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Buddhism and Christianity

SabbySabby Explorer
edited March 2013 in Faith & Religion
Can a Christian become ordained as a Buddhist monk, would there be any conflict. Buddha and Jesus Christ shared a lot of common ground in their teachings. If one believes in a supreme over soul or God and still follows all of Buddha's teachings, the 4 NTs and the 8 FP and all of that would there be any conflict arrising at any point in a monastic life?

Also, if there already has been a thread dedicated to this topic I would appreciate if i could be linked!
Invincible_summerjllEnriqueSpain
«13

Comments

  • Hinduism in the bhagavad gita speaks about exiting the cycle of birth and death. It also recognizes enlightenment and kriya yoga as a path towards enlightenment.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    I think it would conflict eventually. I'm not sure about being "allowed" (or not) to ordain with such beliefs though.

    The concepts of emptiness and dependent origination more or less negate the existence of an omnipotent god. If everything has to "inter-be" (to borrow Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh's language) with everything else, there's no possibility of an independent entity known as God. God would have to come from somewhere, which isn't the case in the Christian cosmology.

    I assume that people who ordain do so to be able to live as a walking expression of deep understanding of Buddha's teachings. If you internally harbour a belief that is quite fundamentally inconsistent with core Buddhist teachings, that's ultimately up to you, but it's definitely going to be a hindrance.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    If one can take and follow honestly all the monk vows without it conflicting with their Christian beliefs, I don't see why not. It also depends on what parts of each religion you grasp and practice. I know a lot of people who believe in the teachings of Jesus but not the teachings of most Christian churches, they often refer to themselves as Christ Followers versus Christians. Just depends, I suppose. You can't really ordain (I don't think?) to be a Buddhist monk and then go about teaching students about Christianity, though. I mean, you couldn't be a Buddhist and then talk about sin and heaven and hell in the traditional manner, for example. I'd be mightily confused if I took on a teacher who was ordained as a Buddhist and started getting talks from the Bible, lol. I'd be curious why someone who identifies as a Christian would want to ordain as a Buddhist monk?
    Invincible_summerSabby
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I think Karasti is on the right track here.

    It is one thing for a lay person to be able to believe whatever he or she wants -- in whatever mix he or she believes to be appropriate. It is quite another thing to be ordained, which to me sets a certain standard of what one believes in and expresses.
    Invincible_summer
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    It is part of the refuge commitments to avoid the worship of personal Gods. The Buddha also suggested that the belief in personal Gods was merely a product of our own fear.

    "No one saves us but ourselves,
    No one can and no one may.
    We ourselves must walk the path,
    But Buddhas clearly show the way."
    The Dhammapada, 165.

    "Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines, but these are not a secure kind of refuge."
    The Dhammapada, 188
    Lucy_Begoodstavros388
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    @TheEccentric it probably varies some depending on tradition. Not all traditions use the same ordination vows, and full vows are different than early vows. I have however taken refuge vows and there is nothing in them about Gods whatsoever. You could read "I take Refuge in the Buddha" as meaning that, but not all traditions do that.

    However, I can see where it would be difficult. You cannot become a monk I don't think without taking refuge vows and precepts (and then monk vows) and once you take them you are committing to being a Buddhist. So, I'm not sure how it would work to declare yourself a Buddhist, but a Christian too, in so far as ordaining of course. Like @vinlyn said for lay people it is quite different.
  • TakuanTakuan Veteran
    edited March 2013
    It's possible. The thing about being Buddhist is, when you get rather deep into your personal practice, you'll begin to have realizations or insights into your mind and the concepts that reside therein. These realizations may challenge your belief in the idea of a Supreme Being within the Judeo-Christian/Islamic context. You may even end up dropping the whole idea of a creator God.

    D.T. Suzuki stated the following about God in "Indian Mahayana Buddhism":

    "If God is the ultimate ground of all things, he must be emptiness itself. When he is at all determined in either way as good or bad, straight or crooked, pure or impure, he submits himself to the principle of relativity, that is he ceases to be God, but a god who is like ourselves mortal and suffers."


    Lucy_BegoodSabbyMaryAnne
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Takuan said:

    It's possible. The thing about being Buddhist is, when you get rather deep into your personal practice, you'll begin to have realizations or insights into your mind and the concepts that reside therein. These realizations may challenge your belief in the idea of a Supreme Being within the Judeo-Christian/Islamic context. You may even end up dropping the whole idea of a creator God.

