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What's the Karma for killing slugs?

I feel terrible because I've resorted to putting slug pellets down on my garden and doing so lots of slugs are dying. I feel bad but they keep eating my plants I've been putting down. I've done this because the plants are for a wild garden to attract butterflies and caterpillars when it grows, but I can't have one if the plants are eaten.

Comments

  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    edited July 2014

    What is the karma for saving so many butterflies?
    Probably no worse than that.

    ;) .

    JeffreylobsterDavidEarthninja
  • ToshTosh Veteran

    @stevensheef said:
    I feel terrible

    I'd say that's part of the karma.

    BunksVictoriousyagrRowan1980
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Kia Ora,

    It's possible the anxiety you're feeling now is part and parcel of the karmic package...

    Think about your intention, ie, what had driven you to doing what you are doing...was it wholesome? or unwholesome ?

    You could make a slug trap and then release the slugs elsewhere....

    Metta Shoshin . :) ..

    JeffreyEarthninjaRowan1980
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    Only a Buddha knows what karma will come up. I have read that and believe it is a fact at least to the teachings of Buddha.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Your karma for killing slugs is to get slugged.

    ShoshinKruise
  • How toxic are the slugs which are then eaten by birds, foxes and other garden visitors such as trolls.

    VictoriousDharmaMcBum
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    You could try natural, non-lethal slug control. Slugs absolutely cannot stand copper. :)

    Copper barrier. When a slug crosses a copper barrier, its moist, mucusy body reacts with the copper and it receives an electric shock. Copper barriers can be pushed into the soil to make a vertical fence around a plant or bed, or laid flat. Either way, use 2- to 3-inch strips.

    Or something like "slug shield" http://eartheasy.com/non-toxic-pest-control/outdoor/slug-shield

    Or "SlugsAway" http://eartheasy.com/non-toxic-pest-control/outdoor/slugsaway-electronic-slug-and-snail-fence

    Kruise
  • @FairyFeller said:
    How toxic are the slugs which are then eaten by birds, foxes and other garden visitors such as trolls.

    I'm not sure, I've never seen a dead bird in my garden and no other wildlife gets in. I was making a wildlife garden to support the butterfly population

  • @seeker242 said:
    You could try natural, non-lethal slug control. Slugs absolutely cannot stand copper. :)

    Thanks

  • Sorry I know I've posted this already. I've been trying to create a butterfly garden with wildflower and other plants to support the butterfly population since it's going low, I've also been growing plants, taking cuttings and buying plants for it. Slugs kept eating the stuff I was putting into the garden. I put some pellets around one plant that was for purely decoration. I feel terrible for killing these creatures, the fact I've taken life away. What is the karma for killing a slug exactly? Do I suffer in another life or suffer a bad death.

  • @stevensheef said:
    I'm not sure, I've never seen a dead bird in my garden and no other wildlife gets in. I was making a wildlife garden to support the butterfly population

    The birds fly in and eat the dead slugs then fly off and when they digest the slugs they also digest the slug pellet contents inside the slug and if I were following the 'Karma' of it all I would also feel responsible for the secondary poisoning. Avoid anything containing metaldehyde and take a look at http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Homepest/slugs.htm

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Don't think about it!

  • @FairyFeller said:
    The birds fly in and eat the dead slugs then fly off and when they digest the slugs they also digest the slug pellet contents inside the slug and if I were following the 'Karma' of it all I would also feel responsible for the secondary poisoning. Avoid anything containing metaldehyde and take a look at http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Homepest/slugs.htm

    Thanks I'll make sure to pick them up and dispose of them.

  • ToshTosh Veteran

    I used to get a torch, an empty milk carton, and some gloves and at about 10 pm (or when it was dark), go hunting for snails with the torch.

    I'd wear the glove and shove 'em into the milk carton; good hunting is on a damp evening.

    Then I'd walk right down the street and empty the carton into a bush. It's important to drop them off a good way-away; otherwise they'll return to the same spot. A study has been done on this; 'tis true.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    There is no karma for killing slugs! However, if you intentionally harmed the then you must live out your own personal grief and misfortune that you have chosen for yourself. However, I am sure there are many other things that you should regret more - surely :0!

  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    OP, research what plants repel slugs. For example, planting marigolds will prevent aphids from infesting roses. Maybe there's something similar for slugs.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited July 2014

    @anataman said:
    There is no karma for killing slugs! However, if you intentionally harmed the then you must live out your own personal grief and misfortune that you have chosen for yourself. However, I am sure there are many other things that you should regret more - surely :0!

    Of course willfully killing sentient beings generates karmic seeds. But so does doing many good deeds, and saving the lives of sentient beings elsewhere. Positive karmic seeds.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Then go do good deeds!

