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friendship is the focus
Hello all! I'm new here and I'm finding this site to be very helpful. Thank you...
In a nutshell, I believe that I'm being open to whatever/whomever may cross my path in this life, and I'm into learning from whatever it is these experiences have to teach me. I personally struggle with sexual lust and illusions of character....quite a bit. One seems to cause the other, actually.
I haven't acted on any of the above mentioned feelings, nor have I wasted (much) precious time or precious presence on daydreaming the days away. I'm happy with this.
In fact, I seldom get crushes on people these days. I'm too aware of my past tendancy to jump right in and get caught up in a sexual whirlwind...and I'm very cautious to not go back to doing that. And actually, it takes alot more than it used to (mentally/emotionally/spiritually) for me to REALLY find someone attractive these days..
My point? I'm married to a man whom is emotionally withholding and it hurts. As the years go by my love for him grows, but so does my want/need for emotional expression. In fact, as I get to know myself better, I see how a relationship (for me) feels hollow without someone who is joyful/grateful/simple/expressive.
I'm finding that I would like a partner who is seeking genuine meaning to life beyond the diamond ring and four bedroom colonial....
I have met someone that I barely know, who is very psychologically minded and buddhist himself. I have just been open to whatever arises, and I can honestly say that it is what he stands for and how he lives his life that I find attractive. Although some sexual lust is arising, it doesn't feel addictive or clingy. I could let this new friendship go out of my life tomorrow, and truly feel thankful for lessons learned and the opportunity to have known him.
Do you think it's wise to move forward with this friendship? I am trying to be as honest and aware as possible, and I feel that knowing him even just casually has really opened up some doors for me. Just his presence in my life has forced me to take another honest look at what is lacking in my marriage and how much it hurts.
Also, any tips on how to stay focused on the friendship vs the lust? Or rather, any tips on how to manage the two together with friendship being my intent?
Thank you,
A
In a nutshell, I believe that I'm being open to whatever/whomever may cross my path in this life, and I'm into learning from whatever it is these experiences have to teach me. I personally struggle with sexual lust and illusions of character....quite a bit. One seems to cause the other, actually.
I haven't acted on any of the above mentioned feelings, nor have I wasted (much) precious time or precious presence on daydreaming the days away. I'm happy with this.
In fact, I seldom get crushes on people these days. I'm too aware of my past tendancy to jump right in and get caught up in a sexual whirlwind...and I'm very cautious to not go back to doing that. And actually, it takes alot more than it used to (mentally/emotionally/spiritually) for me to REALLY find someone attractive these days..
My point? I'm married to a man whom is emotionally withholding and it hurts. As the years go by my love for him grows, but so does my want/need for emotional expression. In fact, as I get to know myself better, I see how a relationship (for me) feels hollow without someone who is joyful/grateful/simple/expressive.
I'm finding that I would like a partner who is seeking genuine meaning to life beyond the diamond ring and four bedroom colonial....
I have met someone that I barely know, who is very psychologically minded and buddhist himself. I have just been open to whatever arises, and I can honestly say that it is what he stands for and how he lives his life that I find attractive. Although some sexual lust is arising, it doesn't feel addictive or clingy. I could let this new friendship go out of my life tomorrow, and truly feel thankful for lessons learned and the opportunity to have known him.
Do you think it's wise to move forward with this friendship? I am trying to be as honest and aware as possible, and I feel that knowing him even just casually has really opened up some doors for me. Just his presence in my life has forced me to take another honest look at what is lacking in my marriage and how much it hurts.
Also, any tips on how to stay focused on the friendship vs the lust? Or rather, any tips on how to manage the two together with friendship being my intent?
Thank you,
A
0
Comments
about not letting lust get the better hand, i would just try to stay motivated by love, and just meditate as much as you can and as much as you feel like it. peace is inside of you, just keep doing what you believe is best at finding it, and just keep following your heart, love will always manifest itself.
but also, try not to give up on your husband, things are always salvagable. the good bodhisattva is very skillfull!
It is rarely what is lacking and more often what is desired that causes the suffering.
I think it is more wise to reach an understanding in your current relationship.