    D.T. Suzuki stated the following about God in "Indian Mahayana Buddhism":

    "If God is the ultimate ground of all things, he must be emptiness itself. When he is at all determined in either way as good or bad, straight or crooked, pure or impure, he submits himself to the principle of relativity, that is he ceases to be God, but a god who is like ourselves mortal and suffers."


    Which is why many Mystic traditions that believe in a supreme creator ascribe it as being un-knowable and beyond conventionality. An interesting line of thought, But one that is like pointing a finger at the moon only to have people stare at the finger.
    Invincible_summernenkohaistavros388
  • In practice, you probably wouldn't be allowed to join the temple of most places if you want to blend religions. While it might be different in societies like Thailand where just about any male can put on and take off robes, the sanghas in the US tend to have a process of screening and making sure the potential monk is entirely committed and knows what they're getting into. After all, there have been some bad decisions made on who they let become monks in the past.

    You don't have to "denounce Christianity" or other religions, but being accepted as a monk in the school I am familiar with requires the heiarchy to be convinced you'll be satisfied with the role and have a special calling, even. I'm not certain saying you want to be both Christian and a Buddhist monk would satisfy them. Taking refuge in the Buddha means taking refuge in the Buddha.



  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    The truth is the truth.

    You may find this interesting:

    Jason_PDKstavros388cajunman4life
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    A thoughts: As, I believe Ajahn Chah put it, religions are conventions. Buddhist monks may be concerned with being good teachers of Buddhism so that the Dhamma may be here for gerenations to come. I think this may be an issue if you are believing some Dogmatic things from another religion which are conflicting with what the Buddha Dhamma. (Truth)
    MaryAnneSilouan
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    I personally see no issue with combining the two.

    Although Buddhism is generally non-theistic, it is possible to be a Buddhist theist. At its core, even though it has temples, monks, ritual, etc., Buddhism is a way of living. A spiritual philosophy, if you will. One that, to me, is applicable to most other religions and philosophies.

    So if one wishes to follow the teachings of Jesus as well as Buddha, then go on ahead. :)
    Silouan
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I agree when it comes to following the teachings, absolutely. But when one is talking about ordaining as a monk in one tradition or another, it seems (the more I think about it) that devoutness is required. But like I said before, it really depends on a lot of factors, and what one means by "being Christian." Jesus and Buddha both taught very similar things, so it's easy to combine them effectively and for an increased understanding in either or both. But to identify as a Christian, usually there are a lot of things that they believe that would make it really difficult to perform as a Buddhist monk. Not to mention every single person a Buddhist monk comes across is going to believe, rightfully so, that they are a Buddhist. Adding a possibility that a Buddhist monk might actually be Christian adds another difficult layer.

    When I took my refuge vows, my teacher made it very clear that in doing so we were choosing to be Buddhist. That we could choose not to at any point of course, but in taking this step we were confirming that we had investigated Buddha's teachings enough to know it was the right path for us, and that we wanted to commit more strongly to that path.

    I'd still like to know more about the question. Is it just a hypothetical? If not I'd like to know what leads a person to want to ordain in a tradition while still maintaining identity as something else as well.

    If the question was "can a person who believes in what Jesus taught, ordain as a Buddhist monk?" then the answer might be different. In most places identifying as a Christian means far more than simply believing in what Jesus taught.
    MaryAnne
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    @karasti

    I see your point. I guess it would depend on the tradition, but it is possible to be a Christian and be ordained as a Buddhist monk. I've heard of Christians who 100% believe in their faith, who also ordained as Zen monks.
  • jlljll Veteran
    Ask yourself, why are you so attached to christ?
    Buddha taught the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

    of course there is a conflict.
    Sabby said:

    Can a Christian become ordained as a Buddhist monk, would there be any conflict. Buddha and Jesus Christ shared a lot of common ground in their teachings. If one believes in a supreme over soul or God and still follows all of Buddha's teachings, the 4 NTs and the 8 FP and all of that would there be any conflict arrising at any point in a monastic life?

    Also, if there already has been a thread dedicated to this topic I would appreciate if i could be linked!