  • SkeeterkbSkeeterkb Explorer

    It has been observed by scientists that plants possess awareness and even communicate with other plants. Why does plant life not engender the same concerns as animals?

    http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Karma free gardening or farming is impossible but humane methods that encourage slug eaters like an army of birds . . . oh wait . . .

    Thanks on behalf of birds for the efforts to encourage butterflies and caterpillars - Yum. Work with nature in the ways suggested which are both kind, efficient and involves slugs eaten by predators. Keep a balance. Good luck. :wave: .

    Cinorjer
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    You will come back as a duck and have to eat slugs and like it.

    We throw the slugs very, very gently over the fence, where they are devoured by my ducks.

    There are also shallow dishes with beer in them. If the slug drinks the beer and crawls in and pickles itself, well that's on the slug and it died very, very happy. The ducks don't like the marinated slugs, though.

    ShoshinCinorjerEarthninja
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Kia Ora,

    What's the Karma for killing slugs?

    10 lashes of the cat 'o nine tails then walk the plank.....Or if you're lucky, you could just pay a fine or do community service...

    Metta Shoshin . :) ..

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Snails have a "homing instinct" of around 2 miles. But how long it would take them to get back, and why, even, particularly if they encounter a rather nice garden in between, is anyone's guess.

    You need to have a pond, for frogs and toads (which are natural predators of snails and slugs). It doesn't need to be very big. or even very deep. You can also encourage hedgehogs, (google how) who also like those tasty treats. Put nesting boxes up for birds.

    Research also slug-resistant plants, and surround your meadow with these.
    Sharp gravel, copper, coffee grounds... oats.

    They love bran and oats. They gorge themselves, then cannot digest it, and literally die of a full belly.

    Birds love'em!!

    Bear in mind one thing: Nature has 'An Order of Things'. Some of the very insects you wish to encourage, will become food for other animals. It's the way it works.
    But having a 'natural' garden, is good....

    lobsterCinorjerDharmaMcBumanataman
  • When I first read the OT, my reaction was "Are you kidding me?" but I realize this question in some variation is going to constantly crop up.

    Implied is the attitude that killing slugs is a sin and that karma is going to punish you. Karma doesn't work that way. Funny how nobody asks something like "I planted a garden that will attract and help save butterflies and bees. What's the karma for that?"

    Keep in mind that the wise monks who wrote the sutras never heard of an ecosystem or the balance of nature required to keep the system in tune. The Buddhist farmers understood that better and tried their best to protect their gardens and crops from munching bugs and killed all the pests they could. The farmers didn't write the sutras, though.

    The monks knew that every bite of food that went into their begging bowls meant something had to die, even if it was rice. Monks in their temples had the luxury of worrying about not killing the bugs. Other people did it for them.

    You're not a monk. You can touch the world with as gentle hands as possible, but you still have to touch it. So try not to use pesticides when possible because that's the smart thing to do. I don't think it matters to a slug if you or a bird or frog kills it. When in England and growing my little garden in the back, we put down pans of beer to attract and kill the slugs at night. The bloke who lived above me said getting them drunk one last time was the least we could do.

    CittalobsterDharmaMcBum
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited July 2014

    It's really impossible to know the particular karmic fruits of killing slugs in the garden. Only a Buddha has the wisdom to see such things so clearly. All you can be sure about is that intentionally killing living beings, even slugs, makes bad karma. Just because the animal is small, does not mean it doesn't make bad karma. How that bad karma will come to manifest itself, it's impossible to know the particulars. All you can know is that it's bad and it will manifest itself somewhere, somehow.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    You could make a slug trap and then release the slugs elsewhere....

    ...like in your neighbour's garden, for instance :)

    Our garden is so tiny and zen that it attracts no slugs/snails.
    But they do destroy the strawberry bushes and cherry tomatoes of some friends of mine.
    I personally don't like to kill any bugs so I'm happy I don't have to face this choice.
    But at some level we have to get realistic and accept that some bugs are pests and have to be dealt with somehow.

  • MeatballMeatball Explorer

    Do what you need to do with best possible compassionate way. Just be aware of your action and sincerely (can't pretend. You can' t fool your own mind) feel remorse for your action if you caused any harm. Your karmic imprint will be lighter if intention and satisfaction are lighter.

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Your doing is your doing. It cannot be heavier or lighter than what it is; you can however, allow certain feelings to arise which can be interpreted by yourself in a certain way, such as regret.

    I would suggest looking at why you did this and that, and if there was intention for harm, then maybe regret is necessary. Then let it go; it has!

  • DharmaMcBumDharmaMcBum Spacebus Wheelman York, UK Veteran
    edited July 2014

    If you combine the wisdom of @federica and @anataman's posts. create a pond for the slugs various predators. That way you become the metaphorical monk reaping the benefits of the lay-farming toads, frogs and hedgehogs.