I know that I have much to learn, but things seem to contradict here
Thanks for your time,
A
...and to add to that, they make healthy choices. You know the old saying? "If you're hiding something, than it's probably not a good thing" Ahhh, my kindergarten teacher..
So is the key word here to "act" rather than stay stuck, in limbo, tortured by choices? And/or just keep flowing along, letting the truth reveal itself in it's own time...all the while making good/honest choices. Staying non attached to the outcome is sooo the way to go. As soon as I remember to do this, I literally feel relief instantly.
I need to keep looking at where I'm settling and where I'm fantasizing.
Still, if we are to find happiness within, regardless of our surroundings and circumstances ... why would anyone ever choose to leave a relationship or job? Wouldn't we just stay where we have already invested ourselves? Unless of course things were abusive or severely dysfunctional in some way. It seems contradicting to me to "find happiness within" and then not apply it to outside circumstances as well. Am I undertanding it right? Trying not be be black and white about it, but I'm just not seeing the bridge between the two here.
Is it to just find what is most "happy" or "acceptable" or "growth oriented" in your own heart, and THEN apply it to your outside surroundings?? But even then it sounds as though any type of life change within our hearts shouldn't ever be 'expected' to be understood or applied.....So then back to my conundrum, how to bridge the two?
What is the difference between expectation and finding a mate with some hint of qualities one feels are important? Otherwise, unless abusive, wouldn't we just stay put and treat our emotional needs as pesky 'desires'.... Hmmm, I hope I'm not confusing you guys, lol. I want to know though
K
I don’t see any problem with your new friendship; accept that you believe that sex has to be a part of it.
No one person can fill all of our needs. So we have friends, end of story.
Investigate yourself and see why sex has to be a part of this friendship, and also why you are unhappy. It maybe that jumping into a new relationship will not be a real solution to what is actually bothering you, deep down.
Love yourself and then share what you have. Do not search, broken, for someone to fill this up. It won’t work.
Have you talked to your husband about your feelings that your relationship is not working?
Warm regards,
S9
It's far too much to get into on a forum. I will say that the following IS true "when we meet someone, we are looking to them to make us happy" I have read and experienced this time and time again. I'm aware of it now, and I'm noticing how and when I still do it. Will anyone really ever totally rid themselves of this behavior? Or will we simply just keep aware and honest with ourselves about it? I for one feel the latter is best for me. I'm getting the feeling on this forum that the first statement is what's "expected" of me.
I am broken, who isn't? Or rather, I'd say, I'm striving for wholeness, despite my woundedness. The only thing i'm searching for is to understand what my motives are...mingled in with the occasional battles of lust/greed/vanity. Otherwise, I'm staying put and not generating any bad karma.
My husband knows most everything about me. We are very open ad honest with each other. I love it. We agree to just keep going together, honestly and openly.
I'm starting to see that I am the only one who can answer this! I will just continue making right and honest choices, in the meanwhile letting the truth continue to reveal itself.
*Ding* lightbulb just went on! In my heart, I can't go wrong if I remain honest and truthful with myself and others.
I am still open to advice however, if any.
Thank you all
A
The difference is that you set goals, but you don't expect the goals to make you happy. You vacuum your rugs because they're dirty, not because vacuuming your rugs somehow confirms you as a good person. Do you see the difference?
So then I wonder, what are feelings/thoughts/motivations to mate with someone called?? What drives an aware person in thought/action to mate/love another??
A
A
Or am I misunderstanding the word "unhappy"...because to me unhappy doesn't mean dead end or failure...anymore. It's a sign to me now that I need to just notice, and it doesn't always include the need to change something.
Unhappy to me is a fleeting feeling, one that is quicky replaced with a bazillion others
BTW, I like your avatar...a wolf in sheeps clothing? Lol...
A
Peace be with you my friend and welcome to the site.
Let me try to save you some trouble figuring this out, if I can.
Absolutely no one, and nothing, is going to make you happy, things are temporary or impermanent. If you don’t own it yet, you will suffer for not owning it. If you believe that you do own it, you will suffer out of fear of losing it. So, what is one to do?
What I believe you are actually feeling is what you perceive as the emptiness of Samsara, (although you may not be calling it that, yet) and also the accompanying feelings of separation that go with it.
