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Perhaps you are. One who's manifested as a pain in NewBuddhist's ass.
Reminds me something the zen teacher said.
If you do together action, your good and bad actions already help other people.
It's like washing potatoes. When people wash potatoes in Korea, instead of washing them one at a time, they put them all in a tub full of water. Then someone puts a stick in the tub and pushes it up and down, up and down. This makes the potatoes rub against each other; as they bump into each other, the hard crusty dirt falls off. If you wash potatoes one at a time, it takes a long time to clean each one, and only one potato gets clean at a time. If they are all together, many potatoes clean each other.
Sometimes you bump into other people. But soon you see you are only bumping into your own karma.
Yeah, I agree. I don't enjoy much of what happens here, but I understand that we are all experiencing our own karma. I don't mind any of it, but it does puzzle me. Alas, we can only experience what we have created the causes for. It comes down to self-responsibility.
Do you think that the point I make is invalid? As I understand it, Buddhism is about our own minds. So, unless i'm wrong, your perceptions of me are caused by your mind, not my actions. Is that wrong? Even if I am consistently misinterpreted as so and so, that doesn't mean that I am, it just means that is how you (and others) perceive me, and the point of Buddhism is that we cannot trust our perceptions, as we are deluded and ignorant... or, at least, this is as I understand it. If i'm getting it wrong then correct me. I will admit that my study of Buddhism is narrow.
No, I don't think it's invalid, but I do think it's a two-way street. Suttas like MN 61, for example, make it clear that our actions can causing suffering for others; and when we reflect upon our actions and see that this is the case, the skillful thing to do is generally to refrain from doing those kinds of actions in the future. I suppose one could counter this by saying that this teaching doesn't apply to realized beings like bodhisattvas, but I'm admittedly skeptical that this particular forum is frequented by hordes of realized beings, and suspect that the teachings in suttas like MN 61 are relevant to most of us here.
I'm not sure. I think it depends on the context. I don't enjoy that others get upset at me, and, in another context, i'd definitely change my actions. I would never speak like this at work with addicts, that is a given. But this is a different context. This is a Buddhism forum, and whilst my actions might stir the pot, as you put it, they shouldn't be judged on whether they stir the pot but on whether they are valid.
Well, unfortunately, that's not how most webforums work. They usually have some level of moderation and limits on what's acceptable and what's not. Just because this is a Buddhist webforum doesn't mean anything goes. The primary rule here, as expressed by @Lincoln, is: "'Don't be a jerk' (aka 'talk like you're in our living room)." That means a certain amount of pot stirring is fine; but there are limits, and sometimes it doesn't matter if someone has a valid point if the way they're making it causes a lot of disruption in the community or devolves into squabbling or worse. I'm not saying that's the case right now, mind you; I'm just letting you now how we do things here and why some of these threads (like the one on Kurt Cobain, for example) get sunk, closed, or dumped.
I do not think I am a Bodhisattva. That is not the point of that thread. I think you know this. Are you not stirring the pot by saying this?
I'm not the one comparing myself to Jesus or suggesting I'm getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones, exposing the bullshit, and should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum. Just saying.
@Jeffrey, I'd be grateful if you would re-read my posts in this thread, as I believe you have missed the crucial part that bodhisattva means bound up with passion and delight for enlightenment.
One problem is that I don't think it is possible to judge a person by their words on a screen.
There is nothing *but* your words on a screen to judge with. And there is plenty to be determined about your ideas by the words you typed onto the screen. What else do I have with which to evaluate your words? Since you did not specify in your OP that you are seeking agreement, exclusively, I'm using what information is available.
It is just too cute to throw up this kind of response when you receive criticism. Not just you, when anyone throws up that straw man 'the real person' behind the words like that has ANYTHING to do with addressing the responses you are getting!
I feel confident I would like you very much, I thoroughly enjoy the 'kids' in my kids' cohort I'm an old middle aged grandmother trying to type around a massive white cat who is offended my hands are typing and not stroking him, while my own kids, 27 and 30 are drinking beer and having a Guitar Hero competition twenty yards away with all their friends and wives and a couple kids.
