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Eliminating the Desire for Sex: Laypersons
I am a former alcoholic and drug abuser and and as a result have educated myself quite a bit on compulsive behaviors. I have learned that a prolonged period of abstinence from an addictive substance allows neural connections to become dormant, thus alleviating the addiction. Most former addicts will say that this seems to happen after about three to four years. Recovery initially requires daily vigilance, but the desire for the object of addiction does eventually wane. Now to the point...
It seems that the same process would probably work for the desire for sex. In other words, if one could achieve total abstinence from all forms of sexual gratification for a few years, then the desire could be extinguished. My question is, is this worth doing for a lay person? If so, why don't we hear more about celibate laypeople? Thanks in advance for your replies.
It seems that the same process would probably work for the desire for sex. In other words, if one could achieve total abstinence from all forms of sexual gratification for a few years, then the desire could be extinguished. My question is, is this worth doing for a lay person? If so, why don't we hear more about celibate laypeople? Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Sex is something we abstain from.
Drugs and alcohol are things we give up.
There's a difference.
Anyway, as a layperson, what makes you think you have to give up sex?
I understand that I don't have to give up sex (or anything else), I just wonder if it would help a layperson's practice in the same way it ostensibly helps a monastic's practice. Aren't the desire for sex and its concomitant problems obstacles on the path?
Not the desire itself.
Presumably for good reason. Would said good reason not apply to laypeople? Why or why not?
:smilec:
I guess that I will not be aspiring for the whole path in this carnation. My mind/body leads to sex and far be it from me to get in it's way. If I am ever reincarnated as a non-sexual entity I may be ready for the whole path.
I've been celibate by choice for about 7 years. My desire for sex has lessened more and more as the years roll by and it now barely plays a role at all in my life.
But even when I was sexually active I think I was actually looking for intimacy more than sexual gratification, and sex, when I look back on it, doesn't seem to have been all that important in general to me. So maybe I'm one of those people who just isn't all that sexual.
I'm afraid I can't answer your question though because I've only been studying and practicing Buddhism for the last 4 years or so. I don't know what a practice is like while being sexually active.
But I can tell you that I'm certainly never going to give up my celibacy under any circumstances because romantic/sexual relationships are not at all what I'm looking for. I'm only looking for a way through all this suffering, not a way back to it.
Don't know if this helps, probably not. Just thought I'd add my two cents.
No.
Because for them, it's a choice, not an obligation.
I've been celibate by choice for about 22 years. I came naturally to me all of a sudden at a certain time. It is nothing I have ever struggled with so I do not have any experience regarding having to endure & work with sexual desire. But if one can feel this way about it, it is freedom, relief & peace.
Kind regards
[Correct me if I am wrong] The hindrance called sensual desire is named kama chanda. In the vinaya, chanda is what you have to do if you cannot attend a meeting of the community of monks and want to give your approval to something, you give your chanda to go ahead in your absense (it is your consent, agreement, approval).
As long as you give approval to the sensory world to be in your conciousness, including the desire for sex, it will be kama chanda. The aim of laity is not necessarily enlightenment, though, just wanting to move on to a better place is good enough, at least you are making improvements in your life.
Most modern Buddhist teachers did this.
Just as many lay people are celibate, many monks & nuns disrobe and return to a sexual life.
I have been celibate for 30 years. There is a lot to be gained but there is a lot left behind. I am not sure that we ever become 100% free of desire. However our motivations and interests undergo significant modifacation. It takes a lot of time to maintain a relationship and some will find that that time is best used for spiritual practice.
grackle
However, considering how much I enjoy sex I don't want to give it up if there's nothing to be gained. I am thinking that the gains would be significant because my desire is strong.
For clergy and monks, celibacy allows them to step outside of sexual and paired relationships and enter into a life devoted to community, prayer and service.
For laypeople it can get a little more tricky. Everyone has different levels of sexual desire. For each person this level will vary as well. If someone cuts themselves off from their own humanity in a puritanical or fearful way, this too can lead to suffering.
