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Buddhism, Death and the Dharma - how do Buddhists grieve major change? Recently lost my sister :-(

edited February 2014 in Buddhism Today
Hi everyone, I hope this finds you well.

I would like to start a discussion about what experiences people have had of Death and their practice, grief and sorrow in the context of Dukkha and Impermanence etc.

Allow me to kick it off with a brief article I wrote about it, following the death of my big sister two weeks ago. Damn, it still hurts, especially posting the finished article, but if some good comes out of it, that can only be a wonderful thing.
This is inspired by her bravery and determination to use her situation to help others. This is for anyone who is grieving, anyone who has lost someone, anyone who is looking for closure or at least an alternative way of looking at death. Click below for the link to the blog...

Remembering Jane: Buddhism, Death and the Dharma

Jane Clegg: 1970-2014. You will be missed, but thank you for the amazing times! There is a link for those who have asked about donating to Beating Bowel Cancer. They are criminally underfunded, and change lives!

image

Many thanks, you messages and actions of love and support over the last few difficult weeks have been out of this world, for me and my family. You know who you are, so thank you xxx

I'm interested in sharing experiences, and hope that if you have lost someone recently that you give whatever arrises plenty of space and kindness :-) Huge hugs, it gets better, I promise!

All my love and metta, Namo Buddhay!

D.F xxx

pegembara

Comments

  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    The examination of the factors of your present grief have the potential to illuminate for you, what they did for the Buddha.
    While there is almost an unlimited range of feelings that will accompany such a loss, I have found that treating it formost as my teacher is what helped everyone the most in the long run.
    In Gassho
    H
    BhikkhuJayasaraThe_Dharma_Farmer
  • My thoughts are with you @the_dharma_farmer.
    What I was taught when bereaved was to open completely to the grief. Not to distract myself in anyway, but to sit with it.
    BhikkhuJayasaraThe_Dharma_FarmerChaz
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    That's a nice pic..... What were you guys doing
    that day?
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    So sorry for your loss. Don't let anyone tell you how long it should take to "get over it" because you don't. Time does do it's thing and you do move on, you won't feel the pain so starkly or harshly, but your life will have to take on a new version of normal. It never goes away. But you can honor your feelings and sit with them. Take care of them, be gentle, treat your feelings like anything else you'd handle with great care. Don't push them aside but don't become absorbed by them, either. If you need to cry, cry. If you don't feel you need to, then don't try to force yourself. Grieving is a process, for everyone. For some, it takes longer than others. When my ex died 5 years ago, it took me quite a few months to get over crying every few days, and thinking constantly about him. I still think of him often, but in a different way. I gave myself permission to just feel things as they arose and with time, the feelings changed. You miss them, but in a different way.

    I would recommend, if you are interested, the maybe you read through parts of Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. There are some aspects that might not be of interest to you if you are not a Tibetan Buddhist, but there are some wonderful words and prayers and explanations that I found most helpful. I read it a lot when my grandma was ill as well.

    Wishing you peace. It will come.
    pegembaraThe_Dharma_Farmercvalue
  • My teacher wrote a book called There is More to Dying than Death http://www.amazon.com/Theres-More-Dying-than-Death/dp/1899579680

    Drawing from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition of approaching and preparing for death, Lama Shenpen Hookham offers Westerners like herself practical descriptions of the attitudes, the practices, and the considerations that surround our own death, caring for those dying and also care-givers. Of great interest to those

    About the Author
    Lama Shenpen Hookham has practised in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition for over 30 years, both in India and here in her native Britain. With Khenpo Rinpoche her root teacher, she focuses on the Mahamudra and Dzogchen teachings. She is the author of The Buddha Within and Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness.