In fact, just from your words, I can sense you are sincere and kind-hearted. I can tell you enjoy a lively debate, and that it means very much to you to be right. I can tell you have cultivated a capacity for 'reasoning' away those presenting challenges to you ideas. I can tell you are intelligent, but that you've yet to grasp there other 'tools' to make sense of life than intellect, but rarely smart folks your age do. That is NOT an insult, it is merely an observation by virtue of vantage point. The human mind develops to a certain point and then seems to 'undevelop' past a certain point. I must say there is so much more available to understand now that I don't take how smart I am so seriously.
You, as a being, are invaluable and not subject to judgment. Your ideas, on the other hand, are on the table. You are not your ideas, or your intelligence or your accomplishments. You confuse criticism of your ideas with criticism of you, but I personally am only criticizing the processes of your mind.
I don't quite believe you when you say you are quite comfortable inside your mind and self, your behavior (as evidenced by your OP, and responses to it) says otherwise. HOWEVER, that is OK!!! That is fantastic, and completely a good thing, not bad. It's OK to admit you are struggling to understand, I already know that. It's a bit stinky to deny your struggle to me, but it doesn't matter, we're all struggling off and on
Gassho
But I do love having my ideas and thoughts challenged. That's why i'm here. I don't protest that people argue my points, I protest that they argue the person that I am. You ask what else can I be judged on here? Well, nothing! Don't judge! You yourself seem like a very wise and respectful individual, and I appreciate the tone of your words, but at the same time, I don't think it is possible for you to use my words here as a representation of who I am in life. This is just a context... a very, very small context that occupies a small fraction of my life. You don't need to work me out, I don't need to work you out. There's enough wonderful ideas to discuss without speculating on the person discussing them. Let's just enjoy the ideas.
I'm not the one comparing myself to Jesus or suggesting I'm getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones, exposing the bullshit, and should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum. Just saying.
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I don't think one would need to take the specific vows in order to manifest as a bodhisattva. The vows are there to guide those of us seeking to liberate others but it's possible to live up to the vows without taking them.
It isn't like being a bodhisattva is a priveledge granted by an authority figure, lol!
If someone or something serves as a catalyst for even the smallest stepping stone on our way to awakening, it could be a bodhisattva.
I think I can spot a bodhisattva even if they don't recognize themselves as one.
@Jeffrey, I'd be grateful if you would re-read my posts in this thread, as I believe you have missed the crucial part that bodhisattva means bound up with passion and delight for enlightenment.
Not if they complete all of the Bhumis. Then they are Buddhas.
The bhūmis are subcategories of the Five Paths (pañcamārga, Wylie Tibetan lam lnga):[1]
The path of accumulation (saṃbhāra-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: tshogs lam). Persons on this Path: Possess a strong desire to overcome suffering, either their own or others; Renounce the worldly life.[1] The path of preparation or application (prayoga-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: sbyor lam). Persons on this Path: Start practicing meditation; Have analytical knowledge of emptiness.[1] The path of seeing (darśana-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: mthong lam). Persons on this Path: Practice profound concentration meditation on the nature of reality; Realize the emptiness of reality.[1] The path of meditation (bhāvanā-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: sgom lam). Persons on this path purify themselves and accumulate wisdom.[1] The path of no more learning or consummation (aśaikṣā-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: mi slob pa’i lam or thar phyin pa'i lam). Persons on this Path have completely purified themselves.[1]
Passage through the grounds and paths begins with Bodhicitta, the wish to liberate all sentient beings. Aspiring Bodhicitta becomes Engaging Bodhicitta upon actual commitment to the Bodhisattva vows. With these steps, the practitioner becomes a Bodhisattva, and enters upon the paths.[2]
I'm not the one comparing myself to Jesus or suggesting I'm getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones, exposing the bullshit, and should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum. Just saying.
Is this stirring the pot?
Perhaps, or perhaps it's just me getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones and exposing the bullshit. Personally, I think it's a bit of both.
It was a cheeky response on my part, and I apologize for that; but those were your words and I think they go to show that you're trying to stir people up at least a little bit and possibly even see yourself as a bodhisattva of sorts, or justify my perception of such.
I think I get what you're saying and what you're doing in some respect, though. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me you're trying to be a mirror of sorts, to reflect our minds back towards ourselves to get us to see them more clearly. And in doing so, you're also challenging our preconceived notions and perceptions.