If a layperson chooses celibacy and is comfortable with the choice at all levels of their existence then that is fine as well.
I don't think that's my motivation. I don't think sex is wrong, but it is an act done (in my case) purely for pleasure and it causes a lot of problems. In this way it is very much like drugs and alcohol. My life is much better without intoxicants, and I wonder if giving up sex would bring improvement as well.
I'm male and when I was in my teens and early twenties, I just couldn't stop thinking about sex. I fought it, tried to control it, but that only made it worse. I was fighting nature, it felt like. Now I'm close to being 30 and the desire, while strong at times, is nowhere as intense as it used to be.
Sexuality is not really part of our 'humanity'. Sexuality is psycho-biological drive or pressure.
Our humanity is our reflective mind or wisdom. Our humanity is our compassion. Our humanity manages our sexuality and guides it to be used in skilful ways. Or our humanity abstains from sexuality when appropriate.
Kind regards
You can only try and see how it goes. A break may be good to clear up your perspectives on the matter.
When one perceives something is causing problems, then naturally one gives it up. This is self-compassion.
If one enjoys sex, as an act purely for pleasure, it will cause problems, just like drugs and alcohol. When we first used drugs and alcohol, it was purely for pleasure but side-effects then occurred. Sex is the same. Similarly, the Buddha taught being motivated by lust (for pleasure) is unskilful and leads to problems.
But if one enjoys sex, using it more skilfully is the key.
Kind regards
DD :smilec:
Yes, it can cause problems not of your own making, but for most people you're not really suffering are you, c'mon now, you're not.
But that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the suffering that comes with romantic relationships. I'm sure we can all agree that romantic love can be excruciating in many, many ways. As excruciating as it can be exciting and wonderful and joyous and freeing and so on.
The way I see it is that I can find all those positive things in my own life and spiritual practice without having to have all the negatives that come with a romantic relationship. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm in a romantic relationship there's so much ego stuff going on all the time and there's either drama or the potential for drama and I'm just not a drama kind of girl. I'm so tired of the roller coaster of emotions in romantic relationships in their early stages. I'm tired of being thrown here and there, always being unsure of one thing or another. I hate gambling too, incidentally.
Even if I did stick it out until the relationship matured and things calmed down I'd be expected to marry and have children and all of a sudden I'm headed down the exact path I didn't want to take, expected to fulfill a role for which I'm never going to be suited, until one day I wake up to find I've got a husband and children and I don't know where the years have gone, certainly not in developing spiritually, and I realize I'm utterly trapped and I can't get out and I don't like my children and don't even get me started on my husband and I'm finding it hard to breath and...:eek:
(Did I just say all that out loud...?)
That fine by me, Brigid. To each their own, so long as you're sure you're on the right track and happy and such.
I can relate to the fact that a lot of discomfort arises and hurt feeling, unfortunately I really draw the line when people start saying they're suffering and such. No matter what relationship you're in, I'm sure many people come to the realization somewhere along the line, that someone you really rely on is just not that into you. Even so, you accept that everyone has needs and it's more than being important and paid attention. You still care, near enough no matter what. It's also being responsible and taking the burden. Can you really call that suffering though? I really can't see a route that is neither uncomfortable or attachment free. That's life.
Anyway, more generally, what I was getting at is that there is so much importance and focus placed upon sex but at the end of the day it's quite a low level need. It only seems more important when more pressing needs like food, shelter and warmth are fulfilled and GRANTED.
If you got a sex drive then do something about it, if you don't then that's fine too. Yes, it's all been blown out of proportion, lets get some perspective on life. Don't attack it like a dangerous animal, treat it gently and make peace with yourself. Hehe, did that make any sense?
Have you ever actually met someone who has been through a divorce or the break-up of a long-term relationship? Dismissing the pain caused by romantic relationships as mere discomfort is ignorant.