    Lama Shenpen Hookham is a British Westerner with a solid grounding in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. She has a gift for teaching in an intuitive style which encourages her students' independence and creativity. In other contexts, her analysis and teaching of the role of words, their meaning, and their inner resonance, brings out the inner dimension of language and its role in Buddhist teaching and practice.
    This relatively brief book combines the best of two traditions of writing on death and dying: firstly, she addresses practical concerns about dying, and secondly, she addresses the Buddhist practices and beliefs around the process, including a knowledge of the so-called "Tibetan Book of the Dead" (Bardo Thodol Chenmo).
    This makes for a powerful combination, giving useful and heartfelt advice. One feels as if one were sipping a cup of tea with the Lama, cozily sitting by a fire during a cold night in Wales. As a friend and a Lama, she delivers simple yet profound and practical advice, combined with heart-felt humanity and warmth. This is a book not only on death and dying, but on how to conduct one's life. It is said that if my next step is the right one, I will be at the right place in a thousand miles. This is the core message of this book. I highly recommend it for the reader now, when death does not seem so near.
    karastibetaboyThe_Dharma_Farmercvalue
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited February 2014
    "Unindicated and unknown is the length of life of those subject to death. Life is difficult and brief and bound up with suffering. There is no means by which those who are born will not die. Having reached old age, there is death. This is the natural course for a living being. With ripe fruits there is the constant danger that they will fall. In the same way, for those born and subject to death, there is always the fear of dying. Just as the pots made by a potter all end by being broken, so death is (the breaking up) of life.

    "The young and old, the foolish and the wise, all are stopped short by the power of death, all finally end in death. Of those overcome by death and passing to another world, a father cannot hold back his son, nor relatives a relation. See! While the relatives are looking on and weeping, one by one each mortal is led away like an ox to slaughter.

    "In this manner the world is afflicted by death and decay. But the wise do not grieve, having realized the nature of the world. You do not know the path by which they came or departed. Not seeing either end you lament in vain. If any benefit is gained by lamenting, the wise would do it. Only a fool would harm himself. Yet through weeping and sorrowing the mind does not become calm, but still more suffering is produced, the body is harmed and one becomes lean and pale, one merely hurts oneself. One cannot protect a departed one (peta) by that means. To grieve is in vain.

    "By not abandoning sorrow a being simply undergoes more suffering. Bewailing the dead he comes under the sway of sorrow. See other men faring according to their deeds! Hence beings tremble here with fear when they come into the power of death. Whatever they imagine, it (turns out) quite different from that. This is the sort of disappointment that exists. Look at the nature of the world! If a man lives for a hundred years, or even more, finally, he is separated from his circle of relatives and gives up his life in the end. Therefore, having listened to the arahant, one should give up lamenting. Seeing a dead body, one should know, "He will not be met by me again." As the fire in a burning house is extinguished with water, so a wise, discriminating, learned and sensible man should quickly drive away the sorrow that arises, as the wind (blows off) a piece of cotton. He who seeks happiness should withdraw the arrow: his own lamentations, longings and grief.

    "With the arrow withdrawn, unattached, he would attain to peace of mind; and when all sorrow has been transcended he is sorrow-free and has realized Nibbana.

    Salla Sutta: The Arrow
    The_Dharma_Farmercvalue
  • Jeffrey said:

    My teacher wrote a book called There is More to Dying than Death http://www.amazon.com/Theres-More-Dying-than-Death/dp/1899579680

    Drawing from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition of approaching and preparing for death, Lama Shenpen Hookham offers Westerners like herself practical descriptions of the attitudes, the practices, and the considerations that surround our own death, caring for those dying and also care-givers. Of great interest to those

    About the Author
    Lama Shenpen Hookham has practised in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition for over 30 years, both in India and here in her native Britain. With Khenpo Rinpoche her root teacher, she focuses on the Mahamudra and Dzogchen teachings. She is the author of The Buddha Within and Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness.

    Lama Shenpen Hookham is a British Westerner with a solid grounding in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. She has a gift for teaching in an intuitive style which encourages her students' independence and creativity. In other contexts, her analysis and teaching of the role of words, their meaning, and their inner resonance, brings out the inner dimension of language and its role in Buddhist teaching and practice.
    This relatively brief book combines the best of two traditions of writing on death and dying: firstly, she addresses practical concerns about dying, and secondly, she addresses the Buddhist practices and beliefs around the process, including a knowledge of the so-called "Tibetan Book of the Dead" (Bardo Thodol Chenmo).
    This makes for a powerful combination, giving useful and heartfelt advice. One feels as if one were sipping a cup of tea with the Lama, cozily sitting by a fire during a cold night in Wales. As a friend and a Lama, she delivers simple yet profound and practical advice, combined with heart-felt humanity and warmth. This is a book not only on death and dying, but on how to conduct one's life. It is said that if my next step is the right one, I will be at the right place in a thousand miles. This is the core message of this book. I highly recommend it for the reader now, when death does not seem so near.

