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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Once you have awoken to the Truth, 'letting go' has already occurred.
The fact that you have attained enlightenment, means that 'Letting go' is a redundant exercise. It's already been done. If you haven't let go, then you cannot be enlightened, and the Truth still eludes you.
Letting go is just not hanging on to something. It should not be confused with throwing or pushing something away which is actually just another form of attachment..
Letting go of something is about no longer tethering yourself to it.
When memories arise of people, then just allow these memories there own birth, life and passing on as you would any other phenomena in meditation. No need to do anything more than be a present observer of that unfolding memory. Often with attachments it is a process of watching not only the memory but how we habitually manipulate that incoming data.
All a practice is in the end, is learning how to stop molesting that data.
The Ten Fetters (Samyojana), according to the Sutta Pitaka
Self-Illusion (sakkaya-ditthi)
Doubt(vicikiccha)
Attachment to mere Rule and Ritual (silabbata-paramaso)
Sensual Lust (kamacchando, kāma-cchanda)
Ill-Will (vyapada)
Craving for Fine-Material Existence (rupa-raga)
Craving for Immaterial Existence (arupa-raga)
Conceit (mana)
Restlessness (uddhaccan)
Ignorance (avijja).
@upekka said:
The Ten Fetters (Samyojana), according to the Sutta Pitaka
Self-Illusion (sakkaya-ditthi)
Doubt(vicikiccha)
Attachment to mere Rule and Ritual (silabbata-paramaso)
Sensual Lust (kamacchando, kāma-cchanda)
Ill-Will (vyapada)
Craving for Fine-Material Existence (rupa-raga)
Craving for Immaterial Existence (arupa-raga)
Conceit (mana)
Restlessness (uddhaccan)
Ignorance (avijja).
When we start our journey we carry so much excess. Our pilgrim's sack is almost overflowing. From time to time we discard what is no longer useful and retain what is still needed.
But where's the sun? Out there or in here, or both or neither?
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Where isn't the sun?
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Letting go is just not hanging on to something. It should not be confused with throwing or pushing something away which is actually just another form of attachment..
Letting go of something is about no longer tethering yourself to it.
When memories arise of people, then just allow these memories there own birth, life and passing on as you would any other phenomena in meditation. No need to do anything more than be a present observer of that unfolding memory. Often with attachments it is a process of watching not only the memory but how we habitually manipulate that incoming data.
All a practice is in the end, is learning how to stop molesting that data.
Sounds easier than it is for me. When I think of loved ones that have passed it is hard to let the thoughts go without manipulating them because I always feel the need to say "I love you" or figure out what went wrong. There's no guilt or anger or the like but just a deep love.
Letting go of the usual fetters isn't hard once I see them and the material "belongings" is a snap... I neither cling nor throw.
I just seem to feel that letting go of family or friends that have passed is in bad form. Either that or the thought of it frightens me a little bit.
Or I guess it could also be that I feel sometimes it's best to bow to the middle way.
I still could be missing something key right under my nose.
I didn't mean to imply that it was easy to do. In fact to do so, challenges the very karmic inertia that spawned you. From the perspective of self, it is the active dissolving of the very habituated responses which have defined who you are.
Often profoundly unsettling, this process is usually eased into bit by bit, as each of us are able, as a simple ongoing commitment to a meditation practice.
@ourself said:
I still could be missing something key right under my nose.
your attachment to loved ones brings the suffering, sadness, feeling is not right, something wrong with this system, why some loved ones had to leave me (piyehi vippayogo) etc.
cause and effect
whatever i have to face now whether it is 'like' or 'dislike' (this is the effect)
i have done something before (this is the cause)
if i do not mindful now and do not do harm to myself or others (skillful in the present moment) (this is the cause)
i would have to face 'something that i do not like' (this will be the effect in future)
so
practice is easy
_do not harm myself or others
do good to me and to others (including nature too)
_
Often profoundly unsettling, this process is usually eased into bit by bit, as each of us are able, as a simple ongoing commitment to a meditation practice.
and
after having a calm mind
we have to contemplate on Dhamma that we heard and read too
@upekka said:
once one is awaken to the Truth and mindful 'letting go' is not hard
once one practice 'letting go' to the fullest one is with the Truth always and that one is called Full Enlightened One or Thusness
Indeed
Letting go is not by hard will. As much as one wants to, letting go is impossible for one wrought with ignorance, wrong views of self and inherency resulting in clinging to the imputed 'I (subjective agent/perceiver/doer), me, mine (objective ownership)'.
