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Tanha
tikaL2o6
Explorer
Tanha is generally translated as craving. I'm wondering what exactly craving is. It is my point of view that if one were to ask the Buddha, he would respond in one of two ways:
- Tanha is the root cause of pain.
- There are these three kinds of craving; craving for sense based pleasures, craving for existence, and craving for non-existence.
With that said, if one were to ask me, I would say that craving is a very subtle, almost imperceptible mechanism in the mind, a clamping down, a push, pull, or disregard of whatever is felt as painful, pleasant, or neither painful nor pleasant.
What is your opinion and why?
- Tanha is the root cause of pain.
- There are these three kinds of craving; craving for sense based pleasures, craving for existence, and craving for non-existence.
With that said, if one were to ask me, I would say that craving is a very subtle, almost imperceptible mechanism in the mind, a clamping down, a push, pull, or disregard of whatever is felt as painful, pleasant, or neither painful nor pleasant.
What is your opinion and why?
2
Comments
The way I see it, craving (tahna, literally 'thirst') is a very subtle but powerful aspect of our psychology that's directly tied to suffering. It's there, latent in the mind, waiting to exert its influence through mental fabrications by directing or at the very least encouraging the mind to feed upon sensory experiences via the five clinging-aggregates in an unhealthy way (e.g., see SN 12.52).
In this, I think it's distinct from biological wants or needs. When we're hungry, for example, our mind has a tendency to attach itself to the desire for food and create an identity around it, which can then create suffering in a number of ways, e.g., if we don't get what we want; if it doesn't live up to our expectations that we create around the attainment of our goal; if, in our greed, we eat too much and feel sick and lament our physical discomfort; etc.
Craving, then, isn't simply our desire to or for X; it's the beginning of a mental chain of events that turns our desires for things into the potential for suffering.
That's one way of looking at it, at any rate.
"The way I see it, craving (tahna, literally 'thirst') is a very subtle but powerful aspect of our psychology that's directly tied to suffering. It's there, latent in the mind, waiting to exert its influence through mental fabrications by directing or at the very least encouraging the mind to feed upon sensory experiences via the five clinging-aggregates in an unhealthy way (e.g., see SN 12.52). "
My question about this thirst, which seems so different to me from desire (which could be directed outwards, wishing the well-being of others and things along that line) is this: Is it not just the mechanism within us that triggers our Greed for things for ourselves and those whom we love most dearly? I say this because desire can be a good thing in that it can motivate people towards pursuing good things even for strangers, whereas craving for things in themselves generally tends towards hoarding and things like that --things that weigh us down and hamper our freedom.
Maybe it's like pining vs whining when one is really out of control. I mean, the spirit can pine for beauty and freedom, and that's a goodly kind of desire; whereas if the self-aggrandizing tendencies are not kept in check, perhaps there is some sensory whining going on, demanding the attention and attachment of the poor sufferer.
Powerful: yes, Subtle: No
Not sure if this is even a good answer or even worth speaking about but I'll just put some observations I've had down here about this topic, which ironically is "The" topic of life.
For myself on this path I've come to notice the heart. It is an unconditional sadness, a longing. It is very physical and emotional. And there isn't a story why or how it got there. It just is inherently what the heart feels. When one interacts from this you really see people. You see their suffering, their confidence, their goodness, and how they all want the same thing. They all long to be real. They all long for this to be permanent. They all long for some connection, some truth, something.
And until one finds that its like we're constantly looking outwards to find this. What is this? The heart itself that longs. It is called bodhicitta.
So you see desire is a funny thing. On one level it makes us suffering, go insane. We just have this incredible desire towards or away from things. Yet we are not satisfied.
But when we practice the dharma we find this embryo in our hearts. and its totally free and its nothing we can manipulate. Nothing we can own, Yet it is the thing we all want, the thing we long for is ourselves. We long for our true essence, which cannot be found by intellectualism or cold analysis.
It is found by diving inside. By weeping. By looking at people and seeing them really seeing them and then weeping some more because.
well there is no reasons. you just fucking weep. and you're happy. and you're okay. and you want to connect and its all okay and its not okay.
so thats what craving is. the seed of enlightenment and the seed of suffering.
The second noble truth states that the origination of suffering is "the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming" (SN 56.11). As Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains in Wings to Awakening: Desire, on the other hand, can be skillful (kusala) or unskillful (akusala) depending on the context. The desire for happiness, especially long-term welfare and happiness, is actually an important part of the Buddhist path. Moreover, desire is listed as one of the four bases of power (iddhipada), which themselves are included in the seven sets of qualities that lead to the end of suffering (MN 103). The four qualities listed in the bases of power are desire, persistence, intent and discrimination. In Wings to Awakening, Thanissaro Bhikkhu points to this passage: He goes on to explain that, "This passage shows that the problem lies not in the desire, effort, intent or discrimination, but in the fact that these qualities can be unskillfully applied or improperly tuned to their task." If we take a look at the exchange between Ananda and the brahmin Unnabha in SN 51.15, for example, we can see that the attainment of the goal is indeed achieved through desire, even though paradoxically, the goal is said to be the abandoning of desire. That's because at the end of the path desire, as well as the other three bases of power, subside on their own. As Ananda explains at the end of SN 51.15: So, in essence, desire can be beneficial in certain contexts, and one shouldn't be worried about the desire to do skillful things. Craving, on the other hand, is something that, by its very nature, conditions suffering through the way it encourages the mind to feed upon sensory experiences and either causes it to intensely cling to pleasant experiences or violently push away unpleasant ones. It may have helped us at some point in our evolution as a species, but now it tends to do more harm than good.
SN 12.52, paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to "the allure of clingable phenomena," i.e., things that we can hanker after, such as material objects, warmth, friendship, pleasant memories, friendship, etc. That portion of scripture maintains that it is the focussing on the things or on their drawbacks that is the key. Not sure this is written in language really conducive to our modern mentalities, but the meaning is clear. As human animals, we do need some of these "clingable phenomena" in order to flourish, though. I guess the key to these passages is the "keeping the focus on" either the allure, if we are to perish spiritually, or on the transitoriness of these phenomena, if we are not to drown in worldliness.
"Turning away" is the meaning of repentance; perhaps that's where I get hung up, since I see Buddhist progress along the spiritual path as being more organic than Western process. I'll take progress over process any day. Sukhita, I like your juxtaposition of "dispassion" and the "brute force" we might impose on ourselves. Turning away (i.e., repentance) is where we'd have to "gird our loins with great strength," so to speak, whereas dispassion is something that is "built up," as it were, over time —turning down the spigot (but never so abruptly as to force a counterproductive reaction).
Bit by bit, we turn the screw, and with less fuel spewing from the faucet, the pace slows...
if you have any one of unskillful quility out of those 16 unskillful qualities you have 'thanha'
there is no doubt you have more than one
i know i have more than one
that is why i am here typing this post