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Insight into sensation
Zania
Explorer
I have noticed during meditation that say for example I have a pain in my leg and my awareness is focused on the pain then my awareness goes somewhere else like to a thought or a sound. In that moment when I am no longer focused on the pain in my leg and therefore I am no longer aware of it does it even exist anymore? If I'm not aware of it at all how can it exist? The pain is created by the mind. It's not some kind of independent object. Without awareness there is no pain. It's the same for any sensation or thought or phenomena.
2
Comments
Physical pain is created by nerves in the body. How we perceive them in our mind does vary greatly. Other than very advanced practitioners, I promise there are pains you would not be able to take out of focus and make go away. That doesn't mean every twitch, every sensation, every niggle of discomfort needs to be paid attention to. Note and let it go. But pain also exists for a reason and to ignore it long term will cause more major health problems down the road. We most certainly can "check in" with our bodies regularly and choose what to give attention to and what to dismiss.
That which we focus on becomes our 'being'.
So for example label something as boredom, rather than stillness or emptiness and voila - it becomes b o r i n g ...
Some experiences are overwhelming, strong or conflicted emotions for example.
We can focus on pleasant thoughts or mantras designed to evoke preferred mind states.
So what is the sensation of spaciousness, the sense of being without object, the place where awareness arises?
Replies to the usual cushion ...
I think you missed the point. I'm not recommending ignoring pain. Of course some pains have a purpose. The bodies warning system. I'm just making a point about what I have noticed during sitting meditation.
I guess it's about where we direct our attention at any one time.
Where and how. It is a form of muscle memory or tai chi for the mind. In other words the slowing chatter of monkey mind during meditation. The physical posture on the cushion, so conducive to observing our duality, allows us to settle into a long term approximation or vehicle for insight/awakening.
You are only aware of one object at a time eg. it is impossible to be aware of 2 thoughts simultaneously. What happens when there is serious injury is the object keeps pulling the attention towards the pain repeatedly until there is the illusion of continuous pain.
If you are not aware of the body, sensations, feelings, thoughts etc, do they still exist? Are they still "you or yours"?
@Zania I didn't miss your point, just adding a note of caution because people have posted multiple time here before about experience pain in their knees, or back or whatever during meditation and thinking they have to push through it because that is what meditation is.
After a while these things become minor because all you need to do is consciously adjust when needed. Having that notion in mind even makes them occur less for some reason.
Sort of like a mosquito bite. It was there all along, but you only noticed it once you touched it i.e. focused on it.
Once you know something, it is really hard to be ignorant of it.
Ah yes ok. I understand. I'm not quite gung ho like that. Not a good idea to try and push through pain. Better to be gentle on ourselves.
Sensation is an experience. If you're not experiencing it, it isn't there.
Consciousness is an experience. If you're not experiencing it, it isn't there.
Hey! Wait a minute. You don't experience consciousness but imputes its presence through sense experience via eyes, nose, ears, tongue, body and mind doors.
You know you are conscious only when you are experiencing some thing. If you're not experiencing it ......
@pegembara "I think, therefore I am?" -Rene Descartes
Its actually a very deep question. Does anything exist without a mind to experience it?
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.” ~ Carl Sagan
You could trace back cause and effect to before there were minds like to the formation of the solar system and say that stuff was there happening, so maybe they do in some dark way.
Then again there is Schroedinger's Cat, so maybe the solar system was in a state of super position until minds evolved to collapse the wave function.
Its actually a very deep question that people have been contemplating for centuries.
Are you sure? If I throw a ball into a known space of geometrical planes, even if there is no-one to observe it, it will come to rest in the place predicted by Newton's Laws of Motion and some basic collision physics. After the fact, I can go and measure it and find it to be correct. To me, that means, yes, there is something there that I can observe, affect, predict and measure, which exists independently of me or other intelligent entities.
I think the "non-existence of things when there isn't anyone to observe" is a seductive question, but one with a clear answer.
Am I sure that its a deep question? I used two examples to show both sides, the formation of the solar system is essentially the same as your example above. But what about Schroedinger's Cat? Is it dead or alive? It wouldn't be non-existence, its ontological status would be in a state of super position.
I think that that might be true if the cat was a quantum entity. But most things at human scales have resolved themselves into a steady state - they just exist. Schroedinger was a bit of a kidder, wasn't he
At human scales there are very few instances where you can observe those kinds of quantum effects. The double slit experiment is one, I believe.
This area of science isn't my strongest suit, I did do the basics before university but I studied mechanical engineering afterwards, so if there are any physics degrees on the board who would care to correct me, they are very welcome.
Well the cats state depends on an effect of a quantum trigger to a vial of poison. The question is how much does larger reality depend on quantum states? I think you're probably right though and matter doesn't behave like it does on a quantum level at some point.
Another way to look at the mind bringing bringing "reality" into shape is the realm of psychophysics. The real world is just a mass of undifferentiated flux, its only when it contacts a mind does shape and color and such come into focus.
Just a question... do you guys go about your daily lives thinking these things all the time...? Because you know, if you do.... your brains must hurt like shit.....mine does already, and I'm just trying to wade through all this stuff....
I like to learn about science and philosophy so not all the time but I do spend some of my free time, and time listening at work to these sorts of topics. Its kind of like most things, if you're not familiar with the ideas and words it is hard. For example you have an easy command of behavior and relationships that I'd have a hard time following if you got in deep to the details.
Well, I guess we all have our fortes... I follow this stuff just enough to make sure you guys don't start bickering....
How's that working out?
Actually "I think, therefore I think that i think that ......... I am" is more accurate.
No thinker before and after thoughts. The thinker is thoughts. They are not separate.
One can't think before thinking! Ergo "you" actually don't think. Thoughts appear.
"You" can only be aware of thoughts.
The experiencer/observer is actually the experience/observed.
But without the experience, where would you be?
So far, not too bad... I'm just loitering with big stick... don't mind me..... carry on....