Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Enlightenment in THIS lifetime.

EarthninjaEarthninja WandererWest Australia Veteran
Hey guys!

I was wondering how many of you are directly working towards enlightenment? As in this is your purpose of practice.

I say this in the understanding that enlightenment is not something to be achieved. But a realisation. Call it nibanna, awakening, satori. Same pointing.

I heard Eckhardt Tolle say that to "realise" enlightenment you need to want it as badly as a drowning man needs air.
AND also let go the idea that it is something that the person can acquire.

For me this IS my ultimate purpose for practice. I can't ever leave this path because I know something is wrong with the way I look at the world.
If I am just quiet for a second I can then start to observe the delusion I know to be true. I'm then pushed back onto the path.
I'm thankful for the universe for putting me onto it.

So what I would like to know is how many/if any are seeking enlightenment in this lifetime?
ShoshinbgoadbuddistBunks
«1

Comments

  • I heard Eckhardt Tolle say that to "realise" enlightenment you need to want it as badly as a drowning man needs air.
    AND also let go the idea that it is something that the person can acquire

    True enough. The Buddha mentions in one of the suttras how he practiced extreme breath control. He got headaches. His need for enlightenment was let us say, intense.

    I am directly working away from enlightenment. My days of intensity left after the official t-shirt ceremony ...

    boobysattva
  • I heard Eckhardt Tolle say that to "realise" enlightenment you need to want it as badly as a drowning man needs air.
    AND also let go the idea that it is something that the person can acquire

    If wanting can achieve enlightenment, then it is a "force" that leads into it. I came across a teaching of Ajahn Chac who said - the mind should be neither moving forward or backwards, but no stoping as well. Is this the same as letting go of the idea of achieving?

    Also there are some traditions who teach not to use or apply "will power, desire or "control" - it is more of "letting go" of everything. I got this a lot from Theravada teachings.

    Earthninja
  • Once you're on your way you're on your way. I think I can attain enlightenment in a jiffy :) Just closing my eyes to everything. Now this may not be the kinds where I can see all my past lives and future lives as some claim is the characteristic of nibbana, but honestly I am not in the least interested in knowing what I used to be in my many past lives. I could have so many regrets. I would like to know of my future lives in the formless planes, but that would make me awfully scared so here and now is a good place to be. Jokes apart I think once you're on your way you really are. All the stops you need to take will keep coming regardless. And you will keep moving on. To what is exactly what you desire and that is where the catch is :) Just listen more to yourself because the journey can become quite arduous if you have too many voices in your head.
    EarthninjabgoadbuddistBunks
  • RodrigoRodrigo São Paulo, Brazil Veteran

    I gave up on trying to be enlightened. Now I'm just living.

    bgoadbuddistCinorjerboobysattvaBuddhadragon
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Enlightenment isn't something to achieve in that way, it's not a place to destine for and set sail. It's available to us in every single moment of our lives. We experience moments of it, we just get sucked back into samsara. Enlightenment is already hear, you just have to grab it and let go of it simultaneously.

    boobysattvaBuddhadragonlobster
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    I strive to be as aware as I can be but if I strive for enlightenment, ironically there seems to be too much baggage attached to the idea.
    lobsterboobysattvaBuddhadragon
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran

    @Earthninja said:

    So what I would like to know is how many/if any are seeking enlightenment in this lifetime?

    Yepp.

    Earthninjalobster
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    A couple of questions:

    1. As a point of interest, has anyone ever met someone who whole-heartedly longs for "enlightenment" two or more lifetimes in the future?

    2. Can anyone say precisely what it is they are seeking when they seek "enlightenment" or is it kind of like smelling warm apple pie from another room and being convinced that because it smells so wonderful -- because I love it -- it must therefore exist?

  • @genkaku i long for it and longing is a very integral part of it. what is it ? it is freedom from many conditions which this life requires of us. it is attaining what ? well - thats what i am here to figure out.
    lobster
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I am in no hurry for enlightenment. I am fine living another several lifetimes or more. I don't practice Buddhism in quest of enlightenment but rather for relief of suffering for myself and others. The ultimate release from suffering may be enlightenment,but I am not at this point seeking release. Just relief.

    lobsterEarthninja
  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited April 2015

    Enlightnment are within us, not outside in a space ship, they say.

    We are humans, so anger, hatred, delusion are part of our way.

    and our job is to observe, until we see this "self" dosent belong to us, (not only intellcutally but from within).

    When I listen to dhamma talk they always speak about practice meditation, practice meditation, practice meditation.....