The suffering associated with sex isn't a result solely of the act itself. Even so-called casual sex can cause emotional disturbance among the participants. We know what areas of the brain are effected (the same ones that promote bonding and depression, interestingly enough).
Wasn't the Republic of Oceania trying this around the time of Winston Smith's execution?
But in all seriousness, what's the point? There wouldn't be any celibate monks or anyone for that matter were it not for us brave laypeople who selflessly put aside heavenly pursuits in favor of our baser, biological drives.
To answer your question, no, the desire would not go away with time. If anything, I'd bet money that you'd go insane long before it ever went away.
Being celibate helps your practice than being sexually active. I have been in both sides so I can tell the difference. When you are sexually active it arouses your desires for physical and associated mental satisfactions that it sometimes disturbs your practice. I am not saying you have to be celibate to meditate; I am only saying that celibacy makes it so much easier, at least for me.
But one should not force oneself to become celibate. If you do that then it will only teach you endurance and the self imposed restriction will frustrate you and make your practice even harder than before. You can gradually reduce your sexual desires by various practices in Buddhism and trust me when you concentrate on those practices, the desires to play around with a human body reduces naturally. It's a very comfortable, natural process.
There are lot of benefits I gained by this.
1) I don't waste time looking at porn, having sex etc
2) A lot of relationship related problems are no longer there. You know things like "Why didn't you call me... is it that necessary to go to this meditation retreat ?" etc
3) It made it easier for me to practice loving kindness for others and respect everyone as brother and sisters. When I see a really sexually arousing image, I can comfortably feel compassion and goodwill towards the person in the image in contrast to how the image is intended to make you feel.
4) Most importantly, one major hindrance to meditation can be greatly reduced if not completely eliminated, which is sexual fantasy. It is said that we sometimes consume many hours fantasizing about things related to sensory desires. Number one in the list is sexual fantasy.
I am sure anyone can argue that you can do all of the above while still being sexually active with a loving faithful partner. I agree. But it is easier for me while being celibate. For me, sex is not a necessary act nor a natural human need which cannot or need not be given up.
So if there is no attachment to the desire for sex then I think staying away from sex should not be really hard right? Sex is not something that just happen. We initiate it. So why do we initiate it if we are not attached to it's desires? If we don't feel the need to satisfy ourselves with sex, why do we have sex?
Please don't think I am trying to put anyone down here. I have nothing against anyone having sex as such but I think we are coming up with all these explanations that "sex is a natural need", "sex is part of humanity" etc just because it is so hard for us to give up. Face it, we are attached to it. It's a defilement; a sensory desire we are attached to
I disagree. Sensory desires can be eliminated.That is part of what enlightenment is, the reason why we practice meditation as Buddhists. There are human beings in this day and age who have reached such levels through meditative practice so we have living proof that desires can be eliminated including sexual desire
I once read in a book that the monk Ajhan Char (who is believed to be enlightened) has said that his greatest obstacle to meditation as a young monk was sexual fantasies. He would spend many hours alone in his corner of the monastery or under a tree trying to subside his growing need for sexual satisfaction. So getting sexual desires is natural but that doesn't mean it cannot be eliminated.
we, like all sentient being are here now because of our parents participating in reproduction, and then sustaining us with food, water, shelter, etc, until we then sustain ourselves with the same.
It seems as humans we differ from other sentient beings in that we attach great emotion to the most basic of 'natural acts'. Sex for an animal is usually an annual requirement as much as is eating and drinking to sustain life or reproduce it. To continue the species... (a bit darwinian i know, sorry)
But humans, we have attached emotion to every 'natural act' i can bring to mind, including sex. Food for instance, food has great emotional attachment for many people, we can 'over indulge in the pleasure of foods' just as we can in sex, thinking about our next meal all day. The requirement of the food is to sustain us, not to pleasure us. To counter this distraction, that may be how fasting came about? abstaining food as it were...
Now forgive me here, but to analyse the extent of our human emotional attachment to natural things, think about the act of excretion. Just as natural as any other act, yet the emotions of disgust and sickening are profound in humans. So we in a sense hide it from all other, the unspoken act..
