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How long did it take you guys to understand Buddhism

I have a question. A LOT of you guys on here have a lot of knowledge on Buddhism, and I was wondering, how long did it take you guys to understand most of it? I can understand the basics of Buddhism and meditation, but there are some things (as stated in one of my other threads) that make me scratch my head and think:

'How does ______ arise within you when you practice/meditate _____?'

I learn a lot from you guys because the books more or less tell you, if you do this, this will happen. And it doesn't really tell you HOW or WHY it would come to be within you and/or how it will positively affect others.

But like I asked, how long did it take for you to start understanding a lot of the more "deeper" aspects/teachings of Buddhism? And did you have questions like what I'm facing and/or not understand these things?
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Comments

  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited August 2013
    To me, Buddhism can be a very simple, yet profound premise to understand and incorporate into daily life. You've got the 5 precepts, the 4 Noble Truths and the 8 fold path. Not very complex if one doesn't wish to make it complex....

    However, the people who practice various forms of Buddhism ?
    Now there's a group of people that is sometimes really really difficult to understand. ;)
    ericcris10senkarastiKundoVastmind
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    Give it 5-10 years?

    Hard to say really. Depends on so many things.

    /Victor
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    genkaku said:

    Dirty words alert!

    When I first began attending a Zen center whose main activity was zazen or seated meditation, I was full of questions. Occasionally, after an evening silent sitting, there would be an informal tea at which people would chat and munch cookies. And it was during such times that I would listen attentively and occasionally ask questions ... what do you do, how does it work, that sort of thing. There was a lot of new information to absorb and I did my best.

    But at one such informal tea, I was feeling a bit cranky about all these spiffy people sitting around in their spiffy robes and dropping Chinese and Japanese names and nomenclature. And my mind (though luckily not my mouth) exploded, "Why don't you assholes just tell me what I want to know so I can get the fuck out of here?!" I wanted THE ANSWER and I wanted it NOW! No more fakey-humble and oh-so-sincere bullshit ... just gimme THE ANSWER, I can go home, an you guys can play your little spiritually-adroit games!

    Looking back, I'm quite sympathetic to the person I was then. How else was I understand something called "Buddhism" without some sort of intellectual understanding -- the how/why of it all both in general and in particular. Rational thinking was what I knew how to do ... but it was all I knew how to do.

    Luckily, my cranky outburst did not dissuade me from practice and a little at a time, some kind of experience, however limping, began to take hold. Books were good, belief was good, analysis was good, but, as with playing the piano, there is simply no substitute for the experience that practice provides. Experience trumps belief. Experience trumps praise. Experience trumps intellectual and emotional understandings.

    My feeling these days is, go ahead, gather up all the information you like; understand one aspect after another; learn the lingo and ritual; find as many deep or shallow meanings as you choose ... go ahead: It's all a bit of a help.

    But practice ....

    Practice and see what happens.

    Please sir..whats experience ?
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    I have a question. A LOT of you guys on here have a lot of knowledge on Buddhism, and I was wondering, how long did it take you guys to understand most of it? I can understand the basics of Buddhism and meditation, but there are some things (as stated in one of my other threads) that make me scratch my head and think:

    'How does ______ arise within you when you practice/meditate _____?'

    I learn a lot from you guys because the books more or less tell you, if you do this, this will happen. And it doesn't really tell you HOW or WHY it would come to be within you and/or how it will positively affect others.

    But like I asked, how long did it take for you to start understanding a lot of the more "deeper" aspects/teachings of Buddhism? And did you have questions like what I'm facing and/or not understand these things?

    My experience with Buddhism isn't very extensive (only a couple of years), but most of my understanding and many of the lessons I've learned have just come from meditation practice and reading books. It's not that it's intellectual knowledge, and it's not that I have all these great answers lined up for when someone asks me a question. It's just something that I feel I understand at a deeper level, and if the right question is asked, I know how to answer it based on my experience.
    howriverflowericcris10senblu3ree
  • I immediately understood a feeling of giving the dharma a chance and exerting effort. As I saw fruits I knew it was a path. Buddha said his dharma is good in the: beginning, middle, and end.
    Straight_Manlobsterericcris10senkarmablues
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Gentle Man Veteran
    Indeed the path is the key, Jeffrey, for me also. The experienced path, right Genaku.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    I don't understand it. When I grow up I'm going to be a Mormon.
    @Citta -- My dream was always to be a dachshund. Alas, it was not to be! Live and learn.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I think Buddhism seems to be a many layered onion. Each part it's own onion. Just when you think you grasp the very basic level of the 4NT, you discover it goes deeper and deeper. It's not really something, IMO, that can be totally learned or conquered. I think I read or heard that the Buddha's teachings (depending on your tradition, of course) span 84,000 pages or something like that. Compare that to the bible which is what, 700 pages? And people study that for a lifetime, too. Wisdom traditions are meant to be a lifetime of learning and practice. It's not something you can just learn and be done, like basic math. Our lives change every minute, with every breath, and every time we change, Buddhism can apply in new and different ways.
    misterCopeericcris10sen
  • misterCopemisterCope PA, USA Veteran
    @karasti, why does it have to be an onion? Why not a cake? Cakes have layers! :D
    mfranzdorfericcris10sen
  • 84,000 pages
    gates

