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Can I vent about money?
still_learning
Veteran
I know everybody's different, and have different standards of living, but I think some people are just silly with their money.
I know of a married couple who easily make twice as much as me. They are accustomed to a higher standard of living than I am, but the things they spend their money on makes me shake my head.
They have cable tv with a few premium channels. Cable tv is expensive where we live. They still have magazine subscriptions to magazines that they don't really read. The furniture they buy are top brands and are very expensive. They shop at higher end grocers. They tons of shoes. They eat at expensive restaurant regularly. At least they don't have expensive cars.
I shake my head because they have a lot of debt and they complain about it, but are not willing to make cuts to pay it off. They are currently renting a house, but at the rate they get paid, I think they should already own a house within the years I've known them. On top of that, now they have an emergency and need money, they want me to help them out.
I'm not mad at them or anything, they are generally nice to me. I'm just disappointed in them.
I know of a married couple who easily make twice as much as me. They are accustomed to a higher standard of living than I am, but the things they spend their money on makes me shake my head.
They have cable tv with a few premium channels. Cable tv is expensive where we live. They still have magazine subscriptions to magazines that they don't really read. The furniture they buy are top brands and are very expensive. They shop at higher end grocers. They tons of shoes. They eat at expensive restaurant regularly. At least they don't have expensive cars.
I shake my head because they have a lot of debt and they complain about it, but are not willing to make cuts to pay it off. They are currently renting a house, but at the rate they get paid, I think they should already own a house within the years I've known them. On top of that, now they have an emergency and need money, they want me to help them out.
I'm not mad at them or anything, they are generally nice to me. I'm just disappointed in them.
0
Comments
Denial is a coping strategy that works for a lot of people, helping them (us) live without falling into a complete funk about how much work remains to be done to get to where they (we) need to be...
Good luck with whatever decision you make.
The people in question have cable television. Oh my god! They are just like 77% of the rest of Americans.
Frankly, I think this almost sounds like a class thing.
I have no problem with whether the OP gives them help or not. Apparently they need it, but there are many other people out there with a greater need. But some of the judgements here don't seem very "metta-minded".
If it were me, I would help them out but make a point of commenting on exactly what she / he put in the post i.e. "I am happy to help you out this time but maybe you need to have a look at your lifestyle so this situation doesn't arise in the future...."
As for the rich, let them eat their own cake.
Do you notice how people bang their head against the wall and ask others to remove the wall?
:rant:
My money is on a tight budget, and unfortunetly,
due to my own living expenses, caring for children,
and like lobster said...throwing a few to the Sangha, and
community...I'm tapped out. Don't take it personal.
I just don't have any left.
And yes....they make almost double what I make.
Also, for me, whether I borrowed people money in such a case would depend in part what it is for. What constitutes an emergency to one person does not constitute an emergency to me. Our family car blew up once and we could neither afford to repair or replace it. We rode bikes for 5 months, including into the snowy winter until we could save enough to buy some crap vehicle. An emergency for some. An inconvenience for us. Now if we are talking medical care for a child or something, that is completely different.
Either way always be cautious to loaning (assuming you are thinking loan and not a gift) money to anyone you are on any sort of personal basis with. If they already have bills they cannot pay, their owning to you will take a back seat over them saving their credit rating. One of my best friends borrowed $3000 to another mutual friend who had been through a rash of hard times, to help them save their small business. The person who borrowed the money talks all the time about their Keurig coffee maker and other things they buy but have made no attempt whatsoever to pay back any portion of the debt from 2 years ago. Not only did it destroy their friendship, but it destroyed the friendships that alot of us shared mutually. It's just not worth it. If you truly desire to help them and can afford to lose the money if they don't pay you back, then just give it freely. If you truly trust them to pay it back, write up a legally binding agreement. If you don't want to, or can't, then just say you are unable.
Though, I have to ask, either way, what is the point of venting? I ask myself this when I do it, so I'm asking here, too. Usually it is out of desire to wanting someone to agree with me and validate my feelings, whatever they are. Is it necessary?
Thanks mate.....I am getting better!
Welcome!
One trait of our monetary system which I find displeasing is how people can be so very fussy about things down to the very last detail or they won't sometimes even pay. Though necessary when you're dealing with precision instruments, fussiness is not very attractive in trivial matters. Our monetary system creates a lot of waste and runs up costs very significantly. In a way that coin with Caesar's face on it is an intrusion of the Emperor into every transfer of goods.
It's true that nature itself, in the very physiology of the cell, is superabounding in waste, but when that waste is compounded in the macrocosm, we see the dilemma that causes. Perhaps if governments don't engage our problems more, we might take things more often into our own hands with no reference to the Imperial Coin?
Just another thought...
Why vent? I'm a little frustrated and it just feels good to let it out. To be honest, I didn't know venting was an unbuddhist thing to do. Why is it unbuddhist?
I've never been jealous of their money and what they have, I live comfortably on my salary, and I really don't find comfort or joy in having so many material things. However, is it bad of me to think, "I'm glad I don't have spending habits like them."