My question is, just how many things do we need go on 'abstaining' to remove distraction to allow us to follow the path.. it seems it would be easier to follow the path as an animal.. which from the limited reading i've done, is a realm of existance below humans? (maybe i should post this as a new question?)
it just seems animals are free from all distractions we attach to these natural acts, free also from the deep ego and thought of self that we have. altruism for all of its species seems to
be the nature of a normally functioning animal. Are animals enlightened? sorry, i just enjoy questioning things and thinking about them, hence the long reply!
thanks
But that would apply to any relationship irrespective of sexual content. Well, I do agree that sensitivity is a big issue. I mean you could argue that one person is being too sensitive as opposed to another being too insensitive. I get the impression it's a bit of a hot topic, so I'll definitely tread carefully and button up on this one. I don't think I'm hard hearted- that makes me
It hardly seems likely that it's something we can really grow out of now. Food and Sex are pretty tolerable, but yes do tend to cause a massive fuss. But we are sort of like animals, with brains that serve what we deem base, but are they really base or is that wishful thinking? I think it says a lot about how we potentially feel about animal related pursuits, but anyway that's a bit off toopic. Create a new one!
As far as I know, animals are far from being enlightened. In fact, enlightenment is a mental state that can be achieved by beings born in realms above or same as the human realm. Animals do not have the strength to think and reason out things. Their intellect is in a primitive level thus they are not in a position to be enlightened.
Enlightenment is, from what I have read and understood so far is, in fact a self destructive mechanism. The worldings who have realized that the round of continuous births, sickness, death is suffering try to put an end to the round by detaching themselves from the attachments that bind them to this round. The attachments here are not just sexual desires, desires for food but hard coded defilements that we just cannot detach from by mere reasoning, like the attachment to a concept of selfhood. Just by reasoning that we are "non-self, suffering and impermanent" we don't get enlightened. The real nature of "non-self" should be experienced in deep meditation. It is then that the ground rules that bind us to "samsara" get shattered and the worlding attains enlightenment. This is why we all sit in meditation as Buddhists. Because we need to destroy every hard coded defilement so that when we die, there will be no consciousness left whatsoever which will be the seed for another life form in any realm.
Thus your question, "just how many things do we need go on 'abstaining' to remove distraction to allow us to follow the path" - well, all I know is, whatever way you follow the path, if the end result you seek is enlightenment then you ultimately will have to demolish every defilement.
That doesn't mean enlightened beings do not eat. They eat but they don't crave for food. They would eat enough to maintain the body and would eat what is offered to them. They don't have sex because they don't feel the need to be sexually entertained. They love and selflessly help others but if a person dies, they won't cry or feel sad about it. They feel physical pain but the portion of mental suffering has been eliminated. They can face death at any time because they have long before abandoned the need for living. They are probably the happiest beings because they don't have any "needs" to be fulfilled. That's what I have read ...
i have been celibate for a few months now. i wouldnt say its entirely voluntary-- if sexual practice came easily and naturally to me, i would still be riding that wave without a care. but for the past two months, i have decided to make it voluntary: to stop masturbating and looking at porn, to stop categorizing women by their sexual desirability and discussing that with my male friends, to stop pining for a partner to satisfy my egos inadequacies...
i dont think i will be celibate for the rest of my life. in my current incarnation, its more important that i come to terms with my sexuality than that i displace it. this practice is part of that learning process.
im firmly on this path for now, and i have a problem. i hope this request doesnt sound like a joke.
i often (a few times a week) have trouble sleeping because i am aroused all night long. its not that i have many sexual dreams, but i literally roll over on my erection and wake myself up. i am charged with sexual adrenaline that makes it hard to fall asleep. i never have this problem during the day. i never have nocturnal emissions (i have had one in my life).
i would like to hear suggestions on how to overcome this problem. perhaps particular meditation techniques, or something else.
i sit, walk, and/or repose in meditation nearly every day, and i practice hatha yoga 20-90 minutes every day. during meditation, i often find myself thinking about past sexual relationships, but rarely about lust or arousal itself. telling me to masturbate and relieve myself is not helpful. obviously i have considered that already.
thanks for giggling. i await your wise responses.