    We get to gates. We get thought them. We can move back and forth.
    As people say, you can run, you can sutra study, you can chant, you can Yidam yourself, you can take empowerments from Manjushri and the Buddha herself. One day you are going to have to sit with only 'your self'.

    One day the 'non self' will start to 'unfold'. Like a lotus. Like you have read about in a multitude of ways.
    This is the real beginning.

    You are the Buddha. No more. No less.

    Nothing more. Nothing less.
    Quite ordinary.
    misterCopekarastiDavetheseekerericcris10sen
  • And did you have questions like what I'm facing and not understand these things?
    I think most of us here can say that there was difficulty and frustration in the beginning. But I think for most of us there was an uncanny affinity for it from the beginning also. I think if you really look at what is drawing you to it, you'll see what you really want out of it.. in other words these end goals aren't as far away as we think.
    lobsterericcris10sen
  • what games do we play?

    Is ignorance a game? When the Buddha looked around at the people around him, he noticed they were all enlightened but not awake to the fact. Ignorance, clinging, skhandas had obscured their pristine and pure nature.

    In effect the Buddha decided that the acquisition and development of mind states, which he had excelled at, was effectively, useless. It was a form of witchcraft in modern parlance and spiritual glamour. Look at me, I can sit with my head up my ass. Look at me, starved meself silly, must be sincere. Hey I can quote the vedas/sutras and therefore I know what I am talking about. I had this secret mantra whispered by the secret Buddha of the Himalayas and . . .
    . . . games . . .

    You will have yours. I have mine.

    Then a remarkable thing. We stop trying to impress others, ourself. We stop being impressed by the world, the spiritual path, the glam rock and roll dharma. We decide to get serious. No more games? Not ready? Games galore . . . carry on. Play on.

    Some will be ready. Some have been ready. Some are always ready. Now what? Now you practice. Not as a game. Not for reward. Not for Buddha or your future salvation. Not for nothing.

    You want to be told this again. Game? You want to hear it another way? Game!

    You go to the basics. You have always had them. Nothing has been hidden from you. You play, the master game.

    Your choice. Are you ready yet?

    Game on! :vimp:
    ericcris10sen
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Its very easy to understand.

    Purifying the mind of all Non virtue & Cultivating virtue such as Morality, Compassion, Wisdom. Destroying the true cause of Suffering and getting what we've always wanted real unchanging happiness.

    lobsterTheEccentricDavetheseekerericcris10sen
  • It probably depends on what we want to understand. The practice, the metaphysics, the soteriology, the history, the psychology, the cosmology or whatever. Some aspects of these are not too time consuming for a rough understanding. But to understand the doctrine fully would mean understanding the world fully, and this could never be a quick task.

    To gain an intellectual 'understanding' unsupported by practice is possible, I would say, via the study of metaphysics, but in the end such a superficial understanding would be a pretty worthless thing, other than that it may bring some confidence in the teachings.

    My answer would be that the initial question is unanswerable without some further definition of 'understanding'.

    ericcris10sen
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    The reason I can call myself Buddhist is because as soon as I studied it, I understood it and it felt right. Then I understood it differently... Then I understood it differently again.

    Each time it could have been easy to think I had it all wrapped up but I tend to scrutinize and a thread comes lose.

    A little part of me says not understanding is a big part of understanding but I don't understand.
    JeffreyKundo
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    Florian said:

    It probably depends on what we want to understand. The practice, the metaphysics, the soteriology, the history, the psychology, the cosmology or whatever. Some aspects of these are not too time consuming for a rough understanding. But to understand the doctrine fully would mean understanding the world fully, and this could never be a quick task.

    To gain an intellectual 'understanding' unsupported by practice is possible, I would say, via the study of metaphysics, but in the end such a superficial understanding would be a pretty worthless thing, other than that it may bring some confidence in the teachings.

    My answer would be that the initial question is unanswerable without some further definition of 'understanding'.

