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An Atheist doesn't have to be angry first of all, hell, Atheists are the happiest group (not that they are a group) of people I know aside from Mormons, so you might want to check Mormonism out.......
It kills me when people see a few Atheists's misconduct and group Atheists with attacking, angry, sinful, etc... I have never been as happy as I am since I have turned away from Theism and religion. Sure, I may use some simple Buddhism concepts as sort of a Psycho therapy, but it's just that, I don't simply "believe" anything in Buddhism, I have cherry picked what I want, used them in my life and pushed all the tales and myths and things that require simply believing aside, because in this life Chris, simply believing, faith, whatever you want to call it, is nonsense... Now I know a lot of people that DEEP inside, they know their faith is flawed and probably wrong, but they don't care, it makes them feel warm and cuddly inside and cared about, they aren't strong enough to make it without religion, and it's not their faults, they can be strong enough, I was one of those people as a teen. But I found that much more growth, truth, beauty, and wisdom comes outside of ancient belief systems, religions, cults, holy books, whatever people like turning to for what they think is "security". Well, it may make you feel secure, but I personally don't care about security when I can't think for myself, when I am a prisoner in a set system, a mind control system, and that is exactly what religion is. It's all bull.
Now, me being an A-theist, I will never tell you that there isn't a God, I wouldn't say that. I don't say there isn't a God, I just simply don't get involved in the discussion, however, me personally, I have never experienced anything in my life that would make me believe that there is a God. So my whole point is not necessarily telling you to push away God, for lack of a better word, maybe higher power? But to give up on these religious journeys, because in the end, for the rational mind, it only ends up hurting you.
A.) I know atheists "don't have to be angry". I was just stating that I personally went through an angry atheist phase. Because, and let's be honest, there are some atheists who are indeed angry.
B.) I'm glad you don't need religion, but please don't think that religious people are only religious because they need "security" or that it is all "nonsense". Granted, there are many like that, but I'd bet there are just as many who aren't. Also, please don't equate those who do follow a religion as not being "strong enough" or being "prisoners in a set system" or in a "mind control system". I personally believe in God (in a Pan(en)theistic sense), and there may be a religion which reflects what I already believe. Then again, there also may not be. That's the purpose of being a seeker.
C.) Thanks for the suggestion, but I will stop my spiritual journey once it actually does "hurt" me. Until then, I will continue to seek for personal truth; what ever that may be.
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DaftChrisSpiritually conflicted. Not of this world.Veteran
Can you 'believe' or better still know a god that is 0% unreal? A god that transcends existence and non existence? If not you will never understand 100%.
Trust me, I am unbelievable . . .
Touché
Still, I am a theist, but maybe "100%" was a bit of a hyperbole.
I just simply don't get involved in the discussion
their faith is flawed and probably wrong, but they don't care, it makes them feel warm and cuddly inside and cared about, they aren't strong enough to make it without religion, and it's not their faults, they can be strong enough, I was one of those people as a teen. But I found that much more growth, truth, beauty, and wisdom comes outside of ancient belief systems, religions, cults, holy books, whatever people like turning to for what they think is "security". Well, it may make you feel secure, but I personally don't care about security when I can't think for myself, when I am a prisoner in a set system, a mind control system, and that is exactly what religion is. It's all bull.
It sounds to me like you are involved in the discussion.
I don't get involved in the discussion of whether there is a God or not, why don't you read it again. Your copy and pasting completely butchers what I actually said.
You are directly saying that those who believe in God are weak, and 'only' seeking security. And you are saying they don't think for themselves. So I guess you are right since your quotation is not talking about if God exists, rather it is talking about the degenerate nature of believers.
You are directly saying that those who believe in God are weak, and 'only' seeking security. And you are saying they don't think for themselves. So I guess you are right since your quotation is not talking about if God exists, rather it is talking about the degenerate nature of believers.
Wow... No I am not, I am saying that about religion.... I am not saying that about God at all...
@JosephW, one thing you have to get used to in this forum (more so than others) is that when you write something that others disagree with, there is a tendency for those others to put words in your mouth to discredit the integrity of your position.
@JosephW, one thing you have to get used to in this forum (more so than others) is that when you write something that others disagree with, there is a tendency for those others to put words in your mouth to discredit the integrity of your position.
I think our friend is just being sensitive.
Taking issue with something he actually posted, isn't putting words in his mouth.
And besides, Vin, people do that all the time on forums like this one. If you're hide's not thick enough to handle that, maybe start a blog and turn off the comments. That way you can say whatever you like and not have to worry about people using it as a forum to put words in your mouth.
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Be kind guys, we are sensitive . . . for example during transition, before morning coffee, during a bad hair day or in my case on behalf of the insensitive . . . Such as his Divine Fishiness, The Holy Cod (Peace and Blessing on his Fin)
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Honestly, I don't think that is far from the truth for most people of religion... I feel if they put their beliefs aside and think about the whole picture rationally, they will see many problems in their faith... I feel that most people are in a mental prison in religion. That's far from not being happy.
