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pali calligraphy for tattoos

edited March 2008 in General Banter
hiya folks. i've been planning to get a tattoo of a few words in pali. obviously, i want to make sure i get the translations right and provide the artist with accurate calligraphy. can anyone help me out or point me in the right direction? metta, scott

Comments

  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited February 2008
    That's a cool idea! I don't have any help for you but I'm looking forward to hearing if anyone else does. If I ever got a tattoo it would be something in Pali. Probably just the Four Noble Truths, or something. I really like that idea, Scotta.
  • edited February 2008
    thanks brigid. i've got some interesting replies from other discussion groups where i posted this. some have been very judgmental, almost mean even, asking why i would want to do such a thing. "did you know tattoos are permanent!?!," one "buddhist" exclaimed! hiho! anyway... it's just something i'd like to do. i have a nice altar at home that helps me focus me in on my buddha nature when i sit. this is really just an altar to go... i'll probably go with "tao" in chinese with "buddha, dharma, sangha" in pali. s
  • edited February 2008
    Oh dear,

    I was going to suggest you post a request for translation at e-sangha's Pali forum - but not mention it was for a tattoo.

    I guess you found that out for yourself. :(

    The Worst Horse has a big Dharma tattoo archive:
    http://www.theworsthorse.net/bodyvows3/bodyvows3.html

    Umm... I know how to write Buddha Dharma Sangha in Chinese, but not Pali. Sorry.

    PS- 佛 法 僧(fo2) (fa3) (seng1)
    I believe Tao is (dao4)
  • edited February 2008
    It might be:
    बुद्ध
    धम्म
    संघ
    but I'm not sure. I can't tell Pali from Sanskrit.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited February 2008
    Pali? Did someone call me? Oh, sorry, wrong number...

    Pally
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2008
    That's ok. It was ringing anyway.... :D
  • edited February 2008
    thanks for the help, jacx... ... obviously, i'm in no rush. just want to get it right. here's what i heard from another board....

    "Pali's written in a whole mess of different writing systems: Most people who read Pali today are reading it in Roman script, Thai, Burmese, Khmer, or Sinhala, tho other scripts are & have been used. I don't know what the latest research on the earliest writing system for Pali suggests, but I believe we understand Pali to have been written around the same time as the first inscriptions in the Brahmi script. Which script are you planning to use for your tattoo?"-B

    > thanks for getting back, bob. i've received some pretty strange replies... i'd like to find the script for the earliest known buddhist texts. i was looking for "buddha, dharma, sangha."-S

    "You probably want Brahmi, then, which is actually kind of clunky looking. If you want something attractive & old-fashioned looking, you might try the Lanna script or Khmer. (Also, if you want it in Pali, rather than Sanskrit, you'll want dhamma, not dharma.)-B
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited February 2008
    Scott,
    scotta wrote: »
    hiya folks. i've been planning to get a tattoo of a few words in pali. obviously, i want to make sure i get the translations right and provide the artist with accurate calligraphy. can anyone help me out or point me in the right direction? metta, scott

    Here is a site where you can preview the alphabets of the various scripts in which Pali is, or has been, written. As for the script in which the earilest Buddhist texts are written, the earilest that has been discovered thus far is Kharosthi. Happy hunting.

    Jason
  • edited February 2008
    jacx wrote: »
    Oh dear,

    I was going to suggest you post a request for translation at e-sangha's Pali forum - but not mention it was for a tattoo.

    I guess you found that out for yourself. :(

    The Worst Horse has a big Dharma tattoo archive:
    http://www.theworsthorse.net/bodyvows3/bodyvows3.html

    Umm... I know how to write Buddha Dharma Sangha in Chinese, but not Pali. Sorry.

    PS- 佛 法 僧(fo2) (fa3) (seng1)
    I believe Tao is (dao4)


    Wow that Tara tattoo is beautiful. I don't see myself getting any tattoos (I'm too fickle--I may seriously regret it in a few years) but if I did . . .
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited February 2008
    Hi Scotta,

    My first advice is to find a tattoo artist who is sober at the time and who does not have too wicked a sense of humour.