  • FairyFellerFairyFeller Veteran
    edited July 2014

    @DharmaMcBum said:
    If you combine the wisdom of federica and anatman's posts. create a pond for the slugs various predators. That way you become the metaphorical monk reaping the benefits of the lay-farming toads, frogs and hedgehogs.

    I can't remember the exact theorem but it goes something along the lines of by creating a situation that puts a life in danger or takes those lives you are responsible for that suffering. I might as well throw the snails in my garden on the bird table and gamble that they survive.

  • DharmaMcBumDharmaMcBum Spacebus Wheelman York, UK Veteran
    edited July 2014

    @Fairyfeller My theory goes that if you create a more natural situation it will balance out between the slugs, their predators and the food you're growing for yourself. Not all the slugs will get eaten, not all your crops will survive, and some predators will not eat or become prey to something else... And so the wheel turns ever onwards...

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    Exactly @DharmaMcBum - things equilibrate - they meet in the middle. How cool is that!

  • DharmaMcBumDharmaMcBum Spacebus Wheelman York, UK Veteran
    edited July 2014

    See @anataman, I think a gentleman named shaki-something or other mentioned an idea called "the middle way" a few thousand years ago? Maybe some folks on here have heard of it? Maybe...?

    anataman
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Haven't got a clue..... :p .

  • DharmaMcBumDharmaMcBum Spacebus Wheelman York, UK Veteran

    I must have imagined it then, oh well...

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    You sound so MAD YA MIKA!

  • SarahTSarahT Time ... space ... joy South Coast, UK Veteran

    I have some very beautiful hostas in my garden. The slugs think they are delicious. Putting gravel around them has not deterred the devastation. Should I allow them to be killed by slugs? Both are living things. Do I just let nature decide or can I intervene to keep my hostas?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2014

    I always either remove the offenders by torchlight, or give them a tastier treat. They love bran and oats, and beer is a preferred tipple for them, to water....

    lobster
  • SarahTSarahT Time ... space ... joy South Coast, UK Veteran

    Wonderful ideas! Thanks @federica :D

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited July 2014

    Slugs ate my hostas. Because they were 'mine' and not the gardens or slugs . . . eh wait . . . gardening with ahimsa . . . we call that 'planting only' gardening . . . There must be a Jain gardening web site?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    This discussion was created from comments split from: Happy is Harmlessness!.
  • SkeeterkbSkeeterkb Explorer

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    From the same video link: Natural slug control.

  • I feel like the catch and release thing would help you feel better (:

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    In a boggy wet area renowned for it's terrorizing slugs, I had much success in stopping them from getting into my vegetable garden with a simple rain gutter installed on the outside border of it. They would even stretch out across the surface of the water trying to get to the other side while still remaining attached to their side of the water filled gutter, but eventually give up to munch elsewhere.

    I guess you are presently disturbed that the killing of one life to encourage the ease of another's life is a questionable practice. I try to be careful to discern what I really need as opposed to what I just want, in trying to decide what to do. The wasp nest that we let be by our door, we left alone until my partner got stung and found out she had a serious health allergy to wasp stings. Need trumped want and so I exterminated the nest with regret.

    We as humans are largely a destructive terra forming organism without the co operative intelligence to realize that personal needs that trump group needs, will result in everyones suffering. If you can step out of that behavioral limitation then less unpleasant karma will result.

    David
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    If the slug were one of the million rebirths of Ted Bundy into lower realms, would it be bad karma to salt him or good?

  • While living in FL I would put a plug of chewing tobacco into a large garden sprayer. Let the plug set for a few days and spray the plants the garden pests were eating. It didn't harm the plants. Quite a few of the garden pests stayed away.

    Earthninja
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Would ordinary pipe tobacco do it, do you think?

  • @Federica. I don't know. But ordinary pipe tobacco is very different from chewing tobacco. Chewing tobacco is very densely packed and quite moist. When it degrades in water it produces an aroma that is far from pleasant. My preference was Redman chewing tobacco which at one time I chewed.

  • Need trumped want and so I exterminated the nest with regret.

    :bawl: .

    Indeed. Ahimsa is sometimes a luxury.

    It may seem very precious to be concerned with every precious life form. As a gardner I am prepared to commit greenfly genocide or slug slaughter. However I admire those who tread invisibly without obstructing the path of moonbeams.

    I like frogs and I accept they are slug murderers. I like foxes even though they eat a frog inclusive diet. Wasps are great even though some kill bees. Life is dukkha. Did I mention spiders and flies are friends of mine . . .

    . . . and now back to slug watch . . .

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