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Surrender

misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a HinduIndia Veteran
edited April 18 in Philosophy

How important is surrender in your spiritual practice? I watched the below insightful video so thought of sharing with you all:

What are your views regarding the above video?
Also just to clarify - I read in some posts that I do not follow the suggestions of members of this website, so just to clarify - I value your suggestions and that is why I ask for it and then I follow or not follow depending on other things.

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    No,you never follow, because you procrastinate, and find excuses to not follow, because you choose to not exercise the necessary willpower.
    Thank you for valuing our suggestions. However, there will come a point where we may well cease putting them forward altogether.
    If, as your profile tells us, you are a Hindu, it begs the question, which way are you going, exactly?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 18

    The video is founded on a belief in God. Giving up the control of your life to a higher being, would, in a Buddhist's eyes, a resignation of skill, and a wrong view.
    Surrendering puts everything "out there" whereas with Buddhism, YOU are responsible. The buck stops here.
    It's very 'New Agey'...

    "Reality is in full consciousness of itself..."
    What the heck does that even mean...?!

    And, explain to me what this 'it' is...

    I also think you're taking it as the confirmation that it's ok to do nothing.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    God, I had to stop listening, he's just babbling meaninglessly... I am honestly finding it impossible to understand what the hell he is trying to say...

  • LionduckLionduck Veteran

    Surrender to an outer being or power? I grew up with that concept and it failed. That is why I became Buddhist. I awakened my power over my life and unity with the environment/universe. Abdication of your power, of the authority over your life means you give someone or something the power to control your life. A lot of damage was done to mankind as a result of that surrender.
    we free ourselves by taking responsibility for our own lives. We learn to love ourselves enough to truly love others. By awakening the Buddha within, I/we free myself/ourselves to accept the interconnectedness with everything and everyone as an active participant. it is liberating. it generates compassion. it is the means to change my/our karma.

    Peace to all

    federicalobsterperson
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    Surrender is one of those essential skills. There are parts of life where you have no choice but to surrender to that which is, because it carries you along and not to surrender to it would just cause unnecessary struggle on your part. Struggle against that which is is dukkha.

    Then again, it is said in the Serenity Prayer:

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

    There are areas of life where surrender is not appropriate, where one needs to fight for change and take decisive action. It’s a question of knowing the difference, where to relax and where to be charged and energetic.

    personEliz
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Surrender

    I haven't listened to the youtube clip you posted @misecmisc1 , however I've listened to some of his talks in the past, he make some interesting points...Anyhow...

    I would say surrendering to what is, is important,even though to surrender is an illusion when it comes to the concept of non-self...

    However I guess when it comes down to the nitty gritty of non duality AKA not twoness, I'm under the impression one surrenders the so-called self (surrendering one self and all who sail in her), to the ever present awareness of non-self...

    In other words "I" surrender to [my] non-self...

    So in a nutshell ....

    I give up nothing ..: I let go of nothing because I have nothing to give up, or let go of, and in [not] doing so, everything starts to fall into place...( not that everything was ever out of place in the first place)

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited April 18

    I remember that in some documentary which was on our brain or on the question of Is there an I, in that the researchers found that when the participants thought that they made a choice to do something, just few milliseconds or microseconds earlier, the decision was already made in the brain - so who or what makes that decision about which the person becomes conscious after few moments?

    My theoretical understanding says - since ultimately there is no self as an entity, then how can it be the case that there is an entity inside us, which decides what to do - we do have an illusion of an entity inside us which makes a choice but that is limited choice from the limited options available and not complete free will - I am confused on this thing.

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    Less questions @misemisc, more practice.

    You don’t have to know the answers to everything to meditate.

    Find a teacher (online or in person) that resonates with you and follow their instructions.

    I hope one day you’ll stop coming here and asking virtually the same things over again and just walk the path to being a happier and more content person.

    ???

    Shoshinperson
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited April 18

    Surrender, in Sufism is called enslavement to the Divine Will. Surrender is important as it is a form of humility in the face of:

    • Karma
    • Life, the Universe and Everything ... taxes
    • Heedless and headless chickens

    ... and of course our notoriously useless, monkey minded selves.