    And, above all, and with all respect to those who have said otherwise, remember that a tattoo is not permanent. It will only last as long as your skin does.

    Have fun.
    mmmike
  • edited February 2008
    Haha, I think the script I posted earlier was Sanskrit, but with Pali spelling (Dhamma).

    Noah Levine's Dharma Punx forum: http://www.dharmapunx.com/msg/default.asp has a couple of threads about tattoos. Followed a link from there to a website that does custom translation for tattoos (don't know how much they charge): http://www.tattoos-by-design.co.uk/ They don't have Brahmi listed though.
  • edited February 2008
    I'd be really really sure you want one.

    A few years ago I was convinced I wanted a crescent moon (goddess smbol) tattoo but my husband said he would leave me if I did so.

    I am so glad he said that because my feelings have changed and I no longer feel I have to wear a label of any sort, so I would have regretted it
  • edited February 2008
    funny, knitwitch, i have a bright yellow crescent moon on one shoulder and a turquoise star on the other... wow, responses have been so interesting on this one (from this and other forums). not sure why people have such stong feelings about tattoos. i know some folks who have come to my home and find it stange that it's "marked" with a small altar. but i assume that's more about ignorance re my practice.

    and hi jacx... read the levine book not too long ago. related to so much of it. he's got a five-day coming up at spirit rock that i might go to. i've been in touch with the artist he used (eddy d), but he can't really help me with translation. got some academicish help from pali yahoo group, tho.

    in the end, i'm in no rush... just gathering info. elohim's link was very helpful (thanks elohim!). i'm still trying to figure out which is the script for the oldest known pali cannon/sutra texts. then i can get a translator involved...
  • edited February 2008
    Please don't think from my remark that I am against tattoos per se. I have lots of friends with tattoos, I was only advising a lot of thought as to WHICH one you do, in case you change your mind .... as I did.

    When all said and done, it's your body and entirely up to you what you do with it.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited March 2008
    Well, from someone else who has tattoos, I do recommend to everyone, think about it. I've got a few more to do, but each of them has deep personal meaning to me. I personally prefer to use Japanese for my tattoos (when it's in a written language), and so far, I have Amerika no Heishi (American Soldier) on my left arm, and a tiger on my right shoulder. I'm going to get an Asian dragon on my left shoulder, duty-honor-country on my right arm, and the Kanji for Zen on the left side my chest. I'm also considering an eight spoked wheel paired with it.
  • edited March 2008
    I'm getting my first tattoo this Spring. I've decided on the 'dew on the grass' ink sketch that accompanies Issa's most famous haiku. I knew I wanted to get a tattoo in memory of some important people in my life, but it took years for me to decide on the design. And I still have a bit of uncertainty, because I wanted it behind my left shoulder, but I've had serious dry skin problems this winter and my back is peeling (bloody Alberta weather)! :grumble: I'll have to ask the artist what to do about that.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited March 2008
    jacx, it's simple, you'll needs lots of skin lotion for it. Regardless of any skin condition.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2008
    If your tattooist is worth 'his salt', (as we say here in quaint ol' UK!!) then he should give you good guidance on how to care for your tattoo.
    If that comes up short, come back here and tell.

    I got 8 of them.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited March 2008
    One on each limb, I presume? :D

    Palzang
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2008
    Yeh.



    So....?

    :p

    :lol:

  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited March 2008
    I have never had a tat but am contemplating getting a useful one. I shall have DO NOT RESUSCITATE in bold red letters across my chest as notes are rarely read at the critical moment.
  • edited March 2008
    I similarly thought of getting "This body is for medical research" on the sole of my foot .... but then realised how much it would hurt.
  • edited March 2008
    I have never had a tat but am contemplating getting a useful one. I shall have DO NOT RESUSCITATE in bold red letters across my chest as notes are rarely read at the critical moment.

    What would that be in Pali script? :grin:
  • edited March 2008
    oy! and i'm still having trouble finding buddha, dharma, sangha in pali!
  • edited March 2008
    Knitwitch wrote: »
    I similarly thought of getting "This body is for medical research" on the sole of my foot .... but then realised how much it would hurt.