This cannot be filled with more, and even more, because there is no real emptiness. This cannot be remedied by holding tighter, and even more tightly, because there is no real separation. But you can eventually see through these phantoms of the imagination by the use of your vigilant attention and understanding.
No doubt these imaginings hurt you, and leave you longing for more/closeness. But, because they are not real, someday these will just melt away and you will be free of them. This IS Liberation (AKA Realization).
So, stay awhile and grow into closeness with your husband, until one fine day you realize you never were separate.
That after all is the promise of True Love, you will become as Oneor understand that you never wre separate.
Peace,
S9
S-9, you said..
What I believe you are actually feeling is what you perceive as the emptiness of Samsara, (although you may not be calling it that, yet) and also the accompanying feelings of separation that go with it.
I have read of Samsara, awhile back, and I believe it's the suffering we all feel from the cycle of rebirth over and over again. I'm not sure though, I will google it! I also have some Hindu beliefs that are woven into my belief system, I think that's where I first came across the word samsara.
Pietro, you said
nothing that is impermanent can make you permanently happy, but they can still make you happy while they exist in harmony with you.
Agreed! and for the most part, I am happy and loving him regardless of the circumstance. It's beautiful...
Then you said
if she is unable to open up her husband and bring love back into both of them between them, then she needs to search elsewhere for what she needs, if she remains at the stage where she still needs it, where she is not strong enough to face the sufferings and illusions that pour onto her. Then, lol? I can see the word "then" being there... So I will say YES, that is the conundrum, isn't it?? To make sure I really am facing the suffering, and anything that is selfish/an escape/illusion with an accepting heart and clear mind. However, if I continue examining and patiently letting the truth in, how can it be best to continue on in such a relationship? Especially if it is revealed that we have completed our work together, and the marriage is largely based upon fear, material trappings, vanity and co-dependency. This includes his issues as well as mine, to the best of my knowledge.
He knows most everything, and we will keep going with the marriage in truth and honesty. He is not buddhist, nor does he have any compass or real moral code of any kind that he follows. I mean, he follows the law and is responsible, but doesn't really ponder anything in life beyond the material. I can't tell if it's torture or blissful, honestly, lol. I would like to have someone with whom I can share at least some common ground with in relation to life and what I hold dear. He doesn't get me at all, and I'm ok with that now...but I would like to be "known" in this way by my partner.
A
The way that the human mind works is that, it finds impermanence painful. So, in a sense impermanent or temporary happiness isn’t really happiness at/all, but rather pleasure and a part of the pleasure/pain cycle (You can’t have one [pleasure] without the other [pain]).
So, when we say that we want to be Happy, what we are actually saying is that, we want to step out of this pleasure/pain cycle that thus far has been kicking us around. Why? Because, pleasure is constantly changing, or morphing into pain, and is a wholly unreliable companion.
That is why the Buddha CALLED impermanence a form of suffering, which we must go beyond.
There is a Taoist saying, “Everything has its "yes" and its "no".
This indicates that there is always a worm in this apple called pleasure, or temporary happiness, even if somehow it were able to last forever, (Karma).
For instance, when you start eating a big bag of pop corn in the movies, you may think that "you have died and gone to heaven", pleasure takes you up. But, pretty soon your tummy gets over full, (ouch), the pieces that didn’t pop well get caught in your teeth, (more ouch), the salt begins to burn your tongue a little, (small but annoying ouch), the butter gets all over your fingers (figures, last straw ouch!) and so on…pleasure is not just pleasure. That is why the philosophy of hedonism is a disaster, just waiting to happen, and disappointment is ALWAYS nipping at your heels. You just can’t run fast enough to escape what is chasing you.
That is why the Buddha cautioned us, not to put our hopes in that direction.
Warm regards,
S9
I studied many different religions/philosophies besides Buddhism, and found that very often their highest wisdoms overlap. Some say that Buddhism grew out of Hinduism (the crowd groans) and because of this, they shares many similarities in their more psychological understandings as well, way before reaching the highest wisdom that they both offer.
I do seem to mix and match my words between these two, frequently, and for this I apologize. If I confuse you with this, please question me further, as I will take no offence.
Again, please forgive me. : ^ ) It does seem to be a weakness of mine.