    If we as bodhisattvas live for others well being, we are surrendering. In effect this eventually means we make conscious choices, rather than at the whim of unconscious, subconscious and pseudo-tao wu-wei meandering ...

    The important thing is an answer may be surrendered from its intended recipient and empower those able to enable or surrender to its potential ...

    Fly the flag

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @Bunks said:
    Less questions @misemisc, more practice.

    You don’t have to know the answers to everything...

    That's a - if not the - very good point.

    Sometimes, there ARE no answers. None that we are capable of discerning or comprehending.
    Sometimes, if something is unfathomable, the best answer is to not seek any answers, but simply sit and abide in a state of awareness, minfulness and just be present in our attention of this moment.
    You have to ask yourself, will knowing any answer actually help my practice, right now?
    If the answer to that question is either no, or I don't know, leave it be.

    I don't for one moment believe it's a deathbed conundrum for the likes of us.
    There are more relevant and pertinent affairs to attend to.

    Bunks
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:
    I remember that in some documentary which was on our brain or on the question of Is there an I, in that the researchers found that when the participants thought that they made a choice to do something, just few milliseconds or microseconds earlier, the decision was already made in the brain - so who or what makes that decision about which the person becomes conscious after few moments?

    My theoretical understanding says - since ultimately there is no self as an entity, then how can it be the case that there is an entity inside us, which decides what to do - we do have an illusion of an entity inside us which makes a choice but that is limited choice from the limited options available and not complete free will - I am confused on this this thing

    You could think of it this way....

    "I Am" ( you are) just an abstraction drawn from the karmic memory energies (repeated actions) of the experiences had by the five clinging aggregates which make up the psycho physical phenomenon known as the self.... as it interacts with ( and is often influenced by) the data received through the sense doors ...

    Knowing about the vibrating bundle of energy flux that "I Am" (which is held together by karmic glue) in a sense provides "Awareness" with the means to navigate the Dukkha obstacles, gradually reducing the acts of self sabotage which "I" have been accustom to, from the years of conditioning AKA wallowing in ignorance ....

    @Bunks however has hit the nail on the head...

    Less questions @misemisc, more practice

    I'm afraid that no matter how much you try, you're not going to intellectualise your way out of your dillemma...

    Practice makes perfect @misecmisc1 and Perfect practice make perfect Practice

    What seems to run through all your posts @misecmisc1 , is your lack of understanding of "Anatta"...( failing to connect/grasp) ...Perhaps it's your Hindu upbringing/conditioning and you not being able to loosen the grip of the concept of Atman that is the real cause of your dilemma/your ongoing struggle with Buddhism and the Dharma ....

    All major orthodox schools of Hinduism –Nyaya, Vaisesika, Samkhya, Yoga, Mimamsa, and Vedanta– accept the foundational premise of the Vedas and Upanishads that "Ātman exists". Jainism too accepts this premise, though it has its own idea of what that means. In contrast, both Buddhism and the Charvakas deny that there is anything called "Ātman/soul/self"

    It would seem that many Hindus @misecmisc1 have found true inner peace by practicing their Hindu 'faith'...It has a rich history with many enlightened teachers...

    It's different strokes for different folks @misecmisc1

    May you find what it is you're looking for...

    Bunks
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:
    My theoretical understanding says - since ultimately there is no self as an entity, then how can it be the case that there is an entity inside us, which decides what to do - we do have an illusion of an entity inside us which makes a choice but that is limited choice from the limited options available and not complete free will - I am confused on this thing.

    You could say that the consciousness becomes aware of a decision being made only after a short period. But choices are always made from among the possibilities that you see, hence more awareness leads to more choice and greater freedom.

    Brain science is an interesting thing, most of us don’t really have a good grasp of what we look like on the inside. We don’t know the seat of our emotions, or the processes that are triggered by our perceptions. It’s only recently that scientific strides have begun to be made in how consciousness works.

    person
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Brain is different to Mind.
    You make your Mind up, not your brain.

    The mechanical neural process of making a decision, happens in the BRAIN.
    It hits the MIND a nanosecond later.