    Ouch!! That is a sensitive area.
  • edited March 2008
    For Brigid:

    ทุกฺขํ อริยสจฺจํ
    Noble Truth of Suffering.
    Dukkhaṃ Ariyasaccaṃ

    ทุกฺขสมุทโย อริยสจฺจํ
    Noble Truth of the cause of suffering.
    Dukkhasamudayo Ariyasaccaṃ

    ทุกฺขนิโรโธ อริยสจฺจํ
    Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering.
    Dukkhanirodho Ariyasaccaṃ

    ทุกฺขนิโรธคามินี ปฏิปทา อริยสจฺจํ
    Dukkhanirodhagāminīpaṭipadā Ariyasaccaṃ
    the way leading to the cessation of dukkha

    For scotta:

    Buddha
    Thai: พระพุทธ
    Pali: พุทฺธ

    Dhamma
    Thai: พระธรรม
    Pali: ธมฺม

    Sangha
    Thai: พระสงฆ์
    Pali: สงฺฆ

    I updated it today 05.03.2008 Had a correction done

    With best regards and good luck

    I don't know how to make the script bigger, but if you copy and paste it into excel or so for the tattoer.
    mmmike
  • edited March 2008
    thanks so much ShinMeiDokuJoh. what script is this in? scott
  • edited March 2008
    This is Pali in Thai script.
    In other scripts like Brahmi ot Karoshti I don't have it, I am sorry
  • edited March 2008
    thank you all so much. i'm now looking for karoshti and/or brahmi per the gandhāran texts. metta, s
  • edited March 2008
    here's an update, in case anyone's interested...

    more from wikipedia on those first known buddist manuscripts:

    "The British Library Collection
    In 1994 the British Library acquired a group of some eighty Gandharan manuscript fragments from the first half of the first century. They were written on birch bark and stored in clay jars, which preserved them. They are thought to have been found in eastern Afghanistan (Bamiyan, Jalalabad, Hadda, which were part of Gandhara), and the clay jars were buried in ancient monasteries. A team has been at work, trying to decipher the manuscript: three volumes have appeared. The manuscripts ware written in Gāndhārī using the Kharoṣṭhī script, and are therefore sometimes also called the Kharosthi Manuscripts.

    The collection is composed of a diversity of texts: a Dhammapada, discourses of Buddha (for example the Rhinoceros Horn Sutra), Avadanas and Purvayogas, commentaries and Abhidharma texts.

    There is evidence to suggest that these texts may belong to the Dharmaguptaka school, an offshoot of the Theravadins (Salomon 2000, p.5). There is an inscription on a jar to that school, and there is some textual evidence as well. On a semi-related point, the Gandhāran text of the Rhinoceros Sutra contains what may be a polemic against the Mahāyāna. (Salomon, 2000, p. 127)"

    re brahmi...

    "The Schøyen collection
    The Schøyen collection consists of birch bark, palm leaf and vellum manuscripts. They are thought to have been found in the Bamiyan caves, where refugees were seeking shelter. Most of these manuscripts were bought by a Norwegian collector, named Martin Schøyen, while smaller quantities are in possession of Japanese collectors. These manuscripts date from the second to the eighth century AD.

    The Schøyen collection includes fragments of canonical Suttas, Abhidharma, Vinaya and Mahayana texts. Most of these manuscripts are written in the Brahmi scripts, while a small portion is written in Gandhari/Karoshthi script

    i know wikipedia isn't always the best source, and i'm certainly no expert. i'm not sure how far these texts are "removed" from the pali oral tradition. i understand that the pali canon/tipitaka was first written down during the first fourth buddhist council (first century bce). i also understand that this council was held in sri lanka. so i assume these first writings were in a sri lankan text. but i haven't heard of any of these texts remaining - as opposed to the gandhāran texts mentioned above, some of which date back to "the first half of the first century." so were talking about existing scripts that date to within 100-200 years of the council.

    i guess my task now is to find and choose either early sri lankan script (which would have likely been used during the council), or Kharoṣṭhī as it was ued in those earliest known manuscripts. like i said, very determined to get this right before i go under the needle!

    metta, s
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