    Invincible_summer
  • Thich Nhat Hanh has said he has a picture of the Buddha and Jesus at his personal altar. I suppose it really depends on the person and the circumstances-- being a monastic in a particular tradition does mean you have to play by THEIR rules.

    At best, I could imagine learning from other religious traditions, being influenced by them, or perhaps incorporating aspects of another tradition. There are differences between Buddhism and Christianity that can't be reconciled without glossing over those differences. D.T. Suzuki thought highly of Christianity... as represented by Eckhart, but you know, he was declared a heretic by the Catholic church...
    EnriqueSpain
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    jll said:

    Ask yourself, why are you so attached to christ?
    Buddha taught the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

    of course there is a conflict.


    Okay, fine. Why are you so attached to Buddha?

    DaftChrisInvincible_summerCitta
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    edited March 2013
    jll said:

    Ask yourself, why are you so attached to christ?
    Buddha taught the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

    of course there is a conflict.

    Sabby said:

    Can a Christian become ordained as a Buddhist monk, would there be any conflict. Buddha and Jesus Christ shared a lot of common ground in their teachings. If one believes in a supreme over soul or God and still follows all of Buddha's teachings, the 4 NTs and the 8 FP and all of that would there be any conflict arrising at any point in a monastic life?

    Also, if there already has been a thread dedicated to this topic I would appreciate if i could be linked!

    He taught his truth. Which is a truth, but not the truth.

    vinlynkarasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I agree. Buddha taught truth. But so did Jesus, and others.
    @DaftChris thanks for that information, I did not know that about the Zen tradition. Interesting.
    vinlyn
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    The thing that I think everyone is glossing over is the fact that Christianity isn't just about how cool Jesus was. There are a number of other positions and beliefs that come along with it that - at least in most mainstream denominations - are incompatible with Buddhism.

    Hell, even the fundamental idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent God is incompatible.
    MaryAnnestavros388
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    The thing that I think everyone is glossing over is the fact that Christianity isn't just about how cool Jesus was. There are a number of other positions and beliefs that come along with it that - at least in most mainstream denominations - are incompatible with Buddhism.

    Hell, even the fundamental idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent God is incompatible.

    That may be the mainstream viewpoint by Buddhists. Please allow others of us to have a different viewpoint.

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    edited March 2013
    vinlyn said:



    That may be the mainstream viewpoint by Buddhists. Please allow others of us to have a different viewpoint.

    No!! *sweeps books off table dramatically*


    In all seriousness though, how would one reconcile the concept of God (as Christians view God) with Buddhism? If this is a topic that has been beaten to death, I apologize.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    vinlyn said:



    That may be the mainstream viewpoint by Buddhists. Please allow others of us to have a different viewpoint.

    No!! *sweeps books off table dramatically*


    In all seriousness though, how would one reconcile the concept of God (as Christians view God) with Buddhism? If this is a topic that has been beaten to death, I apologize.
    Yes, it has been beaten to death.

    And, you may be correct. Or totally wrong.

    And I may be correct. Or totally wrong.

    Neither of us has proof on our side.

    Invincible_summerStormer
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    karasti said:

    I agree. Buddha taught truth. But so did Jesus, and others.
    @DaftChris thanks for that information, I did not know that about the Zen tradition. Interesting.

    The belief that people deserve an eternity in hell simply for having different beliefs is no truth.
    RuddyDuck9
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    karasti said:

    I agree. Buddha taught truth. But so did Jesus, and others.
    @DaftChris thanks for that information, I did not know that about the Zen tradition. Interesting.

    The belief that people deserve an eternity in hell simply for having different beliefs is no truth.
    Just curious, and not saying that it's true, but how do you KNOW?

    Invincible_summer
  • Can a Christian become ordained as a Buddhist monk
    It might be a little premature.
    A Buddhist would have to focus on Christian teachings to be Christian monk. Healthy cross fertilisation occurs all the time.

    As a meditation on Dukkha, I like to contemplate the 'stations of the cross' mosaics at my local buddhist/catholic church/temple. However I am just a glutton for eternal damnation . . .

    If practicing as a Buddhist monk, one does not say Christian grace, The Lord's Prayer or Jesus prayer etc. For this one becomes a Christian nun. Incidentally a man can become a nun but first he has to change gender. Easier to become a monk, if you have no trans-gender requirements as the Bishop said to the synod . . .