Peace,
S9
The whole "christ consciousness" (sp?) thing really resonates with me as well...I'm a spiritual mutt.
no need to apologize, no worries!
i have not gone through life sad all my life, i'm still living samsarically right now, but i am not unhappy at all. things, people, places, everything impermanent has once given me happiness, at least aided in it, at the very least.
it is by way of the five aggregates that liberation is possible. this is completely right, and i was never in disagreement with this, but i still believe that as long as you avoid the attachment involved with finding happiness through (and through is an important word) things impermanent, then there is no problem. the first thing i said was, "nothing that is impermanent can make you permanently happy"
namu amida butsu sorry, i'm a little confused at what's being said here, what are you saying?
i guess it depends on what you want out of the marriage. to me a marriage is a very intimate, loving relationship and i know you feel that way too. it sounds like you guys are just friends at this point. sorry, i haven't read every post in this thread so i don't know exactly how the dicussion's evolved and the details of what's going on, but it looks like there's no reason not to pursue friendship with this other fellow, but sexual misconduct be wary of not to hurt your husband, based on previous marital bonds you have made with each other. keep at it either way. meditate and practice metta, i would say that is the best thing to do when in doubt.
Agreed on no sexual misconduct, the fact that we are just friends, and doing that meditation...which I have never done.
A
Buddha did not say that we could simply disregard suffering, since it was a fairytale, anyway.
He gave the impression that “skills” could be learned, and put a lot of effort into teaching these skills, whereby suffering could come to an end.
So, Samsara is actually created (in our mind) by a lack of both clarity and skill. Samsara is synonymous with mistaken, or mistaken view (more correctly). Nirvana then would not be a place but rather an “unmistaken view,” just beneath the mistaken view, which comes to light by removing the mistake.
So, my friend, what do you think these ripples on the pond are, if they are not mistaken views?
How would you define attachment?
Most people do not go through their lives dripping with sadness. That is why the Buddha spoke of the ‘3 Warning Signs,’ which were a symbolic reminder that we should not becoming to complacent, when things seemed to be going your way, and thereby be setting yourself up to be “hit aside the head” when a crisis appeared in your life. (Panic!) He wanted you to use the good times to grow strong and wise.
What do you mean by, “It is by the 5 aggregates that liberation is possible?” Could you elucidate further? Thanx
Interesting conversation,
S9
What? The "self" that feels dukkha by clinging to what is impermanent is not an illusion in the sense that you're describing. It's a fabrication, but that doesn't mean suffering and impermanence are illusions. Suffering isn't an illusion, it's just not inherent or necessary. Awakening is seeing the reality of impermanence but not clinging to that which is impermanent.
I thought impermanence is an illusion?
In any event, right, that which is impermant isn't bad. It is samsara, the ripples of the pure mind, which is clinging and self-identification, which is dukkha.
Ah, the Realm of the Devas. And they say "rebirth" can't possibly be a metaphor. Finding happiness in impermanent things is not what the Buddha taught, and is still samsara. The Buddha taught happiness from within.
And likewise it is by the aggregates that suffering is possible. The suffering that you seek liberation from. What's your point?
I see you are facing a real (for lack of a better word) "situation" in your personal life & relationship.
I'd like to offer you a "regular" perspective on your problem, and ask you this, do you discuss these matters with your partner? Does he know, and if so, what's his opinion on them??
With regards to your other friendship, I think any friendship should be considered valuable, but as soon as you act & talk in a way around this other person that you would not do if your partner was actually there with you... then I think it's time to indeed reflect on that. At least by the general norms of marriage. It's always a matter of opinion...
Following spirtual guidance offered here by many will very likely help you grow towards a solution, and sometimes, the moment to make a solution just isn't there yet. Growing towards a solution is a very normal thing (imho), the Buddhist philiosophy or religious guidance etc. can of course be a great source of help working to that solution.
Philosophies aside for 1 second, I'd say open dialogue is usually the key for a better part, as you will gain more knowledge and hopefully more insight in the end with that knowledge.
I wish you all the best & hope you find that what you seek in life.
When I meet women, they have only one choice, namely, being my friend.
If he is a practising Buddhist, his mind will not have the issues & conflicts your mind is having.