    And it wasn't from second hand experience as you know Jeffrey. She has had a close brush with death. She is in remission from cancer.
    cvalue
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2014
    My aunt is very close to death with recently-diagnosed advanced cancer of several major organs.
    'Suffering' as she does from senility, she never brought any pain, discomfort or anxiety to anyone's attention.
    My cousin, keeping an eye on her mother, was giving her a bath about 2 weeks ago. My aunt needed the toilet, and my cousin noticed an abnormality in her bowel movements, took her to hospital later that day, and by the evening, discovered her mother had advanced, inoperable cancer, which could actually take her... at any time.
    This saddened me enormously to hear, because this particular aunt has a long, chequered and difficult life behind her. She never had it easy, either emotionally or financially, but has a heart as big as the whole outdoors, a relentless sense of good humour and never an unkind word for anyone. She is and always has been, my favourite aunt.
    I was at my father's side, when he died, and supported my mother through that grief; she now has the additional burden of seeing her beloved sister die.

    Death always finds us; it is a constant and ever-present companion.
    I often 'take tea with Yama'. He and I have become good friends, and I know, one day, it will be my turn to dine with him.

    The "trick" is to become so familiar with the thought of death, that it becomes as great a part of your life as breathing is.

    The_Dharma_Farmercvaluepegembara
  • pegembara said:

    "...having listened to the arahant, one should give up lamenting. Seeing a dead body, one should know, "He will not be met by me again." As the fire in a burning house is extinguished with water, so a wise, discriminating, learned and sensible man should quickly drive away the sorrow that arises, as the wind (blows off) a piece of cotton. He who seeks happiness should withdraw the arrow: his own lamentations, longings and grief.

    "With the arrow withdrawn, unattached, he would attain to peace of mind; and when all sorrow has been transcended he is sorrow-free and has realized Nibbana.

    Totally agree with all this, of course, but I'm not sure how useful it is unless you talking to someone who knows to to remove the arrow. To most people, grief is a natural, healthy process, so a teaching like this generally needs to be presented to a grieving person with a lot of explanation and practical instruction, and only if you've established that they're inclined to listen to it. Unless they've already demonstrated a fair bit of fluency in removing the second arrow, and they just need a reminder to do it.
    robotThe_Dharma_Farmerpegembara
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    The other thing is not to presume that the grieving person wants that arrow removed. it's all a question of understanding, and timing.
    lobsterThe_Dharma_Farmercvalue
  • Philosophy is the worst medicine one can offer to a grieving person. What they need is empathy - even a pat on the back or holding hands would do just fine.
    robotThe_Dharma_Farmerpegembara
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Even before becoming Buddhist, I tended to have a sort of Buddhist viewpoint of death. To not cling to the sorrow, the grieving. Leading up to someone's death I could be a mess. But almost as soon as it happened, I would feel the need to move beyond that. That's not to say that I would just forget about the person. The sting would still be there, as well as the favorable memories. But I never could see the purpose in letting myself get mired down into what really was self-pit...the sadness of I lost my _____.

    And for each person, that time period is different. But there certainly is a time to let go of the grief. Federica makes a good point -- that the individual has to decide when to remove the arrow. But there does come a time when that arrow should be removed.
    BhikkhuJayasaraThe_Dharma_Farmerpegembara
  • @betaboy, what @pegembera offered is not philosophy, it is a practice instruction, one of tremendous value to people who can follow it. Part of the problem is that it sounds like philosophy, though.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    betaboy said:

    Philosophy is the worst medicine one can offer to a grieving person. What they need is empathy - even a pat on the back or holding hands would do just fine.

    fivebells said:

    @betaboy, what @pegembera offered is not philosophy, it is a practice instruction, one of tremendous value to people who can follow it. Part of the problem is that it sounds like philosophy, though.