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Honestly, I don't think that is far from the truth for most people of religion... I feel if they put their beliefs aside and think about the whole picture rationally, they will see many problems in their faith... I feel that most people are in a mental prison in religion. That's far from not being happy.
That may be true in some cases and untrue in others. Don't you think? I think people are in a mental prison due to craving and concocting.
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Honestly, I don't think that is far from the truth for most people of religion... I feel if they put their beliefs aside and think about the whole picture rationally, they will see many problems in their faith... I feel that most people are in a mental prison in religion. That's far from not being happy.
That may be true in some cases and untrue in others. Don't you think? I think people are in a mental prison due to craving and concocting.
Well, that's just a whole different discussion. And true in some cases and not others? No, it doesn't matter how happy you are, how much liberty you think your religion gives you, it will not allow you to truly think for yourself... And that's why I say it's a mental prison for the rational mind, trust me there are many people out there that just don't like to think for themselves, there are also those people out there that are leaving their religion and work up enough courage to leave their religion and go on their own spiritual journey, such as DaftChris and I did. He is just still going at it and taking what I said a little too personally. The reason I responded is because I was doing the same thing, and regardless of how attractive a religious culture, belief system, expressions, may be, there is no way of getting around the fact that you can't think for yourself. I don't think there is an Eastern solution to it either, but I do think that Eastern philosophies offer practices that can help you in your everyday life, without even getting into religion...
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Honestly, I don't think that is far from the truth for most people of religion... I feel if they put their beliefs aside and think about the whole picture rationally, they will see many problems in their faith... I feel that most people are in a mental prison in religion. That's far from not being happy.
That may be true in some cases and untrue in others. Don't you think? I think people are in a mental prison due to craving and concocting.
Well, that's just a whole different discussion. And true in some cases and not others? No, it doesn't matter how happy you are, how much liberty you think your religion gives you, it will not allow you to truly think for yourself... And that's why I say it's a mental prison for the rational mind, trust me there are many people out there that just don't like to think for themselves, there are also those people out there that are leaving their religion and work up enough courage to leave their religion and go on their own spiritual journey, such as DaftChris and I did. He is just still going at it and taking what I said a little too personally. The reason I responded is because I was doing the same thing, and regardless of how attractive a religious culture, belief system, expressions, may be, there is no way of getting around the fact that you can't think for yourself. I don't think there is an Eastern solution to it either, but I do think that Eastern philosophies offer practices that can help you in your everyday life, without even getting into religion...
Well, that's just a whole different discussion. And true in some cases and not others? No, it doesn't matter how happy you are, how much liberty you think your religion gives you, it will not allow you to truly think for yourself... And that's why I say it's a mental prison for the rational mind, trust me there are many people out there that just don't like to think for themselves, there are also those people out there that are leaving their religion and work up enough courage to leave their religion and go on their own spiritual journey, such as DaftChris and I did. He is just still going at it and taking what I said a little too personally. The reason I responded is because I was doing the same thing, and regardless of how attractive a religious culture, belief system, expressions, may be, there is no way of getting around the fact that you can't think for yourself. I don't think there is an Eastern solution to it either, but I do think that Eastern philosophies offer practices that can help you in your everyday life, without even getting into religion...
I don't think I took it personally, but I can see how it may have seemed that way. However, please don't paint religious/spiritual people with such a huge brush. To say that religion is a "mental prison for the rational mind" and for those who "don't like to think for themselves" is disingenuous and can come across as a purposeful distortion of religion. I'm of the train of thought that one can be religious/spiritual and also be sound of mind and a freethinker.
I know it may not have been your intention, but when you make comments like that, it comes across as Neo-atheist dreck.
Well, that's just a whole different discussion. And true in some cases and not others? No, it doesn't matter how happy you are, how much liberty you think your religion gives you, it will not allow you to truly think for yourself... And that's why I say it's a mental prison for the rational mind, trust me there are many people out there that just don't like to think for themselves, there are also those people out there that are leaving their religion and work up enough courage to leave their religion and go on their own spiritual journey, such as DaftChris and I did. He is just still going at it and taking what I said a little too personally. The reason I responded is because I was doing the same thing, and regardless of how attractive a religious culture, belief system, expressions, may be, there is no way of getting around the fact that you can't think for yourself. I don't think there is an Eastern solution to it either, but I do think that Eastern philosophies offer practices that can help you in your everyday life, without even getting into religion...
I don't think I took it personally, but I can see how it may have seemed that way. However, please don't paint religious/spiritual people with such a huge brush. To say that religion is a "mental prison for the rational mind" and for those who "don't like to think for themselves" is disingenuous and can come across as a purposeful distortion of religion. I'm of the train of thought that one can be religious/spiritual and also be sound of mind and a freethinker.
I know it may not have been your intention, but when you make comments like that, it comes across as Neo-atheist dreck.
Alrighty then, I will leave it at you. However, these forums are open to opinion and I was just stating that. Good luck with you on your journey that you seem to be continuing.
If you go to a foreign country and have a tour guide does that mean you don't think for yourself?