That's the impression that I get, at least, and that's what my response was intending to do, to reflect your mind through your words back at you so that you can at least see how they appear to many of us.
When you compare yourself to Jesus and say things like you're getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones, exposing the bullshit, and should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum, it can come across as a bit arrogant or like you're trying to stir people up, at least a little bit, and may possibly even see yourself as a bodhisattva of sorts.
Whether or not that's actually the case, if a lot of people are perceiving it in that way, it may not hurt to try a different approach. It's just a suggestion, though, and I'll leave it at that. No more pot stirring on my end. At least in this thread, that is.
For the record....I am trying to meet you....and I want you to meet me....that's the only way I can connect to/with you. Do you mean meet/know is just ..."Hi, my name is Chuck...dont ask nothing else"? ...... Just my style I guess.....I want to know a little more about how you 'be' in the world....then I can rap Dharma with you
You seem to be pushing the book at me...but not showing much compassion/concern/interest in what I got going on.
Are you responsible for that part? Of all the threads of mine....your absent. I need some love with my truth...just sayin'....
I'm not here for this, sorry. Different strokes, I guess. I wish you all the happiness in the world, but if you are looking for love / friendship / connection then i'd encourage you to seek that in your personal life. If you can't, for whatever reasons, and I certainly understand some of what those reasons might be, then so be it, I hope you find and enjoy quality relationships online, but it's not for me. I come here once in a while for some discussion, that is all. You have all my love, and if we ever meet in person then i'll give you a big hug, but it's probably not going to be felt here... not because it is not there, but because it's a very limited format for its expression, and from previous experience it doesn't tend to work out too well. I respect your reasons for being here, I hope you get what you are looking for, but i'm here for something different.
@fivebells the heart sutra also says there is no path no wisdom etc.. Thus it is ludicrous to say that a bodhisattva is attached to quenching of the delight for enlightenment.
I think that the unfolding of a Bodhisattva activity is enacted as the personification of selflessness, which poorly describes someone labeling themselves as a Bodhisattva
One problem is that I don't think it is possible to judge a person by their words on a screen.
There is nothing *but* your words on a screen to judge with. And there is plenty to be determined about your ideas by the words you typed onto the screen. What else do I have with which to evaluate your words? Since you did not specify in your OP that you are seeking agreement, exclusively, I'm using what information is available.
It is just too cute to throw up this kind of response when you receive criticism. Not just you, when anyone throws up that straw man 'the real person' behind the words like that has ANYTHING to do with addressing the responses you are getting!
I feel confident I would like you very much, I thoroughly enjoy the 'kids' in my kids' cohort I'm an old middle aged grandmother trying to type around a massive white cat who is offended my hands are typing and not stroking him, while my own kids, 27 and 30 are drinking beer and having a Guitar Hero competition twenty yards away with all their friends and wives and a couple kids.
In fact, just from your words, I can sense you are sincere and kind-hearted. I can tell you enjoy a lively debate, and that it means very much to you to be right. I can tell you have cultivated a capacity for 'reasoning' away those presenting challenges to you ideas. I can tell you are intelligent, but that you've yet to grasp there other 'tools' to make sense of life than intellect, but rarely smart folks your age do. That is NOT an insult, it is merely an observation by virtue of vantage point. The human mind develops to a certain point and then seems to 'undevelop' past a certain point. I must say there is so much more available to understand now that I don't take how smart I am so seriously.
You, as a being, are invaluable and not subject to judgment. Your ideas, on the other hand, are on the table. You are not your ideas, or your intelligence or your accomplishments. You confuse criticism of your ideas with criticism of you, but I personally am only criticizing the processes of your mind.
I don't quite believe you when you say you are quite comfortable inside your mind and self, your behavior (as evidenced by your OP, and responses to it) says otherwise. HOWEVER, that is OK!!! That is fantastic, and completely a good thing, not bad. It's OK to admit you are struggling to understand, I already know that. It's a bit stinky to deny your struggle to me, but it doesn't matter, we're all struggling off and on
Gassho
But I do love having my ideas and thoughts challenged. That's why i'm here. I don't protest that people argue my points, I protest that they argue the person that I am. You ask what else can I be judged on here? Well, nothing! Don't judge! You yourself seem like a very wise and respectful individual, and I appreciate the tone of your words, but at the same time, I don't think it is possible for you to use my words here as a representation of who I am in life. This is just a context... a very, very small context that occupies a small fraction of my life. You don't need to work me out, I don't need to work you out. There's enough wonderful ideas to discuss without speculating on the person discussing them. Let's just enjoy the ideas.