    I don't know... A superficial understanding could help ease suffering if guided by wisdom and compassion. Healing and working with current conditions for good of us all.

  • Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation. I've only been practicing Buddhism since January so it seems like, from all the comments, that I should wait and continue practicing and reading for maybe a couple more years until perhaps then, I will gain an understanding of it. I'm not in a rush to gain total understanding and enlightenment (I'm FAR from it), it's just I've been reading a lot of books and the one I'm reading now 'Commit to Sit' has some GREAT information in the book, and I've been reading pages after pages of it some I just wanted to know, but I'm sure my time will come :)

    I'm currently doing the Meditation Challenge. Where you meditate for a full month, 2 times a day for 20 minutes long. And each week has a different type of meditation you do, and each weekend, there's a different Challenge they want to see if you can do. It's damn hard because I've had trouble meditating for 20 minutes in the past but so far I've been doing fine.
    lobsterVastmindkarmablues
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited August 2013
    The rush can get in the way. For example if you are thinking what things are supposed to be you are distracted from concentration of not worrying and being present. The path is letting go. We can't let go as well with agitation or dullness that comes from over pressure. Just tune into the space that is always there. The space will never give up on you; you can always meet the space regardless of the movie of imagining where you should be. I'm not hitting it quite, but I'll type nonetheless.
  • GuiGui Veteran

    Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation. I've only been practicing Buddhism since January so it seems like, from all the comments, that I should wait and continue practicing and reading for maybe a couple more years until perhaps then, I will gain an understanding of it. I'm not in a rush to gain total understanding and enlightenment (I'm FAR from it), it's just I've been reading a lot of books and the one I'm reading now 'Commit to Sit' has some GREAT information in the book, and I've been reading pages after pages of it some I just wanted to know, but I'm sure my time will come :)

    I'm currently doing the Meditation Challenge. Where you meditate for a full month, 2 times a day for 20 minutes long. And each week has a different type of meditation you do, and each weekend, there's a different Challenge they want to see if you can do. It's damn hard because I've had trouble meditating for 20 minutes in the past but so far I've been doing fine.



    Yup. Just keep on truckin'
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited August 2013
    ^^------ As my pic illustrates..... I'm still learning. :) More everyday.
  • Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation.

    Ah. That's not quite the question I thought you were asking. This one is more difficult.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran

    Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation.

    It seems to happen right before I notice that my mind has wandered.



  • It happens because the nature of mind is openness, clarity, and sensitivity. If we don't have the nature of clarity there would be no possibility to become enlightened let alone to cook or sew or watch after children.
  • The more and more I play this game called Buddhism I find that I know absolutely nothing about it.

    Like I'll read, absorb, explore, and make an experiential reality of the teachings.

    Then I'll read, absorb, explore and make an experiential reality of teachings that contradict the previous learning.

    Buddhism is seemingly complex and seemingly simple.

    And then you have the whole issue of everyone saying this or that. That knowledge is bad but experience is good. Or that experience is bad and knowledge is good.

    But all that aside.

    The deeper aspects of the teachings only made sense once I became kinder, relatable, and human. It is that simple.
    lobsterericcris10senDaiva
  • Florian said:

    Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation.

    Ah. That's not quite the question I thought you were asking. This one is more difficult.

    Well my main question was how long it took for you guys to retain knowledge of what you've learned (in a sense) or how long it took for you to understand what you've read or have been taught. But that quote you have, was on one of my other threads, but is still something I ponder.

    @taiyaki awesome post :)
  • Yes nice post, taiyaki. Are you reading texts from multiple streams? They define terms differently and emphasize differently. For example Gelug emphasizes the prajna paramita whereas Kagyu emphasize Vajrayana Maha Ati.
  • edited August 2013
    taiyaki said:

    The more and more I play this game called Buddhism I find that I know absolutely nothing about it.

    Like I'll read, absorb, explore, and make an experiential reality of the teachings.

    Then I'll read, absorb, explore and make an experiential reality of teachings that contradict the previous learning.

    Buddhism is seemingly complex and seemingly simple.

    And then you have the whole issue of everyone saying this or that. That knowledge is bad but experience is good. Or that experience is bad and knowledge is good.

    But all that aside.

    The deeper aspects of the teachings only made sense once I became kinder, relatable, and human. It is that simple.

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."

    Walt Whitman
    lobstermisterCopeInvincible_summer
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    taiyaki said:

    The more and more I play this game called Buddhism I find that I know absolutely nothing about it.

    Like I'll read, absorb, explore, and make an experiential reality of the teachings.

    Then I'll read, absorb, explore and make an experiential reality of teachings that contradict the previous learning.