    But it's two sides of the same almost-transparent film of gold.

    Even a piece of gold beaten out flat, until it is almost transparent, still has two sides.
    Thus it is, the 'barrier' between what happens in the Brain, and how it manifests in Mind.
    There. But imperceptible, intangible, unseen, unnoticed.... it's there....

    Is how I have come to conclude it.
    I could be wrong.
    I really don't care.
    As I said, I really have more pressing issues to consider. Now. In this Moment. Present Moment, Wonderful moment.

    (Who said that? Someone before me, I am sure....)

    lobster
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    Another video from Adyashanti, which I saw today:

    What are your views regarding the above video?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 23

    @misecmisc1 - given our comments to you previously here, and in the new thread you have begun (yes, yet ANOTHER thread where you seek answers to matters that really don't need any!) - what are YOUR views regarding the above video?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    He's telling you basically exactly what we have been trying to tell you for a long, long time, already.
    You'll pay as much attention to him, doubtless, as you have to us.

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    Oh I don't know Fede, it's a man in the video after all......

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Kundo said:
    Oh I don't know Fede, it's a man in the video after all......

    I really don’t think it makes any difference...

  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Bunks said:

    @Kundo said:
    Oh I don't know Fede, it's a man in the video after all......

    I really don’t think it makes any difference...

    Go back through some threads and you'll see there is/was a marked difference in OP's response to women on a number of topics. Anyway, I was trying (and failing) to stay civil in this thread, but I'm only human ?‍♀️?‍♀️?‍♀️

  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran

    @Kundo said:

    @Bunks said:

    @Kundo said:
    Oh I don't know Fede, it's a man in the video after all......

    I really don’t think it makes any difference...

    Go back through some threads and you'll see there is/was a marked difference in OP's response to women on a number of topics. Anyway, I was trying (and failing) to stay civil in this thread, but I'm only human ?‍♀️?‍♀️?‍♀️

    Ok, I understand. I was looking at it more from the fact the OP doesn't seem to take the advice of anyone male or female. Maybe I was mistaken.

    Kundo
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @misecmisc1 ...Buddhism only helps those who (are prepared to) help themselves...

    When it comes to Dharma practice.... There's no such thing as a free lunch

    ~"The proof of the Curry/Dharma is 'always in its eating/practice"~ but one has to sing/practice for one's supper/the experience @misecmisc1

    Take it or leave it...It's up to you @misecmisc1 ...It would seem that all the links you have posted are ( in a roundabout way ) saying the same thing...

    "Ehipassiko" See for your "self"...

    Bunks
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    That @misecmisc1 posted about this video means that there is something there that touched him. I’d say examine yourself and see what it was, rather than stumbling about in the dark with the replies of a bunch of forum replies.

    It’s not a bad thing to bring your questions to the forum but you should at least do some minimal work on yourself to find out what those questions really are.

    person
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think the void Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:
    Another video from Adyashanti, which I saw today:

    What are your views regarding the above video?

    I think in regards to your practice as a step in the right direction, in meditation you need to learn to set aside all the mental work of figuring it out and making sure you're doing it right. Instead take his advice and just come into being present and aware of what is going on in the moment. What does it feel like in your body? Does your back hurt? Is the pain sharp or dull, hot or cold? What does it feel like in your stomach? Your chest? Don't worry about coming up with the right answer or word, that is just more thinking. Become familiar with the feelings and sensations rather than the labels and strategies.

    misecmisc1
  • LionduckLionduck Veteran

    I think I prefer the term "Acceptance". Being aware and accepting my feelings, my thoughts, my circumstance of the moment. A paraphrase from The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin (sorry, I do not have the exact pargraph and page at the moment) :
    Suffer what must be suffered, enjoy what ther is to enjoy. Take both suffering and joy as facts of life...
    and do not forsake your Buddhist practice. Indeed, do not surrender to the suffering and do not take your joy or good fortune for granted. Appreciate both suffering and joy. Accept the for what they are but do not surrender to them. they all become tools for your, my, our growth and awakening.

    Peace to all

    Bunksmisecmisc1
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