Though I said I would leave it at that, I didn't see this comment and I would like to respond to it,
Jeffrey, those two things are on a completely different scale, one is governing your life for the rest of your life, the other is practically asking for directions....
If you go to a foreign country and have a tour guide does that mean you don't think for yourself?
Though I said I would leave it at that, I didn't see this comment and I would like to respond to it,
Jeffrey, those two things are on a completely different scale, one is governing your life for the rest of your life, the other is practically asking for directions from a local....
If you go to a foreign country and have a tour guide does that mean you don't think for yourself?
Though I said I would leave it at that, I didn't see this comment and I would like to respond to it,
Jeffrey, those two things are on a completely different scale, one is governing your life for the rest of your life, the other is practically asking for directions....
My guru does not direct my life. Another meaning of guru is 'spiritual friend'. My guru answers questions about the dharma and sometimes advice when I am having a severe trouble for example with drinking she helped me. I can partially credit her with my overcoming drinking. She also helped teach me how to communicate in my problems in relationships. All that and also advice on the dharma.
She is my spiritual friend and not my boss.
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HamsakagoosewhispererPolishing the 'just so'Veteran
Clipped from @JosephW 's post from somewhere back there;
I have cherry picked what I want, used them in my life and pushed all the tales and myths and things that require simply believing aside, because in this life Chris, simply believing, faith, whatever you want to call it, is nonsense... Now I know a lot of people that DEEP inside, they know their faith is flawed and probably wrong, but they don't care, it makes them feel warm and cuddly inside and cared about, they aren't strong enough to make it without religion, and it's not their faults, they can be strong enough,
Your experience of myths and tales or what must be 'simply believed' as being nonsense is valid, for you, and in most respects, it's valid for me too. But the validity is not an objective one, for either of us, no matter how factual and obvious it appears to us. It is only a relative truth. As hard as I've tried to believe in this or that over the course of my life, I have direct experience of encountering the nonsense as it is where I arrive every time I've tried to go there.
I have been close (and currently am) to people who's faith in the Christian God is as factual to them as is the nonsense of it is to me. For the longest time I felt a bit superior, you know. But that was my delusion, that I knew more than they did what they REALLY experienced.
You gotta admit, it's a bit grandiose of us to assume. On the other hand, I do perceive many instances where dramatic and contentious expressions of religiosity are reactions to a person's DEEP lack of faith in what they protest for. But that's about the only time I give myself permission to be 'sure' and then only 'mostly sure'.
Even worse, I myself DO have a persistent, factually existent relationship with a power much greater than myself or any of the rest of y'all out there, including rocks and pulsars . I have this eerie suspicion a photon-width stream of it is peering out through my optical cortex watching me type right now. Eeek, seriously.
Comments
B.) I'm glad you don't need religion, but please don't think that religious people are only religious because they need "security" or that it is all "nonsense". Granted, there are many like that, but I'd bet there are just as many who aren't. Also, please don't equate those who do follow a religion as not being "strong enough" or being "prisoners in a set system" or in a "mind control system". I personally believe in God (in a Pan(en)theistic sense), and there may be a religion which reflects what I already believe. Then again, there also may not be. That's the purpose of being a seeker.
C.) Thanks for the suggestion, but I will stop my spiritual journey once it actually does "hurt" me. Until then, I will continue to seek for personal truth; what ever that may be.
A little paradox might be welcome . . .
Can you 'believe' or better still know a god that is 0% unreal?
A god that transcends existence and non existence?
If not you will never understand 100%.
Trust me, I am unbelievable . . .
Touché
Still, I am a theist, but maybe "100%" was a bit of a hyperbole.
I don't get involved in the discussion of whether there is a God or not, why don't you read it again. Your copy and pasting completely butchers what I actually said.
Taking issue with something he actually posted, isn't putting words in his mouth.
And besides, Vin, people do that all the time on forums like this one. If you're hide's not thick enough to handle that, maybe start a blog and turn off the comments. That way you can say whatever you like and not have to worry about people using it as a forum to put words in your mouth.
Just sayin .....
You did however say it about religious people. What difference if it is about religious people or God? It's still basically calling out a whole group of people with a broad brushstroke and calling them fearful beings who can't think for themselves.
Regards,
Jeff
I know it may not have been your intention, but when you make comments like that, it comes across as Neo-atheist dreck.
Jeffrey, those two things are on a completely different scale, one is governing your life for the rest of your life, the other is practically asking for directions....
She is my spiritual friend and not my boss.
I have been close (and currently am) to people who's faith in the Christian God is as factual to them as is the nonsense of it is to me. For the longest time I felt a bit superior, you know. But that was my delusion, that I knew more than they did what they REALLY experienced.
You gotta admit, it's a bit grandiose of us to assume. On the other hand, I do perceive many instances where dramatic and contentious expressions of religiosity are reactions to a person's DEEP lack of faith in what they protest for. But that's about the only time I give myself permission to be 'sure' and then only 'mostly sure'.
Even worse, I myself DO have a persistent, factually existent relationship with a power much greater than myself or any of the rest of y'all out there, including rocks and pulsars
Gassho