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100047249/church-of-england-bishops-will-be-allowed-to-become-nuns-according-to-synod-source/

    I think you knew the answer to this really?
    Sabby
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    The problem is many people identify Christianity as the religion that they rejected aged 14.
    But there are many strains of Christianity.
    As the Dalai Lama noted the God of Thomas Merton was not different from the Trikaya.
    And was characterised by Sunyata.
    Merton was not alone. There is a whole contemplative tradition in Christianity which has always been there.
    It is found among the monks of Mount Athos.
    It is found in the cell of Mother Julian.
    It is found in 14th century works such as " The Cloud Of Unknowing ".
    It is found in living breathing teachers like Thomas Keating and Lawrence Freeman.
    It is as far from the anthropomorphic Christianity of your sunday school with its anglo-saxon Jesus and threats and promises, as Dzogchen is from Buddhist amulets and the folk rituals of Thailand.

    Its just hard to see past the 14 year old to glimpse it.


  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited March 2013
    vinlyn said:

    The belief that people deserve an eternity in hell simply for having different beliefs is no truth.

    Just curious, and not saying that it's true, but how do you KNOW?
    Not that I want to put words in anybody's mouth, but if you don't mind, I'd like to interject.

    An individual "knowing" there is no eternal Hell would be similar to knowing that the Sun will come up tomorrow. Hypothetically, we don't really know if the Sun will come up tomorrow. The earth could be destroyed by some cosmic blast that resulted from a collapsing star, but we don't know that. For all intents and purposes we say we "know" something because of past experience, from model-making in the mind, through logic, etc.

    Even recognizing that we know things is an entirely baseless assumption, but one of the few we must assume. Everything we know *could* be a lie. But simply because something has a chance of being true or not true doesn't mean we should recognize it as a truly valid idea. Because we'd say we "know" something is or isn't true doesn't mean we are actually asserting that it does for sure without a shadow of a doubt. Considering the idea of an eternal Hell has no evidence to support it (whether direct or indirect), has no natural indication showing that it would exist, has no evidence that past life experiences of individuals who went to Hell were a reality, etc - then it'd be safe to assume that Hell *doesn't* exist. Yes, it could, but why even humor the idea if there'd be no rational reason to? Unless we are to say that we shouldn't base our outlook on reality on reason/evidence - but I'd argue that is kind of silly.
    Sabbyrobot
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    According to various mainstream Buddhist schools hell is very real. Pop over to Dhamma Wheel and they will tell you about all the various hells that await sinners.
    So all the same discussion points apply equally in Buddhism.
    There are outer and inner forms of all paths.
    cazInvincible_summerstavros388Straight_Man
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited March 2013
    As I've said, why are we to humor the idea of hell at all, unless we are to say that we shouldn't base our outlook on reality on reason/evidence - which I'd argue that is kind of silly. For the sake of the fact that I've already had the same discussion many times with Buddhists, many who believe wholeheartedly that literal reincarnation is a reality, I don't really what to get into it. It'd be the same rehashed points. I'll just sum up my above post as an explanation of what is "knowing" when it comes evidence based belief.
  • I don't think whether or not a Buddhist monk believed in a creator God makes much difference. After all, some monks believe in a whole pantheon of demons and guardian spirits and either placating or worshiping these is a big part of their practice. Others believe in soul migration, the ability of dead souls to possess people, etc. Buddhists in general and monks believe all sorts of stuff and manage to incorporate it into their practice. Buddhism is very inclusive. There have been various attempts to form Christian Buddhist groups but none of them have gone far. There don't seem to be that many Christians interested in exploring other religions for some reason.

    I think the biggest problem is what you'd mean by "being Christian" because the way I was raised in the Evangelical church, being Christian is as much a commitment and devotion to Christ as any Buddhist monk is supposed to show toward Buddha. You don't just believe Christ is your savior; you accept Christ as your Lord and work to spread the Gospel and joining the church, the "body of Christ" is as important as a Buddhist joining a sangha. This type of Christianity is very exclusive.
    DaftChrisInvincible_summerstavros388
  • If we interpret Christ's teachings so as to make them equivalent to the Buddha's, as many do, then I cannot see a problem. Christians do not have to believe in omnipotent Gods and all that dogmatic jazz, and many Christians argue that it would be a terrible mistake to do so. If we read the Philokalia, the Nag Hammadi Library, the pseudo-Dionysius, Eckhart and so forth, then it is difficult to find any solid point of difference between the two doctrines. But a sympathetic intepretation would be required.
    lobsterSabby
  • SabbySabby Explorer
    Wow, I love the community here.