    Do we practice enough? Or do we only speak and discuss it?

  • @Rodrigo said:
    I gave up on trying to be enlightened. Now I'm just living.

    :)

    If we are enlightened we would be 'just living'. If we have given up but still practice, in a sense we have given up in the right way.
    http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/sudgrad2.html

  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    @genkaku "Can anyone say precisely what it is they are seeking when they seek "enlightenment" or is it kind of like smelling warm apple pie from another room and being convinced that because it smells so wonderful -- because I love it -- it must therefore exist?"

    I can observe the mind and my body, I can see they both act independently. The person I think I am can't be found and when I look for him it's just thoughts. These thoughts are causing myself and all other beings suffering.

    I want understand who I am, this is what I mean by enlightenment. Realising what you are not.
  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited April 2015

    @Earthninja "I want understand who I am"

    There is nothing there? Or is it? :)

    lobster
  • @Earthninja said:

    I want to understand who I am, this is what I mean by enlightenment. Realising what you are not.

    The 'am not' experience is a common first gate. These guys will help if not there yet ...
    http://liberationunleashed.com

    Those requiring insight
    http://www.vipassana.com/course/

    For those wishing to dress up . . .
    http://aromeditation.org

    One life time? Or a wasted life? o:)

    EarthninjaNamada
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran
    I'm aiming for Arahantship in this life, I think about renouncing the household life and going into homelessness pretty much everyday for a while now.
    lobster
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    @Namada , well I know I exist. As what? I'm yet to find out. :)
    Namada
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "if any are seeking enlightenment in this lifetime?"

    No... I'm just going with the flow, enjoying the journey and not seeking anything in particular nothing special ....

  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran

    @genkaku said:
    A couple of questions:

    1. Can anyone say precisely what it is they are seeking when they seek "enlightenment" or is it kind of like smelling warm apple pie from another room and being convinced that because it smells so wonderful -- because I love it -- it must therefore exist?

    After a certain point you realize that the there is only rest and happiness in one place.

    How you get to that point is difficult to explain.

    But after that it is more of a sliding downhill toward the goal and it is pretty clear what it is. That is because the desire to do so becomes ingrained and bigger that any other desire.

    In fact I am afraid I might pass the (alleged) point where I am useless as a father and a family provider before my kids grow up. And am trying to ground myself in the world and sensual desire to halt the downslide. Neither am I sure that is true since I have not gotten there.

    But at length it is useless because the Desire for unbinding is far greater than any other desire in life no matter how much I try to delude myself otherwise.

    I simply cannot find any greater comfort or pleasure than in the pursuit of Unbinding or true equanimity.

    Even if it seems clear to me where i am heading it is not possible to really know the implications of unbinding before you get there.

    So I guess you are right. I long for it because it smells good. But it is not a place I am heading to. It is a thing I make (or rather unmake) and I know the direction if not always the path.

    /Victor

    lobster
  • @victor friend there is no downslide. if you will take up sutta study, meditate at predetermined times, spend time with a sangha from time to time, it is very possible to love this life and your friends and loved ones as also be mindful. infact it can make life better for you because you are a unique circumstance of life and you are given this so it can help you along. you will never be asked to choose till the time is right.
    lobster
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran

    @boobysattva said:
    victor friend there is no downslide. if you will take up sutta study, meditate at predetermined times, spend time with a sangha from time to time, it is very possible to love this life and your friends and loved ones as also be mindful. infact it can make life better for you because you are a unique circumstance of life and you are given this so it can help you along. you will never be asked to choose till the time is right.

    The choice is made and your advice is to late. I think it would be easier for me to stop having sex than stop wanting unbinding.

    But thank you all the same.

    /Victor

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    I don't care for enlightenment.
    Cessation of dukkha is good enough for me.

  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran

    Enlightenment is a poor choice of words. Unlightenment is closer to the meaning of Nirvana. Which is similar to putting out a light/flame rather than lighting up a room.

    Enlightenment is actually the direct opposite of what is meant.

    But I guess that it could refer to the brightening of the mind that also occurs on the path.

    Unmaking, unbinding or cessation of. Is all better.

    lobster
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    @Victorious or waking up after lifetimes if dreaming.
    Awakening or enlightenment. Waking up to what is.
  • @DhammaDragon said:
    I don't care for enlightenment.
    Cessation of dukkha is good enough for me.

    It's good enough for me too and probably the rest of the human race as well!

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:> I don't care for enlightenment. > Cessation of dukkha is good enough for me.