I used to have the same opinion regarding cocaine and alcohol. Sex and eating may be "natural", but they act on the brain in the same way drugs do.
What specific practices did you use, Deshy? The benefits you enumerated are exactly what I am hoping to achieve.
I am not projecting. When I stated that people have differing levels of sexual desire that includes people who have no sexual desire.
There are many ways, I will tell you what I did but I also encourage you to read more on this and find out various other practices if there are any. I hope you already know that this is not a transformation that will happen overnight so please don't give up or feel discouraged in case you feel like one practice is not working for you. When you keep at it, gradually and very comfortably you will realize that having sex is a rather dumb thing to do lol
1) see the reality of the human body. Let's look at it from the outside first.
Image you didn't bathe for three days in a row but worked in the garden. How do you think you would smell after that ... Sexual desire is just another perception we have. We have taken the body as a desirable thing whereas the reality is, it is subjected to decaying, fading and which is also very repulsive in reality. It cannot even stand two days without washing before it becomes an object you cannot fantasize about.
Concentrate on the inside now.
One day a friend of mine asked me to go to the hospital with him and check out the way medical students perform tests on dead human bodies. I suggest if you can accommodate such a thing, please go and see the reality of our bodies. At least check it out in the web but I strongly suggest you go and see for real. The inside of a human body is really repulsive. The way the veins are, human organs, digestion system, the repulsive smells that come from blood and other substances... In fact all this is just covered by a thin layer of skin and then we go WOW! I can't help but think what a scam...
It is a Buddhist meditation practice followed by monks to meditate by concentrating on the repulsiveness of a dead body.
2) Stay away from porn. Make an effort if needed because it only pollutes you like drugs. I didn't even have to make an effort when I practiced number 1 for some time I naturally stayed away from porn.
3) This is the most important step; the turning point for me. When you see a person you feel sexually attracted to, imagine them as your brother, sister, son, daughter, mother or father. Just imagine for a minute. Imagine... What if they were ... Your lust will fade away like snow. They are human beings who should be respected and that feeling of dignity makes it hard to look at them in a sexual way.
They might even have been your own daughter/son in some past life. Lust is a low level feeling;try and replace it with loving compassion which has nothing to do with physical attraction. In fact, if you really love someone the last thing you do with them is having sex with them. Face it, sex is not a loving thing. It's animalistic ...
4) Another important step. Do the metha meditation (Loving kindness meditation). I hope you know how to do it. Change the verses as you want; it doesn't matter. So far we practiced to look at the body as repulsive. Now feel compassion for the repulsiveness. We are all beings trapped in repulsive bodies. May all beings feel comfort, not get sick, not feel any pain, sadness, may they all attain nibbana, the ultimate release from suffering. May they all be lust free ... May we all look at each other with loving compassion only ... so on
5) Look at the images of an old person who has been a beauty in her young days/handsome in his young days. See the way beauty has decade. Compare the difference. Same is going to happen to the object of your sexual desire one day.
Then, if you can only, check out the stages of a dead body decay. I only saw in pictures. If not imagine it. Anyway we already know... So, don't waste your time and energy on something that is not only impermanent but also will not benefit anyone anyway.
Instead put your time and energy on something which is better like meditation, helping the old, volunteer service, charity. It is impermanent too but as Buddhists we believe in rebirth. You are gathering some good karma which will help you become a better person more closer to Dhamma in your next life. Wish for the ultimate goal: enlightenment. Develop your mind for the goal you try to achieve.
This practice not only reduce your sexual desire but reduce your anger, fears, anxieties, depressions, sadness. It makes you happy.
I think I'm going to start the practices suggested and see where it leads.
Good luck Lyssa