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Not self - am I a puppet?

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Comments

  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2014

    @Earthninja said:
    ourself I wouldn't say it's predetermined, does a tree growing have a destiny? Does a moth? A monkey?
    It's one big dance of energy. You don't watch a dance to see the end. It's the dance that's the whole point.

    I don't think the universe is dumb, humans are no fluke. We are grown out of the earth as everything else.

    Life is not predetermined.
    Freewill is questionable.

    person
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran

    @Earthninja said:
    ourself hmm I'm not sure you grasp what im trying to say, in a conventional sense I agree with all you have said and that's not what I'm debating.

    Reality is where we are in right now, the only difference is how we choose to see it.

    Non duality is the only paradox because the word itself is duality lol.

    For duality to be paradox there must be no duality but again, duality is just a tool.

    @Earthninja said:
    If you we have free will, then we are holding onto something. Because your free will is going to die some day. If this stores sonething inside you like it does me then we have work to do!

    My free will doesn't die. As long as I am alive (and don't suffer from brain damage leaving me on autopilot), I will be able to affect change with my decisions.

    When I blend in with the rest, I won't need free will anymore. The only thing that stirs in me is the fact that life is for the living.

    Choose or not, you still choose.

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited May 2014

    Free will does have its limitations because it relies on our conditions. We can't choose to spout wings and fly away but we can make extensions of ourselves to do so.

  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2014

    I can choose to do something and one can call that free will, but this choosing is predicated on multiple variables; the society we live in, laws, one's upbringing, our past conditioning, and even our decision making, based primarily on feelings (not reason), intuition and subliminal ques we take in from the world around us. Sometime we don't even know why we make the decision we make. Think of your feeling or your thoughts, they can seem to arise out of nowhere and decidely influence what one does.
    The control we exert over our own minds and its decisions processes is minimal.
    This does not mean one cannot endeavor to think and act well, knowing one generates one's Kamma by one's intentionality, I just find the idea of free will rather suspect

    BuddhadragonupekkaToraldris
  • Buddha's concept of non-self is more profound than just identity.
    However, just imagine for a moment if you lost your memory.
    You cant remember anything from your past.
    You dont know your family and friends.
    Are you still you?

    @Earthninja said:
    If all thoughts are not self. Arising and disappearing like the clouds.

    Then this means I have no control over anything? Volition of will or a choice is still thought, not self.

    What do you guys think? Are we just puppets of the universe?

    I'm actually happy about this :) nothing is under control not even what I "choose" to do!

    Have a great day!

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    That's a hard one:
    You are, according to others; they hold on to the vestiges of the person they think they know.

    Whether 'you' can honestly identify with anything that makes you 'who' you are, is another matter entirely.

    David
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    @hermitwin‌ in reality we are never the same person twice. Even physically. We are like a candle burning. Is it the same flame all the way down the wick?

    Physically we are a changing metamorphoses. We become what we eat and drink in a sense :)

  • What is reality?
    We are made up of atoms.
    Atoms are merely vibrations.

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Is your consciousness made up of atoms @hermitwin ?

  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran

    @hermitwin said:
    Buddha's concept of non-self is more profound than just identity.
    However, just imagine for a moment if you lost your memory.
    You cant remember anything from your past.
    You dont know your family and friends.
    Are you still you?

    IMO no you are not. What defines humans and also seems to be our biggest problems is our ability to form and hold concepts, the biggest concept is ourselves or "I" Without this ability what sets us apart is gone.
    As an interesting aside if a computer or robot were able to be self-knowing, self referrential, is it becoming somewhat human, even if just in thought.

    Toraldris
  • MeisterBobMeisterBob Mindful Agnathiest CT , USA Veteran

    He doesn't seem sad,in pain, yet it is saddening to me. Bob

  • ToshTosh Veteran

    @MeisterBob said:
    He doesn't seem sad,in pain, yet it is saddening to me. Bob

    And his poor wife must be a Boddhisatva. Can you imagine what it would be like to live with him?

  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @Earthninja said:
    If all thoughts are not self. Arising and disappearing like the clouds.

    Then this means I have no control over anything? Volition of will or a choice is still thought, not self.

    What do you guys think? Are we just puppets of the universe?

    I'm actually happy about this :) nothing is under control not even what I "choose" to do!

    Have a great day!

    We are the puppet master. Why can't a non-self be in charge?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Because a Not-Self knows there is nothing to be in charge of.

    footiam
  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @federica said:
    Because a Not-Self knows there is nothing to be in charge of.

    There is no puppet to talk of then.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    so why mention it?

  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @federica said:
    so why mention it?

    Just to be heard.

    Jeffrey
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Hard to do, when just writing!! * LOL!! *

    footiam
  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @federica said:
    Hard to do, when just writing!! * LOL!! *

    Listen with your heart, dear.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Likewise, I'm sure.
    Making comments 'just to be heard' is not always an attribute or Right View.

    never simply make comments for the sake of making them.
    Temper your words and make each one count.

    footiam
  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @federica said:
    Likewise, I'm sure.
    Making comments 'just to be heard' is not always an attribute or Right View.

    never simply make comments for the sake of making them.
    Temper your words and make each one count.

    Just human, I suppose. Still learning.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2014

    we all are.

    Palms together in Ghasso.

    (Impossible to articulate using characters on the keyboard!!)

  • footiamfootiam Veteran

    @federica said:
    we all are.

    Palms together in Ghasso.

    (Impossible to articulate using characters on the keyboard!!)

    Sometimes, then, we have to make ourselves heard in order that we could be corrected.

    Earthninja
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    MAHAMUDRA ASPIRATION PRAYER
    cited by Khenpo Tstultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche

    "Looking at objects, there are no objects:
    they are seen to be mind.
    Looking at mind, there is no mind:
    it is empty of essence.
    Looking at both liberates dualistic
    clinging in its own ground.

    May we realize luminosity,
    the true nature of mind."

    From the "Mahamudra Aspiration Prayer" by the third Gyalwang Karmapa, Rangjung Dorje.

    EarthninjaTheswingisyellowBuddhadragon
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