    I think what we have to remember that the OP did not make this a " help me with my loss" thread, he made it a discussion threat about the topic of death. Hence what Pegembera posted was just fine. I also indeed posted my comment regarding the topic itself as opposed to advice directly to the OP.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • fivebells said:

    @betaboy, what @pegembera offered is not philosophy, it is a practice instruction, one of tremendous value to people who can follow it. Part of the problem is that it sounds like philosophy, though.

    Part of the problem is that it is cut and paste sutta. As opposed to heartfelt relating of the experience of death and grief, which is the discussion the OP is looking for.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • Sorry for your loss. Death is a reminder that we are similar, and we all deserve metta equally.

    May we all be free of suffering.
    The_Dharma_Farmer
  • edited February 2014
    Hi everyone thanks so much for this. Its a fitting thread given that many of us celebrate Parinirvana Day around this time. @jayantha - yes, this was more a general discussion about anitya and how others have experienced and utilised such a stark reminder in their own practice. That being said, I wanna say a huge 'thank you' to everyone for your considerate, heartfelt and well received condolences and messages of support. It means an aful lot to me, and your advice reassures me that I am indeed looking at this an approaching it in the 'right way', as it were ;-)

    I know everyone is different, and you're so right, people sometimes seem to develop only an intellectual understanding of the Dharma and treat it almost as if it were a philosophy, something to be understood in a merely theoretical, abstract way. For me, I suppose looking back this painful process is actually bringing me closer to an emotion equivalent of my theoretical or scholastic understanding, closing the gap be tween 'wisdom' and simply 'knowledge'.

    Insight on the other hand...? Who knows? That kind of wordless shift in the fundamental perspective, the fabled 'turning about in the deepest seat of consciousness'... Fairly ineffable, and not a concern to be honest. I suppose that it can be said to manifested as our actions thereafter? I can't promise anything on that one, lol... We wait with baited breath... ;-) As I mentioned, I seem more sensitive to the grace by which we live our lives with death over our shoulders, as Eddie Vedder said, and feel more kindly towards that heightened sensitivity, allowing it to bring a new and subtle texture to life. Things feel less fixed, more fragile, which is cool by me. I'm feeling a hell of a lot more compassionate, or is there a different nuance to it? Hard to say...

    Im happy to say my other foot is arrow-free, its just giving it time and allowing the first arrow some kindly space to unfold and explain itself, or not, as it chooses. I'm also reminded of the historical Buddha, that he himself was mortal and 'died' and I feel greatly inspired by this. We too can achieve the state of the Deathless, as did he.

    So much metta in my heart for you all, thank you! @federica - you are in my thoughts especially at this difficult time, if you need someone to talk to pm me on facebook or here any time. Its just our turn in the stocks, it will be someone else's tun soon enough. Does or has anyone else experienced some weird, elated feelings of gladness or happiness that this is happening to you instead of someone else? I've felt that a lot when non-Buddhists express their condolences... I'm glad my world perspective doesn't include a creator God, that's all I can say... I'd be royally pissed at him/her if it did, lol!
    ;-P

    Big love! Stay safe xxx

  • edited February 2014
    @robot yeah you're right there I suppose... The sutta I read and I re-read, as well as a sutta on grief, and the lines in the Dhammapada: "Many here forget that we all die. For those that do not, all quarrels cease." (obv. translations vary, but we all know that verse, right?)

    The hard part is being able to tell the difference between mindless distraction versus consciously engaging with activities which will allow positive mental states to arise... When I reach for the TV remote, what is my intention..? am I running away from something, or am I acknowledging it and responding kindly to myself..? Mindfulness is revolutionary in that sense! I find that there is a release of energy when I stop running from a painful experience and instead turn towards it with compassion in my heart. Again, strike any chords with anyone? :-)

    So long as I don't try and use the suttas and the Dharma as some kind of intellectual band-aid for an emotional wound, I'll be fine... Better than than, I will evolve. And that is what I believe it means to be truly human :-) xx
    Citta
  • @The_Dharma_Farmer I thought your blog entry was a fitting tribute. I really got a sense of you and your big sister.