Some of the things you mentioned seem like pretty easy things to cut back on (eating out frequently for example). Other things they may have a valid reason for. My money's tight, but I don't like to scimp to much on food costs, becasue I want to eat food that is healthier and prefereably produced in a more sustainable way. to me that is imporant as it has greater implications than just saving a little out of my pay check, but people's mileage varies when it comes to stuff like that. A lot of people are far from perfect and make at least some mistakes with money. That's part of being someone who isn't independantly wealthy. So try and be patient and compassionate towards them.
However, sometimes it does pay to be cautious when lending money. I'm not talking about giving money to charity, but things like bailing the people youi know out when they get into trouble. Sometimes the people and the situation is such that it is a good thing to do, but being financially entangled with other people can complicate things and cause resentment (happened with a friend of mine whom I helped out financially quite a lot while she was my roommate). The flip side holds true too -- be careful who you borrow from.
What irked me just a bit was that your post, and another on a different thread about gay marriage, and another on a different thread about abortion exposed more clearly to me a dichotomy on this forum between a couple of general themes and when you get down to specific cases.
In general, if you were to read 10,000 posts on this forum you would see that it is often preached that we should not judge people. You would also see a theme that we should not vent/rant. That to do those things is not what being a Buddhist is all about.
But then you get down to specific posts. For example, people who are not in favor of gay marriage are to be shamed...or even worse if they thing being gay is morally wrong. Or how disgusting people are who are not in favor of legalized abortion. Wow, what happened to not judging others? What happened to loving metta towards all?
Well, what happens is that the person then doing the judging starts putting conditions on not judging others and loving metta for all. Statements start popping up like, "Well, they're on the wrong side of history." But let's see, it's pretty clear that on this planet, Buddhism is very much a minority religion. Are Buddhists, therefore, on the wrong side of history? In fact, considering the biography of Buddha and the history of Buddhism, you could probably say that Buddha was on the wrong side of history. In a majority of the world (remember to consider virtually all of Africa and the Middle East, and many countries in other places in the world), gay marriage is on the wrong side of the "now". And we don't really know what history will develop on issues such as gay marriage and abortion. We see a little slice of history...but so did Athens, and Rome, and the sun never setting on the British Empire, and the Third Reich.
And loving metta for all...unless you're Dick Cheney, or radical Muslims, or Evangelical Christians, Then the loving metta for all begins to falter.
Now, lest you think I'm being hypocritical (and I am from time to time), I do judge people, and I think it's a human trait that is sometimes wise...and I don't mind at all when others judge me by my actions...and my posts. I never claim to have loving metta for all...for most, yes, but not for all.
@vinlyn, I think your position is very judgmental of judgmental attitudes. I think my Teacher and you think alike: "It's OK to have dogmas, but not OK to be dogmatic about them."
You know I was continuing to think about this thread. Isn't there a sutra where Buddha exhorts his followers to use wisdom in deciding with whom to associate...which, of course, requires making judgments about people.
I'm dying to find the one where the Lord Buddha speaks about how terrible it is when a person who doesn't truly "get it" (the substance of a religion) becomes a teacher of it.
It looks like the poor folk in the USA are gonna have a lot of venting to do about money with the escalating payroll tax:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/restored-payroll-tax-pinches-those-with-the-smallest-checks.html
@Jeffrey, although just a borderline extrovert, cuz I like quiet, I'm an ENTP. I never could understand the J's, except as efficiency whips in business and the military. [wry smile]
I hope I wasn't being too judgmental in my posts.
OIC.
:rockon:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.054.nara.html
"Herein, Vyagghapajja, whatsoever wealth a householder is in possession of, obtained by dint of effort, collected by strength of arm, by the sweat of his brow, justly acquired by right means — such he husbands well by guarding and watching so that kings would not seize it, thieves would not steal it, fire would not burn it, water would not carry it away, nor ill-disposed heirs remove it. This is the accomplishment of watchfulness.
"What is balanced livelihood?
"Herein, Vyagghapajja, a householder knowing his income and expenses leads a balanced life, neither extravagant nor miserly, knowing that thus his income will stand in excess of his expenses, but not his expenses in excess of his income.
"Just as the goldsmith,[5] or an apprentice of his, knows, on holding up a balance, that by so much it has dipped down, by so much it has tilted up; even so a householder, knowing his income and expenses leads a balanced life, neither extravagant nor miserly, knowing that thus his income will stand in excess of his expenses, but not his expenses in excess of his income.
"If, Vyagghapajja, a householder with little income were to lead an extravagant life, there would be those who say — 'This person enjoys his property like one who eats wood-apple.'[6] If, Vyagghapajja, a householder with a large income were to lead a wretched life, there would be those who say — 'This person will die like a starveling.'
"The wealth thus amassed, Vyagghapajja, has four sources of destruction:
"(i) Debauchery, (ii) drunkenness, (iii) gambling, (iv) friendship, companionship and intimacy with evil-doers.
"There are four sources for the increase of amassed wealth: (i) abstinence from debauchery, (ii) abstinence from drunkenness, (iii) non-indulgence in gambling, (iv) friendship, companionship and intimacy with the good.
This takes some trust that the answer, whether we like it or not, is just getting out of the way of all of our own obscuration.
Let us know what happens.
I would try to find openness to and acceptance of your friends. Life is like that- erratic, impulsive, inquiet and then it ends. There is beauty there and I feel that seeing it is key to moving away from being stuck in ourselves. As Leonard Cohen sings, there is a crack in everything- that's how the light gets in.