    They're the same thing.

    lobsterEarthninja
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    Enlightenment does seem like a funny word when we use it as a personal attribute rather than a function of awakening.

    To me it makes more sense to say a person is enlightening rather than saying they are enlightened.
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    Enlightenment means being enlightened to something, to understand.

  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    When used in the context of the 4 noble truths in their 3 phases and 12 aspects then I think enlightenment is a perfect word.

  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    @karasti
    I too avoid that term, like many other terms of attainment that conditioned reflexes like to hang their hat on.

    Gui
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited April 2015

    Awakening/awakened seems a better term to me.

    Indeed.
    Opening or unfolding is another way to describe. It is perhaps like a sigh of relief. The terminology is important and I feel should equate with experience.

    The word enlightenment makes more sense as a lifting of the weight of Dukkha. Becoming lighter.

    There is also a difference between moksha a brief insight and a permenant understanding. It is also important to realise that those 'reputed' are no help unless the reputation is deserved. Most have the sense not to expose their status. @how is right to warn of the conditioned responses that can be entrenched, or exposed by what is surprisingly very little and yet everything ...

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran
    edited April 2015

    @SpinyNorman said:
    They're the same thing.

    Yes and no.
    "Enlightenment" sounds like too big a word, metaphysical, mystic, sometimes downright new agey, spooky.
    "Cessation of suffering" sounds more plausible and easier to attain.

    bookworm
  • In my humble opinion, few people want to come out and say they are buddhist. In another thread where someone asked if Buddhism is a religion some even went so far as to say that it is sometimes perceived as a cult. I hate to say this but even in India where Buddhism was born, it has a new age perception about it. I am sure many here will own up to it as their religion without having to think twice and some will also say they are seeking enlightenment without pussy footing around it. But there are several boards on Buddhism for several closet Buddhists so to speak. Infact I have heard few American scholars and Buddhists also do this weird thing ie first preaching tenets of Buddhism and then quickly undermining / retracting claims by affecting skepticism under the garb of investigation/exploration. No one stops anyone from following any religion in this day and age. And people follow a few in a lifetime. We should just own up to whatever it is we currently ascribe to and move on. Its no big deal. Infact if we are not wholly committed to a religion we dont belong together anyway - that religion and I - because at the very basic it needs honesty and trust wont you say ?

  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:
    "Cessation of suffering" sounds more plausible and easier to attain.

    Cessation of suffering is more than perfect, it is the summum bonum of existence.

    Buddhadragon
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    I've heard it called god, awakening, enlightenment , consciousness, existence itself, satori, the void, emptiness, Brahman, universal self, nirvana, nibanna...

    Our minds need a concept when the reality is it's beyond a mere concept. Concepts are perceived in it.

    It's better to not give it a name because the mind will cling to names. But at the same time, then we couldn't even talk about this stuff without names.

    Alan Watts said the a perfect way to describe it is "The smell of burnt Almonds"
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Earthninja said:

    Alan Watts said the a perfect way to describe it is "The smell of burnt Almonds"

    From a ex fumigator's point of view "methyl bromide" has a 'smell of burnt Almonds'...I guess it could mean the same, as it does kill off all the nasties leaving the fumigated item free of defilements...

    Earthninja
  • Nibbana is not a concept or beyond comprehension. Till one does not acknowledge it, it will not arrive, and if one is not prepared to recognize it , it will not be experienced. It will remain a mere mental formation or concept or whatever one may wish to speculate it is about.

  • Glad so many know where we are headed and what it is like. Should be easy rafting from now on ... :p

    EarthninjaBuddhadragon
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2015

    @DhammaDragon said:..."Enlightenment" sounds like too big a word, metaphysical, mystic, sometimes downright new agey, spooky.
    "Cessation of suffering" sounds more plausible and easier to attain.

    So they 'sound different.
    But they're actually both the same.

    It's like saying something like 'water' is 'fluid ice'.

  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    @lobster haha I would say understanding how to build a raft is very different from actually doing it.
    Those ropes are hard to tie down!
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:> "Cessation of suffering" sounds more plausible and easier to attain.

    For me it's the other way round.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    ...You're using 'ropes...? :scream:

    Why didn't I think of that - !?

    Earthninjalobster
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    Ropes?! You were lucky!

    Earthninja
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Well, I figures, with no ropes.... I could do this instead.....

    Earthninja
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran
    Hahahah. Enlightenment 101 guys... Come on.

    You guys should read the "Reef Knot Sutta"
Sign In or Register to comment.