    Pain is pain. Physical, emotional, head confusion . . .
    Pain really does have the potential to increase our empathy and compassion. I feel this is where authenticity and reality comes very close to us; in our tragedy, our tears, our humanity.

    How extraordinary to be human, to lose a 'punk sister', to grieve, to remember . . . incredible intense events. I really want to say wonderful.

    Eh Ma Ho (how wonderful).
    Vastmindrobotcvalue
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited February 2014
    The way I see it Buddhists grieve major change by preparing for it beforehand and expecting it to happen. So when it does happen it comes as no big surprise and no problem and then grieving is largely unnecessary. I always found the modern day psychologists description of the "grieving process" interesting. Generally speaking, it normally involves 4 things or stages. Denial, anger, sadness and the final stage acceptance. When acceptance is reached, grieving is said to end. What Buddhists do is to attempt to attain the stage of acceptance, preemptively. If you can really accept it beforehand, grieving is minimal if not absent altogether. You can skip over the suffering part and go right to the end. Buddhism's most potent cure, so to speak, is to deal with all this stuff before it even happens. So when it does happen, it's not considered a "problem" or "bad" but simply the natural way of things. One of the zen masters in my zen school spoke of the death of his father once, he called it a "wondrous event", meanwhile most other people think it's a tragedy. He didn't make it into some "bad thing", therefore it wasn't some bad thing. When my father all of a sudden dropped dead of a heart attack, it really didn't come as much surprise because I knew something like that was going to happen and I already accepted the fact that it was going to happen. Nobody can live forever. People get sick and die, that is just the way of the world. The less you resist the change, the less problems you have with it. Of course, it takes practice and a degree of wisdom to "not resist". Old age, sickness and death can not be overcome by resisting them. They are overcome by just allowing them to happen. You can't stop it so might as well just allow it. It's not like anyone has a choice anyway. :)
  • Pretty easy to say.
    Of course I knew my mother was going to die. She was 85 and failing. I was sad to lose her but glad she wasn't suffering any more.
    If one of my children was killed, I would not expect things to go so smoothly.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I think when we are not within a situation we cannot imagine dealing with it, but when we are there, strength finds us via our faith (in whatever our beliefs are) and community. A young boy (15) died of cancer here a couple months ago, he had been doing quite well and suddenly became much sicker and died pretty quickly. And while of course it was difficult for them, and I'm sure still is on a lot of days, they met their son/brother's illness and imminent death with a lot of courage and celebration, and yes, with a lot of gladness he was no longer suffering once he died. I think, the our attitude about life on a daily basis greatly influences how we can deal with things when they happen, horrible as they can be. There are people who seek only revenge and there are others who forgive and seek compassion for someone who hurts one of their loved ones, for example. I'm sure those who forgive and operate from a place of compassion even in the hardest moments of their lives are those who practice it otherwise and not just when something horrible happens.

    It doesn't mean those people aren't still very sad at losing their loved one no matter the reason, child or adult. Aversion to illness and death only makes the transition that much harder.
  • zsczsc Explorer
    Sorry for your loss.

    Even though I have lost loved ones myself, I'm not really helpful in situations like this, but I will say that I have offered 염불(yeombul - the Korean term for "nembutsu") for you, your family, and your sister. I hope this helps.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    @The_Dharma_Farmer - I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. May you and your family find peace.

    I recently lost my grandpa, who I was close to. It was really hard for me at first - everything I learned and understood from Buddhism over the past few years of practice sort of flew out the window... but I tried to not feel guilty about it.

    Interestingly, because the rest of my family is Christian, I got to see the power that their faith had in dealing with such a difficult time. It gave me perspective on how trying to rationalize (e.g. "Well, everything is impermanent so this is just part of samsara...") sometimes twists the knife a bit more than simply relinquishing any sort of control one tries to create over the situation. The rest of my family seemed to completely surrender their grief and desire to change my grandpa's status to "God's will," and it seemed to help them cope really well.
    robot
  • There's the clue. However you express it your Grandpa has gone back to Great Nature. Your 'job' is to come to peace with that...But let yourself feel it all.
    Invincible_summer
  • Living and dying are realities of life. I would like to believe that there is joy in living just like there is joy in dying.
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