Trying to force away 'attachment' and 'afflictions' via hard will is a result of conceiving self-view -- as if there is a self, a controller that can control things to be the way 'I' want. Dharma seer sees dependent origination. Based on requisite conditions, there is release. Just like an unfit person cannot run far and fast no matter how strong-willed is he as he lacks the requisite condition (a strong body) to run fast, but gradually through training and diet it becomes possible, in fact a strong and fit person does not even need strong will to run fast -- it is natural for a strong person to run fast.
In the case of Dharma, it is through practice, and then awakening and the actualization of wisdom, that letting go simply happens in itself based on those conditions. By perceiving the emptiness of self and things, it is impossible to cling on to them even if one wants to.
Ajahn Amaro: "In short, clinging can’t cling if there is too much wisdom around."
"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.
"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.
"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.
"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.
"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.
"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.
"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.
"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.
"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."
Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
when practicing deeply the Prajna Paramita perceives that all five skandhas are empty
and is saved from all suffering and distress.
Why is letting go hard? I think because we don't actually know or believe the above! If we still think there is something significant to be obtained from holding onto any of the five skandhas, then it's hard to let go. Once we realize there is nothing significant to be obtained from holding on, then we just naturally let go.
@seeker242 said:
Why is letting go hard? I think because we don't actually know or believe the above! If we still think there is something significant to be obtained from holding onto any of the five skandhas, then it's hard to let go. Once we realize there is nothing significant to be obtained from holding on, then we just naturally let go.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment. ie. as impermanent, unsatisfactory and not-self.
"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
That is seeing things as they are.
"All conditioned things are impermanent" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
"All conditioned things are unsatisfactory" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
"All things are not-self" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
Comments
Once you have awoken to the Truth, 'letting go' has already occurred.
The fact that you have attained enlightenment, means that 'Letting go' is a redundant exercise. It's already been done. If you haven't let go, then you cannot be enlightened, and the Truth still eludes you.
@ourself
Letting go is just not hanging on to something. It should not be confused with throwing or pushing something away which is actually just another form of attachment..
Letting go of something is about no longer tethering yourself to it.
When memories arise of people, then just allow these memories there own birth, life and passing on as you would any other phenomena in meditation. No need to do anything more than be a present observer of that unfolding memory. Often with attachments it is a process of watching not only the memory but how we habitually manipulate that incoming data.
All a practice is in the end, is learning how to stop molesting that data.
this is true for people who have been 'practicing'
some monks are such people
this is true for awaken lay-people, and for some monks, because there are still things to be done
once awaken to the Truth, only three fetters vanish
(sakkaya ditti, vicikicca, selabbatha paramasa)
this is applicable to lay people and some monks too
these type of people who has awaken to the Truth first time, has some more work to do
that is to get rid of other seven fetters
(kama-raga, patiga, rupa-raga, arupa-raga, uddcca, mana, abhijja)
a person who has got rid of all 10 fetters canonly be called a Full Enlightened One
He has nothing more to be done
(it is appreciated if someone who knows the translation for pali-words could provide them)
@upekka, if you 'supply' Pali words. it is up to you to provide the translation. If you can't, then don't use Pali words. That simple.
The Ten Fetters (Samyojana), according to the Sutta Pitaka
Self-Illusion (sakkaya-ditthi)
Doubt(vicikiccha)
Attachment to mere Rule and Ritual (silabbata-paramaso)
Sensual Lust (kamacchando, kāma-cchanda)
Ill-Will (vyapada)
Craving for Fine-Material Existence (rupa-raga)
Craving for Immaterial Existence (arupa-raga)
Conceit (mana)
Restlessness (uddhaccan)
Ignorance (avijja).