    Buddhism is seemingly complex and seemingly simple.

    And then you have the whole issue of everyone saying this or that. That knowledge is bad but experience is good. Or that experience is bad and knowledge is good.

    But all that aside.

    The deeper aspects of the teachings only made sense once I became kinder, relatable, and human. It is that simple.

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."

    Walt Whitman
    Absolutely. Many of our problems with Dharma stem from a need to understand stuff that is alogical.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran


    But like I asked, how long did it take for you to start understanding a lot of the more "deeper" aspects/teachings of Buddhism?

    I think it's practice that gives one a real feel for the Dharma.
    CittaDavetheseekerericcris10senkarmablues
  • Florian said:

    Thank you, you guys. Like I said in my previous thread, I always wanted to know HOW certain wisdom or feelings/emotions come to us through meditation.

    Ah. That's not quite the question I thought you were asking. This one is more difficult.

    Well my main question was how long it took for you guys to retain knowledge of what you've learned (in a sense) or how long it took for you to understand what you've read or have been taught. But that quote you have, was on one of my other threads, but is still something I ponder.

    @taiyaki awesome post :)
    I got off to a quick start, but even so I reckon it was five years of fairly continuous study (for a dissertation) backed up by sporadic Zen-like practice, before I began to think I had some real understanding, Even now, five years later, I would be loath to say I had a good understanding, especially here, but it's relatively good (since most people have no understanding at all) and it's good enough for me. I have no wish to understand the dhamma better. Intellectual understanding is not so difficult. The difficult part is living it, becoming it, putting it into practice, walking the walk. turning a theoretical understanding into a living reality. I don't know how long this will take. I supect at least twenty more lifetimes, assuming I'm even heading in the right direction.
    ericcris10sen
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Gentle Man Veteran
    I would have to answer that Buddhism, and for that matter no other life walk, is completed in a set time. Thus, we never have complete understanding of it, and should not expect such. That is how it is for me that only appears to be, now, anyway.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Clearly for anyone who wants to garner lots of 'awesomes' and 'insightfuls ' this thread is a steal.
    Just modestly deny any understanding of Buddhism and sit back and watch your wee crop sprout like mushrooms in a damp forest...
    TheEccentricChaz
  • Bloody rude post if you ask me.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited August 2013
    It was supposed to be funny...but of course if one is heretical about green issues no good motive will be ascribed.. The trembling finger points........
    vinlyn
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Citta said:

    ... watch your wee crop sprout like mushrooms in a damp forest...

    Mmmm, quorn... ;)
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Citta said:

    ... watch your wee crop sprout like mushrooms in a damp forest...

    Mmmm, quorn... ;)
    :lol: Yes my thoughts had turned to lunch too.
  • lol @Florian I saw nothing rude about @Citta's post :)
    vinlyn
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    lol @Florian I saw nothing rude about @Citta's post :)

    Clearly you weren't trying hard enough @ericcris10sen... ;)
    ericcris10sen
  • Forget modesty.

    Buddhism didn't make sense until I studied dependent origination and emptiness exclusively. They are pointing to the same thing.

    What I found ignorance to be is a persistent: I got this, I know this, I get this. Ignorance isn't something we don't have but what we believe we have.

    And in line with that emptiness points to a lack of something, not a nothingness.

    The subtly takes quite an intelligence.

    Basically when I first was learning this stuff I tripped over my own misunderstandings, my own shit. I felt like I've smarter in the last couple years.

    These teachings have humbled me, pissed me off, made me lose my shit countless times, brought so much joy and love I can't even express, and they continually keep giving.

    The more I am willing to be kind and compassion the more these wisdom teachings make sense. And the more I cut away at the sea of kleshas the more I viscerally feel that I am actually doing something useful with my life.

    As a 25 year old male. That is a lot.

    I don't even dare claim to have understood emptiness fully. I've had a couple successes and many failures. And that is the spiritual journey, rather any journey that we devote ourselves to. WE are going to fuck up, bad. We are going to weep. We are going to drop all this and run for the hills.

    But you can't escape your own mind. Ha so it all begins with pardon my language, some balls to just sit and look at that mind.
    VastmindDaivalobsterericcris10sen
  • DaivaDaiva Veteran
    I drink my green juice every day, and enjoy my mushrooms with a little garlic. I don't have to understand why this is, just that it is.
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Florian said:

    Bloody rude post if you ask me.

    Complaining about a post being rude and then saying "bloody" is a bit like complaining about obesity while eating a quarter pounder.

    And sorry but it was funny.
    vinlynJeffreyChazericcris10sen
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