Not sure there is a difference. It doesn't matter what is 'the person you are', not really. Still, it seems you are still confusing remarks about your words as being also about 'the person you are', which is untrue. Perhaps you are making a distinction that is not really there. The only thing 'wrong' with that is it may prevent you from receiving feedback that will help you on your Path.
Of course your words are a representation of who you are in life!! Why avoid taking responsibility like that? It is possible to use them in such a way, and that is true wherever you speak or write or communicate in any way. This is just another clever way to absolve yourself of responsibility. We do share responsibility, of course, but the operant word is SHARE. What you hide from yourself is not necessarily hidden from others.
It is impossible and un-genuine to 'not speculate' on the person behind the idea, and it will never happen in real life. There is no escape . That's because the two are BOTH expressions of being, equally relevant and equally informative. An idea without a person behind it cannot exist, it's simple conditioned arising.
Rejoice as another bodhisattva enters the world of suffering with the aim of liberating everyone from suffering though it seems an impossible task.
Now I am humbled to ask the simple question of a great stream enterer as to how they can strive for enlightenment for all sentient beings when they are imprisoned by their own actions.
Answer me this @mindatrisk. This is not facetious for if you are bodhisattva and strive for my liberation your being bound burdens my belief in bodhisattvas. Please answer me the following:
Dearest bodhisattva what is humility?
Beloved bodhisattva how do I show humility, when I do not understand what it is?
Comments
Yeah, I agree. I don't enjoy much of what happens here, but I understand that we are all experiencing our own karma. I don't mind any of it, but it does puzzle me. Alas, we can only experience what we have created the causes for. It comes down to self-responsibility.
It is just too cute to throw up this kind of response when you receive criticism. Not just you, when anyone throws up that straw man 'the real person' behind the words like that has ANYTHING to do with addressing the responses you are getting!
I feel confident I would like you very much, I thoroughly enjoy the 'kids' in my kids' cohort
In fact, just from your words, I can sense you are sincere and kind-hearted. I can tell you enjoy a lively debate, and that it means very much to you to be right. I can tell you have cultivated a capacity for 'reasoning' away those presenting challenges to you ideas. I can tell you are intelligent, but that you've yet to grasp there other 'tools' to make sense of life than intellect, but rarely smart folks your age do. That is NOT an insult, it is merely an observation by virtue of vantage point. The human mind develops to a certain point and then seems to 'undevelop' past a certain point. I must say there is so much more available to understand now that I don't take how smart I am so seriously.
You, as a being, are invaluable and not subject to judgment. Your ideas, on the other hand, are on the table. You are not your ideas, or your intelligence or your accomplishments. You confuse criticism of your ideas with criticism of you, but I personally am only criticizing the processes of your mind.
I don't quite believe you when you say you are quite comfortable inside your mind and self, your behavior (as evidenced by your OP, and responses to it) says otherwise. HOWEVER, that is OK!!! That is fantastic, and completely a good thing, not bad. It's OK to admit you are struggling to understand, I already know that. It's a bit stinky to deny your struggle to me, but it doesn't matter, we're all struggling off and on
Gassho
But I do love having my ideas and thoughts challenged. That's why i'm here. I don't protest that people argue my points, I protest that they argue the person that I am. You ask what else can I be judged on here? Well, nothing! Don't judge! You yourself seem like a very wise and respectful individual, and I appreciate the tone of your words, but at the same time, I don't think it is possible for you to use my words here as a representation of who I am in life. This is just a context... a very, very small context that occupies a small fraction of my life. You don't need to work me out, I don't need to work you out. There's enough wonderful ideas to discuss without speculating on the person discussing them. Let's just enjoy the ideas.
It isn't like being a bodhisattva is a priveledge granted by an authority figure, lol!
If someone or something serves as a catalyst for even the smallest stepping stone on our way to awakening, it could be a bodhisattva.
