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Divorce and separation among friends and colleagues - how can I be of help?
anataman
Who needs a title?Where am I? Veteran
Divorce, like death and losing your job is right up there in the list of lives stressful events. Over the last couple of years my wife and I have seen a significant number of our friends and colleagues go through divorce or separation, sadly the children (in all but one case) are innocent bystanders and being collaterally damaged. Some of these break ups we saw coming, it was just a matter of time, others were a bit of a shock. We had recognized in some instances that there was an abusive relationship, although the abused immersed in the relationship seemed oblivious to it until it was too late.
We see some more coming up on the horizon. It seems the woman in all cases are taking responsibility for the children, even though they are the main breadwinners in some cases.
Any suggestions as to how best I can help our friends/colleagues going through these life events other than being there as a shoulder to cry on or a sounding board. Unfortunately as a male in a stable relationship I feel like the proverbial rabbit staring into the headlights, particularly as it seems the men are pretty much the problem, except in one case.
I realize a number if members of this forum have been through separation, sometimes more than once, so asm keen to hear what people did for you to help get you through it and how much you appreciated it.
Mettha
We see some more coming up on the horizon. It seems the woman in all cases are taking responsibility for the children, even though they are the main breadwinners in some cases.
Any suggestions as to how best I can help our friends/colleagues going through these life events other than being there as a shoulder to cry on or a sounding board. Unfortunately as a male in a stable relationship I feel like the proverbial rabbit staring into the headlights, particularly as it seems the men are pretty much the problem, except in one case.
I realize a number if members of this forum have been through separation, sometimes more than once, so asm keen to hear what people did for you to help get you through it and how much you appreciated it.
Mettha
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Comments
'no matter who you are with there will always be challenges... just different ones'
I left my husband and am now in a new relationship, he was right, the only difference is that my kids have lost their 'family unit' with hindsight I wish I had worked harder at communication and trying to 'work it out'. Putting up with the shit hoping we could have grown up/worked through it would have saved my kids a lot of unnecessary heartache.
So my advice to anyone going through divorce/separation is this ... try your bloody hardest to resolve the problems, get counseling, write each other letters of true feelings, get help, get help, get help .....before you make that decision.
Before anyone rants I'm not talking about couples in abusive relationships.
If you agree with the friend or encourage their feeling that the ex is an asshole, it might make a reconciliation more difficult, and spoil friendship with either or both of the people.
If the ex is abusive the gloves come off, of course.
Sometimes all there is to say is that you're sorry that your friends are hurting.
Men can be jerks for sure. But women can be impossible too. Particularly in their forties when they are ready for some changes, right about the time that men are ready for things to stay the same.
Funny you mention the forties, thats pretty much the age bracket I'm talking about...
Perhaps try to be an open, unbiased resource and let your friends/colleagues pick'n'mix.
It's easy to fall into the ready and open trap of instantly believing everything they're telling you, but never forget, whatever the issue, there are always, but always, two sides.
Unless they're sitting in front of you with a busted nose/black eye, (in which case, physical violence is an immediate side-taker!) you have to be careful to remain neutral, at least until you've heard both sides.
Even then, you have to be cautious about the extent of your personal involvement.
Furthermore, you need to be proactive in helping people to use their head, if important issues need addressing. They cannot use emotion to make decisions. When it comes to practical matters , head HAS to over-rule heart.
They appeared to be reasonably happy together (no kids) and it was quite the surprise to us.
It had my partner and I question ourselves about our own relationship to see if we knew anything more about our own setup than we did of theirs. It allowed us to ask questions of each other that we probably would have otherwise glossed over.
As for how to help them...I think it is the same as how you help anyone?
What is empathy, sympathy, tenderness, compassion but ones ability to be as present as possible with what ever is arising.
I have said before..... that the secret of a good partnership is where both participants first and foremost aim at helping the other be the best success that they can be.
It occurs to me now that this applies just as much to everyone we know..
it can be very hard to be placed into another person's relationship problems. They really need to be talking to their spouse, and a counselor. Not someone who brings their own hangups and experiences from their failed (and successful) relationships into the mix.
My husband and I are good friends with another married couple. They ran into a relationship problem not long ago, and while I am better friends with the wife than the husband, I see him more often. When he was worried, he sent me like 100 text messages because he needed to talk to someone. I couldn't stop him from talking. But I didn't respond with advice. I just let him talk and I told him I hope he and her could get together when things calmed down to talk things through. There was no way to offer advice to him without condemning her actions (which I knew of only based on his perceptions).
So, take care of your relationship with each person, using *great care* in how you choose to respond when they are talking about their spouse. Practice compassionate listening. It might not feel like helping much, but when relationships are between 2 people, we cannot help them anyhow. We only turn into a someone they use to avoid talking to their spouse or a qualified counselor. Then what happens is the friend (you) almost always feels obligated to validate the feelings of the person they are talking to, and that person then feels emboldened in their stance which just makes open communication between the couple even more difficult.