Real Buddhists have conflicts too.
Real Buddhist isn't synonymous with saint.
S9
Hi S9,
What's the difference?
With kind regards,
Sukhita
I don't really know him well right now anyways, and I have no idea what and how much of anything he practices. I know he is very open with his issues and mistakes made, and he is very laid back. I noticed him right away, he stands out as different.
Alot of my past issues have related to sex/lust/and misuse of power (seduction). I've worked so hard to overcome this, but it is still part of me. It's so cool how life throws you a new set of challenges when the time is right
Hi Hank. Yes I am growing towards a solution, bingo. Call me crazy, but anything could happen really, so I'm not making any plans. The truth is showing up on my doorstep on a regular basis these days, and it is welcome to come inside and stay awhile.
Buddhism is soooooo helpful to me, wow. I feel that if I continue with the honesty, introspection and "right" choices, I can't go wrong. It's freaking genius!
A
Best you speak for your own (Hindu) religion.
Possibly quote the Kama Sutra for us.
:smilec:
A saint is usually thought to be beyond temptation, by the grace of God or something.
A Buddhist is just a person dealing skillfully with these things, at least until he is Liberated.
If he is not yet Liberated, that does not mean that he is not a REAL Buddhist. That is a bit perfectionist, don’t you think?
S9
You have no idea what I practice.
S9
Agree... a saint (a mythical figure, I would say) is often used as a standard of comsarison for matters of moral and spiritual perfection; and a buddhist, generally, until he/she is enlightened is skilfully walking the Path.
So... you didn't REALLY attach any special meaning to the word REAL in the sentence "REAL buddhist isn't synonymous with saint."
Must regretfully confess.. I was kind of just nitpicking
With kind regards,
Sukhita
Plus, where did I use the term 'real Buddhist'?
:smilec:
In fact, many non-Buddhists can abide by the third precept.
:smilec:
I have decided not to answer any questions that I see as the other person arguing, rather than conversing with me in a gentle manner. I see this as a compromise to not writing at all to certain persons. I just don’t enjoy it. Life is too short.
So, if there is anything you really want to talk to me about, and I do not seem to answer it, you will know why I am (rightfully or wrongfully) doing so, and you can reword it, or not.
Personally, I see you as quite intelligent, and worth speaking too in many ways. So, I hope you can see my point.
But, I am at a dead run to answer all of the people I enjoy speaking to. So, you decide what is best for you.
S9
I realize that this question (in my heart) is no longer posing a problem
I am new to this forum and I didn't know how long this post would remain on the front page, lol...I've started going back pages and pages, WOW. Big site.
Thanks for all of the input, but there really isn't an issue any longer. Rather, the issues are much deeper than the original question. Ha! It's been good though, and I clearly have alot of learning left to do.
Carry on with the convo though if you feel, I'm open to whatever comes of it...
Peace, and avoid the mall today if possibe! (friendly warning)
A
I don’t think there is any such thing as a ‘REAL Buddhist.’
It is just a flag some people like to fly, or perhaps some personal standard that they hold other people’s feet to the fire with. : ^ (
So, how could I attach anything to it? Where would I begin?
I was simply answering someone else’s ‘Real Buddhist’ notions.
Even Buddha wasn’t a ‘REAL Buddhist’, was he? He was just himself, b/4 Liberation and after. The problem b/4 being that he had no real idea what that was.
Peace,
S9
I will reiterate again. I said 'practising Buddhist', namely, a Buddhist that abides by the five precepts and practises wise reflection according to the five precepts.
at this very moment i would define attachment as well... i could define it in a number of ways! having a canyon between you and yourself. which means looking through the external world for yourself, but the external world is the same thing as your internal world, though sometimes you have to look in the 'right' direction. don't mind what i say.
and im not shure what i meant when i said that! ha ha ha ha
For someone spitting in the dark, I would say you have a pretty good aim, IMPO. : ^ )
P: The ripples in the mind are…”mistaken views, yes. or just perturbations of the heart to put it more viscerally. but also just sand in the wind. all this life cycling of samsara, even though it's a period of time, time is empty... but yes, mistaken views.
