He said that switching religions often leaves people alienated from their own community..which rather misses the point of spiritual practice...which should ground us.
    Although its less well known Ajahn Chah says the same thing. He was very concerned about people turning to Buddhism in a negative reaction to something else.
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    I have no roots in what would be considered the traditional religion of my parents and grand parents. There was never anything that rang as truth and I pretty well rejected it as soon as I was able to ask questions and read.

    It was never for me.

    I love both H.H. the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh but this seems to me one of those things that is easy for them to say never having to try to believe in a vengeful, jealous and all powerful creator deity.

    "Don't use Buddhism to become a Buddhist... Use Buddhism to become a better whatever you already are"
    -- Dalai Lama

    What if you've always been rather Buddhist even before hearing about Buddhism?
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    What if you've always been rather Buddhist even before hearing about Buddhism?
    @ourself -- OK, so be "rather Buddhist." Just don't be lazy about it.
  • @zombiegirl I was speculating about where their statement is directed, to whom was it directed? I assumed it was to those happy with their western traditions. Otherwise it would be a non-sensical position to subvert the will of buddhing western Buddhists.

    But I will give you an example of how I stay associated with western ideals (you denizens of newbuddhist). I used to pray to Jesus. I used to pray to the Gods in JR Tolkiens Silmarillion. It was an alive prayer. And so it's no problem for me to ask Gods and so forth to help me. I also ask Buddhas help. I have a terrible suffering with my mental illness and whatever support I can get from my youthful non-intellectual prayers is fine by me.
  • @mettanando, I have to disagree as well. The cat is already out of the bag when you are disatisfied with X-tianity. You can't put the cat back in the bag. I count on HH intelligence in that matter not to think you can force people to go to their mother religions.
  • There will always be people who are unhappy in their religion.
    But as I understand it, Buddhism isn't a religion.
    Buddhism is an awareness of life and the actions we make.

    Ask yourself this, "are the actions I make wholesome?"

    "do my actions benefit other living beings?"

    Sit with that and REALLY look into yourself and the things you think say or do.

    Each morning I ask the help of the Buddhas, Bodhisatvas and the Universe to help me to find the strength, wisdom and compassion to be aware of these three things and to make each of them benefit all living beings.
    Sure I don't always "make the mark" but I do my best.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    If I remember right (which I might not) upon reading some of HHDL's stuff and listening to him talk where this topic was brought up slightly, at least some of his point of saying so is the cultural differences. He did not want people not raised in Buddhist culture to confuse understandings of Buddhism and the culture that often goes with it, with the culture they have been raised within. It's very easy to do (confuse them), especially since English does not have the proper words to express some things written so long ago. It is part of the reason I think finding a teacher is important, if/when you can manage it, because they usually know both cultures and both or several languages and can help you more properly interpret texts and other things.

    Not saying it isn't possible to understand without a teacher, just that it is easier to avoid those conflicts if you have one, and easier to avoid latching on to an incorrect understanding.

    I was raised Lutheran, and from a very early age I did not believe in the stuff I was told. Staying in my tradition wasn't going to happen to matter what. But it most certainly has not alienated me. Quite the opposite.
  • Staying rooted sounds so much like staying attached. Then, of course, one should not get rooted to something that is not good.
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