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/buddhist/fetters.htm
Letting go of what?
There are so many questions that would be cleared if the understanding of dependent origination was prioritized.
Want links?
/Victor
>
...Of everything you don't need to bring Enlightenment.
I don't think we'll ever get agreement on DO.
>
When we start our journey we carry so much excess. Our pilgrim's sack is almost overflowing. From time to time we discard what is no longer useful and retain what is still needed.
Who needs agreement?
Either the sun goes up or it don't.
But where's the sun? Out there or in here, or both or neither?
Where isn't the sun?
Sounds easier than it is for me. When I think of loved ones that have passed it is hard to let the thoughts go without manipulating them because I always feel the need to say "I love you" or figure out what went wrong. There's no guilt or anger or the like but just a deep love.
Letting go of the usual fetters isn't hard once I see them and the material "belongings" is a snap... I neither cling nor throw.
I just seem to feel that letting go of family or friends that have passed is in bad form. Either that or the thought of it frightens me a little bit.
Or I guess it could also be that I feel sometimes it's best to bow to the middle way.
I still could be missing something key right under my nose.
Practise and find out.
:thumbsup: .
well, given that we are all, apparently 'stardust' the answer lies both inside AND out.
ourself
Sounds easier than it is for me.
@ourself
I didn't mean to imply that it was easy to do. In fact to do so, challenges the very karmic inertia that spawned you. From the perspective of self, it is the active dissolving of the very habituated responses which have defined who you are.
Often profoundly unsettling, this process is usually eased into bit by bit, as each of us are able, as a simple ongoing commitment to a meditation practice.
your attachment to loved ones brings the suffering, sadness, feeling is not right, something wrong with this system, why some loved ones had to leave me (piyehi vippayogo) etc.
cause and effect
whatever i have to face now whether it is 'like' or 'dislike' (this is the effect)
i have done something before (this is the cause)
if i do not mindful now and do not do harm to myself or others (skillful in the present moment) (this is the cause)
i would have to face 'something that i do not like' (this will be the effect in future)
so
practice is easy
_do not harm myself or others
do good to me and to others (including nature too)
_
and
after having a calm mind
we have to contemplate on Dhamma that we heard and read too
Indeed
Letting go is not by hard will. As much as one wants to, letting go is impossible for one wrought with ignorance, wrong views of self and inherency resulting in clinging to the imputed 'I (subjective agent/perceiver/doer), me, mine (objective ownership)'.
Trying to force away 'attachment' and 'afflictions' via hard will is a result of conceiving self-view -- as if there is a self, a controller that can control things to be the way 'I' want. Dharma seer sees dependent origination. Based on requisite conditions, there is release. Just like an unfit person cannot run far and fast no matter how strong-willed is he as he lacks the requisite condition (a strong body) to run fast, but gradually through training and diet it becomes possible, in fact a strong and fit person does not even need strong will to run fast -- it is natural for a strong person to run fast.
In the case of Dharma, it is through practice, and then awakening and the actualization of wisdom, that letting go simply happens in itself based on those conditions. By perceiving the emptiness of self and things, it is impossible to cling on to them even if one wants to.
Ajahn Amaro: "In short, clinging can’t cling if there is too much wisdom around."
AN 11.2
PTS: A v 312
Cetana Sutta: An Act of Will
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1997
Alternate format: [SuttaReadings.net icon]
"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.
"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.
"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.
"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.
"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.
"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.
"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.
"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.
"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."
Yes, the Cetana Sutta says it all really.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.002.than.html
Why is letting go hard? I think because we don't actually know or believe the above! If we still think there is something significant to be obtained from holding onto any of the five skandhas, then it's hard to let go. Once we realize there is nothing significant to be obtained from holding on, then we just naturally let go.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment. ie. as impermanent, unsatisfactory and not-self.
"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
That is seeing things as they are.
Gold