I think I can spot a bodhisattva even if they don't recognize themselves as one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhūmi_(Buddhism)
http://www.heartspace.org/writings/traditional/TenBhumis.html (better than wikipedia)
The bhūmis are subcategories of the Five Paths (pañcamārga, Wylie Tibetan lam lnga):[1]
The path of accumulation (saṃbhāra-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: tshogs lam). Persons on this Path:
Possess a strong desire to overcome suffering, either their own or others;
Renounce the worldly life.[1]
The path of preparation or application (prayoga-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: sbyor lam). Persons on this Path:
Start practicing meditation;
Have analytical knowledge of emptiness.[1]
The path of seeing (darśana-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: mthong lam). Persons on this Path:
Practice profound concentration meditation on the nature of reality;
Realize the emptiness of reality.[1]
The path of meditation (bhāvanā-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: sgom lam). Persons on this path purify themselves and accumulate wisdom.[1]
The path of no more learning or consummation (aśaikṣā-mārga, Wylie Tibetan: mi slob pa’i lam or thar phyin pa'i lam). Persons on this Path have completely purified themselves.[1]
Passage through the grounds and paths begins with Bodhicitta, the wish to liberate all sentient beings. Aspiring Bodhicitta becomes Engaging Bodhicitta upon actual commitment to the Bodhisattva vows. With these steps, the practitioner becomes a Bodhisattva, and enters upon the paths.[2]
It was a cheeky response on my part, and I apologize for that; but those were your words and I think they go to show that you're trying to stir people up at least a little bit and possibly even see yourself as a bodhisattva of sorts, or justify my perception of such.
I think I get what you're saying and what you're doing in some respect, though. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me you're trying to be a mirror of sorts, to reflect our minds back towards ourselves to get us to see them more clearly. And in doing so, you're also challenging our preconceived notions and perceptions.
That's the impression that I get, at least, and that's what my response was intending to do, to reflect your mind through your words back at you so that you can at least see how they appear to many of us.
When you compare yourself to Jesus and say things like you're getting between the cracks of spiritual comfort zones, exposing the bullshit, and should be regarded as an absolute blessing in a Buddhist forum, it can come across as a bit arrogant or like you're trying to stir people up, at least a little bit, and may possibly even see yourself as a bodhisattva of sorts.
Whether or not that's actually the case, if a lot of people are perceiving it in that way, it may not hurt to try a different approach. It's just a suggestion, though, and I'll leave it at that. No more pot stirring on my end. At least in this thread, that is.
Edited to make it clear I was responding to Jeffrey.
I think that the unfolding of a Bodhisattva activity is enacted as the personification of selflessness,
which poorly describes someone labeling themselves as a Bodhisattva
Was that supposed to sound nice?
Oh well...that's ok.....I can catch shade.
I get no love from my personal life...so I'm
glad you gave me some.
Yeah...no arrogance there.
dueces, dude!
(sorry, I just couldn't resist guys! LOL)
Not sure there is a difference. It doesn't matter what is 'the person you are', not really. Still, it seems you are still confusing remarks about your words as being also about 'the person you are', which is untrue. Perhaps you are making a distinction that is not really there. The only thing 'wrong' with that is it may prevent you from receiving feedback that will help you on your Path.
Of course your words are a representation of who you are in life!! Why avoid taking responsibility like that? It is possible to use them in such a way, and that is true wherever you speak or write or communicate in any way. This is just another clever way to absolve yourself of responsibility. We do share responsibility, of course, but the operant word is SHARE. What you hide from yourself is not necessarily hidden from others.
It is impossible and un-genuine to 'not speculate' on the person behind the idea, and it will never happen in real life. There is no escape
Gassho
We really need an emoticon eating a big box of popcorn....
You are a bodhisattva
Thank you
Now I am humbled to ask the simple question of a great stream enterer as to how they can strive for enlightenment for all sentient beings when they are imprisoned by their own actions.
Answer me this @mindatrisk. This is not facetious for if you are bodhisattva and strive for my liberation your being bound burdens my belief in bodhisattvas. Please answer me the following:
Dearest bodhisattva what is humility?
Beloved bodhisattva how do I show humility, when I do not understand what it is?