You cannot stop them from talking to you. You can only control what you say, and sometimes, it is ok to say "I'm really not comfortable talking about your relationship." Thinking we need to jump in and help because a friend is having a relationship problem is often, I think, our ego talking. Our wanting to use our relationship expertise on them. We can't begin to think that we know what is best for their relationship based on our own relationships.
Just good to remember that just because someone wants to talk, doesn't mean they want, or need your advice. They want validation and without knowing all the nuances of their relationship, it might not be best to give them that validation if their perceptions are incorrect.
Sorry so long...LOL. I need to work on saying what I need to say in fewer words.
Mettha
If the actions or spoken word are of detriment to the children are we right to stand by and offer no advice, to not point out what damage it is causing the children.
Whilst I agree that if it is a childless couple then no side should be chosen and a listening ear offered but in the event of there being children by offering insight that as third party as to what we can see is imperative to the child/children.
I am divorced with 3 daughters, 1 of whom I have had no contact with for 4 years because of lies she was told. And I wish so much someone could have said at the time not only to my ex wife but to myself....STOP, take a step back and look at what is happening, look at the bigger picture.
This has exposed the 'comfort zone' I was analyzing I am sorry to hear of your circumstances. But an illustration can be illuminating.
Mettha
When I divorced, my daughters also didn't speak to me for many years.
It took a while to re-kindle relationships.
I still feel as if things are not 100% between my eldest and me, rather like a jigsaw with a couple of bits missing (maybe that's just my impression...left-over "guilt"...) but things are good between us.... she now has a young child of her own, and having been in a relationship herself for 10 years or so is more able to see the ups and downs her parents experienced.
My youngest and I 'speak' regularly on FB, but I haven't actually physically seen her in 8 years. We seem to be ok, and many things remain 'unspoken' between us, but it is what it is.
By the way, in case it wasn't obvious (as your forum name is 'in the feminine') I'm the mother.
The girls lived with their dad for a long while after we split.
I am the father. I was left with my daughters and then after the mum had revisited her youth she decided to be a mum again then it all changed. I am trying to regain contact with my eldest but this has taken great help from my partner who has helped open my eyes and helped me to look at myself and I wish I had had this from the very beginning.
One thing I learnt was that sometimes things are best left unspoken. Document everything, keep a diary then one day the child will ask questions, then at that point it is the correct time for things to be spoken and discussed in the correct way.
good luck, as with myself I hope that the bridges are repaired with time.
1-they already know the effect that they are having on the kids and either they do it anyways, or they are being cautious of it or
2-they won't take kindly to being told how to manage their children.
They might be willing to drag their spouse through the mud but questioning ones parenting or pointing out faults in someone else's parenting is unlikely to have any positive results whatsoever.
If one wants to ask how the children are doing through a divorce/separation, that is one thing. But to point out "Hey, you are acting like a jerkface in front of your kids." it's unlikely to be taken as a kind bit of advice. Most people are very, very defensive when it comes to their parenting.
My parents divorced when I was 15. They had been married 18 years. It was the best thing they ever did. i was SO relieved when they divorced because it was clear they were miserable together and as a result so was our family. When they split, even though things were difficult for them both for several years it was the best thing they could have done. Now they are both happy and healthy, us "kids" have great relationships with them, and their lives went in wonderful directions. Honestly, my mom STILL questions me, insisting their divorce had some horrible effect on me. It didn't. It was needed desperately. My parents acted far worse towards each other when they were married than when they were divorcing. Now they spend time together at their grandkid's various school events, and they get along quite well. Because they are loved and supported for who they are in their new lives. (well not new but compared to being married to each other). Divorce isn't always bad.
I don't view it as questioning the parenting and as with everything their is always a good way of trying to put an opinion across for instance, my partner has the ability to look at things from a 3rd party and not my partner and she will tell me and has helped me to see my actions were wrong.
keeping within the boundaries of the main question and how I think we can help or indeed should help a quick example..
My ex wife has had a daughter with the other man..now I had a view that when my daughters talked about their mum and new sister that if I said, " I do not need to know" or "I don't want to know" then I am not being derogatory against their mum so that is OK...until my partner pointed out that I was, in fact telling them that their mum and sister were irrelevant or didn't mater. And she was right.
I now have regular chats with them and include her sister, when we talk on Skype they hold their sister and I talk and wave with her and I am happy.
That's my point and I guess that it does depend on the parents and whether they are willing to listen and learn and take on views from others.
The three children in one divorce are being told this weekend that the parents are separating. They are quite young, much younger than I was when my parents went through an ugly divorce but I remember how upset I was. The mum is very much in control so I am sure it will be managed as well as it can be.
Mettha
Sorry, shouldn't be taking sides.
Mettha