    Just to clear things up a bit, I should have worded my post a bit better, but I do not identify myself as a christian through and through. I do agree with all of Jesus' teachings, that i feel relate to buddhism so much. I feel that Jesus was telling us the story of god and Buddha was showing as the path to god (although this is extremely general and there is much more to it). Also, when i mentioned a belief in a God, that is more of a tricky one. I guess it is one of those things that is flawed through conditioning and human language. I equate consciousness as god, not inherently good or bad because i do not know there really is such a thing, I see god or consciousness as no less or more a part of us. when i hear the terms, heaven and hell and kingdom of god and many other christian related terms i know that they are states of consciousness, as Jesus' and Buddha both taught.

    Also, if one ordains as a monk, does that mean they areidentified as a buddhist?
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Erm... yes if they are a Buddhist monk.
    Other brands of monk are available.
  • SMH at the whole discussion......
  • I'm reminded of the bumpersticker that says "Jesus was a Buddhist."
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    MindGate said:

    vinlyn said:

    The belief that people deserve an eternity in hell simply for having different beliefs is no truth.

    Just curious, and not saying that it's true, but how do you KNOW?
    Not that I want to put words in anybody's mouth, but if you don't mind, I'd like to interject.

    An individual "knowing" there is no eternal Hell would be similar to knowing that the Sun will come up tomorrow. Hypothetically, we don't really know if the Sun will come up tomorrow. The earth could be destroyed by some cosmic blast that resulted from a collapsing star, but we don't know that. For all intents and purposes we say we "know" something because of past experience, from model-making in the mind, through logic, etc.

    Even recognizing that we know things is an entirely baseless assumption, but one of the few we must assume. Everything we know *could* be a lie. But simply because something has a chance of being true or not true doesn't mean we should recognize it as a truly valid idea. Because we'd say we "know" something is or isn't true doesn't mean we are actually asserting that it does for sure without a shadow of a doubt. Considering the idea of an eternal Hell has no evidence to support it (whether direct or indirect), has no natural indication showing that it would exist, has no evidence that past life experiences of individuals who went to Hell were a reality, etc - then it'd be safe to assume that Hell *doesn't* exist. Yes, it could, but why even humor the idea if there'd be no rational reason to? Unless we are to say that we shouldn't base our outlook on reality on reason/evidence - but I'd argue that is kind of silly.
    First of all, I remain as unconvinced of hell as I do of rebirth.

    That aside, I think you have a seriously false premise above. I've lived something like 23,177 days, and in 23,177 of those days the sun has risen, while in 0 of those days the sun has not risen.

    On the other hand, I have not died within my scope of memory (or for that matter been reborn), so I have no history on which to base the likelihood of hell existing.

  • SabbySabby Explorer
    @MaryAnne I am just curious as to what your comment ment? SMH at this whole discussion? I apologize if i have said anything to offend or go against any teachings but i would be very humbled if you would explain, thankyou
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Citta said:

    According to various mainstream Buddhist schools hell is very real. Pop over to Dhamma Wheel and they will tell you about all the various hells that await sinners.
    So all the same discussion points apply equally in Buddhism.
    There are outer and inner forms of all paths.

    Thanks Citta. I forgot to mention that, even though Buddhist hell has been represented in dozens of Buddhist temples I've been to, while I don't remember seeing representations of Christian hell in a single church I've visited.

  • SabbySabby Explorer
    And about my comment of would you be identified as a buddhist, i realize how silly that sounds now, i am not even too sure what i ment by that really...
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Cinorjer said:

    I don't think whether or not a Buddhist monk believed in a creator God makes much difference. After all, some monks believe in a whole pantheon of demons and guardian spirits and either placating or worshiping these is a big part of their practice. Others believe in soul migration, the ability of dead souls to possess people, etc. Buddhists in general and monks believe all sorts of stuff and manage to incorporate it into their practice. Buddhism is very inclusive. There have been various attempts to form Christian Buddhist groups but none of them have gone far. There don't seem to be that many Christians interested in exploring other religions for some reason.

    I think the biggest problem is what you'd mean by "being Christian" because the way I was raised in the Evangelical church, being Christian is as much a commitment and devotion to Christ as any Buddhist monk is supposed to show toward Buddha. You don't just believe Christ is your savior; you accept Christ as your Lord and work to spread the Gospel and joining the church, the "body of Christ" is as important as a Buddhist joining a sangha. This type of Christianity is very exclusive.

    Good post.

    The only thing I would point out is that when you say, "There don't seem to be that many Christians interested in exploring other religions for some reason", I would say the same is true of Buddhists who have been Buddhists their whole lives, as opposed to the vast majority of people on this forum who are converts to Buddhism.

    CinorjerSabbyInvincible_summer
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran

    karasti said:

    I agree. Buddha taught truth. But so did Jesus, and others.
    @DaftChris thanks for that information, I did not know that about the Zen tradition. Interesting.

    The belief that people deserve an eternity in hell simply for having different beliefs is no truth.
    As far as I can tell, the historical Jesus never really said anything on the afterlife. Any notion of "hell" and "only Christians will go to heaven" was added later on by Paul or was carried over from other regional religions. The teachings of Christ mirror those of Buddha significantly.

    Also, just to add a point, I get from some of these posts that Christianity is dogmatic. And it certainly can be. However, so can Buddhism. Some schools of Buddhism are very clear with their vision of hell and are not shy about condemning others.

    Sabbyvinlynnenkohai
  • I recommend the following videos on "Salvation or Enlightenment?"

    youtube.com/watch?v=FAATrz9-JBc

    youtube.com/watch?v=uz9FMoxjCEM
  • Some people manage to meld different religious paths together in a way that is quite successful for them, but there is always the danger that in trying to make two different things compatible, you will do no justice to either.

    It is of course possible to find wisdom in and be influenced by other religions without actually trying to become part of that religion. There's nothing wrong with being a Buddhist that thinks Jesus had some good advise and it worthy of respect. The religion of Christianity in it's different forms may not be as neat a fit (though it also depends on what branch of Christianity you are considering). Religions usually have some overlap with each other, since they are all trying to answer the fundemental questions and concerns of mankind, but they are not interchangeable either. I'm not saying definitely don't try combining the two, but that it could end up being quite the balancing act. Ordination could throw a whole nother layer of difficulty on the situation.
    DaftChris said:


    As far as I can tell, the historical Jesus never really said anything on the afterlife. Any notion of "hell" and "only Christians will go to heaven" was added later on by Paul or was carried over from other regional religions. The teachings of Christ mirror those of Buddha significantly.

    That doesn't surprise me, since elaborate descriptions of what was going to happen after you died is a very Christian thing, but not so much a Jewish one. Judaism is more here and now focused.
    riverflowlobsterSabbyEnriqueSpain
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    vinlyn said:


    even though Buddhist hell has been represented in dozens of Buddhist temples I've been to, while I don't remember seeing representations of Christian hell in a single church I've visited.

    Doom paintings/frescos were common in medieval English churches - quite a few examples survived from the 12th and 13th century - Oxford and Cambridge have a few well preserved samples - it was less common after the 16th century.
    Crete has a fabulous collection of frescos in over 800 churches depicting hell.
    Typically they would feature on the West wall or behind the alter on the right to Christ's left, reminding worshippers of the consequence of sin either during or after the sermon.
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    edited March 2013
    You can not follow two paths at once, especially ones with two different destinations, they are completely irreconcilable, how can you believe in heavn and hell and samsara/rebirth at the same time? According to Christianity the Buddha, and all other Dharma teachers are burning in Hell right now simply because they had different beliefs.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    You can not follow two paths at once, especially ones with two different destinations, they are completely irreconcilable, how can you believe in heavn and hell and samsara/rebirth at the same time? According to Christianity the Buddha, and all other Dharma teachers are burning in Hell right now simply because they had different beliefs.

    One thing you need to do is set aside your "old time religion" of the Old Testament, and realize that in many Christian today they read only from the New Testament. And I'm not talking about fringe churches. I'm talking about a middle-of-the-road Methodist Church that I occasionally attend.

    But, I realize that you are fundamentalist Buddhist. So that's all you can see. Okay. No problem.

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