S9: Yes, Samsara is in time, and time is constantly moving, so no wonder there are ripples. But, the pond of Ultimate Consciousness bares no trace of this movement when the ripples stop, or even during these ripples. Ultimate Consciousness remains right Here and Now, yet untouched.
P: At this very moment i would define attachment as well... i could define it in a number of ways! having a canyon between you and yourself. which means looking through the external world for yourself, but the external world is the same thing as your internal world, though sometimes you have to look in the 'right' direction. don't mind what i say.
S9: No this was very good. It is difficult to describe this.
I do think that I, however would remove direction from my description of this same thing, simply because time and space are the same thing, and direction is impossible without movement. So, Ultimate Consciousness is also the Unattached. If things cannot move, they cannot separate, so what need of attachment, if nothing 'Real' is going anywhere? If it is unreal, why hold onto it?
Hope I am making myself understood here.
Thanx for taking a stab at answering this,
S9
Can I ask you to state in more detail what you are referring to here about 'emotional expression'?
Exactly what qualities do you regard are deficient in your husband?
Similarly, exactly what are you refering to here?
What is called 'love' ordinarily can comprise of various emotions that may manifest outwardly as 'lust'. It is normal for lust to occur towards someone you regard as being able to fulfil your higher needs.
As you are skilfully doing, disregard the lust and focus on your higher needs. Maintain the reflective thoughtful inquiry you are doing. You have already learned 'lust' does not always bear sustainable fruit.
This man, whether actually or not, appears to be an embodiment of a higher aspiration in you heart. There is no need to let it go and cause conflict with yourself about 'lust' and some former habitual ways of behaving. Generally, friendship cannot harm.
As I previous probed, this man may not reciprocate your habitual impulsiveness and offer a more measured approach than yourself. So try to be at ease. The ball may not be in your court so let go of that anxiety.
Personally, I think it is wise to nurture this friendship. But remain focused on friendship as you are trying to do. As you are aware, you are married. This friendship may help you with your marriage.
But my opinion is you need to be careful & honest with this man. Does he know you are married?
The Buddha taught marriage requires a number of qualities, namely, honesty (sacca), training in self-improvement (dama), patience/endurance (khanti) & sacrifice/generosity (caga).
The Buddha taught a husband should ideally be sensitive to the needs & conditions of his wife.
So possibly, if you have not, your marriage may require some honest communication on your behalf and some training on your partner's behalf. Often, this is done via marriage counselling.
1. Honesty. How can one be a friend without being honest? Is your new friend aware you are married?
2. Wisdom. You already understand via experience the short-comings and dangers of impulsive lust. Remain thoughtful, considerate & reflective. In Buddhism, this is called mindulfness.
3. Mutuality. Focus on mutual long term goals. Compatibility. Generally, it takes two for relationship, not one.
4. Helpfulness. Gratitude. Life is full of suffering. Try to see relationship as two people helping eachother 'manage' their sufferings together. Focus on 'needs' rather than 'wants'.
Kind regards
DDhatu
My H is aware of and working on his need to feel first, and then express his emotions. We went to therapy for about five months and this topic came up often. Basically, he doesn't talk or comment on most things, and is very much "inside his own head". I'm lonely while in his presence sometimes, and he admits to being a loner. Also, he is not much of a 'feeler', and I've never really seen him be truly moved by anything. This is different from being able to verbally/non verbally express something with words, this is an indifference towards people and their circumstances. He has this "me against the world" mentality. Regardless, there are many other loveable qualities in him that I can see and admire.
This friend of mine is so new, I really do not know him yet. "whatever arises" means that I am open to whatever lessons/thoughts/feelings may come my way. I'm open to noticing them and then applying it to my life/value system. I'm open to challenging my system (I think
Yes, I "hope" that he will have a more measured approach, lol. That's part of the appeal. I want to be that way, and it would be cool to see it in action. I find most men are too eager to let lust take over. I'm intrigued with a man who knows how it can damage, and is into controlling it. How rare. I respect that. I want more frinds like that.
He knows that I'm married! I would never lie about that. We are getting to know each other veeery slooowly. It's nice. I think knowing him will help me, and thus my marriage. There has already been several times, just with his silence, that I noticed I was doing something...competitive/critical/desperate. It was cool!
thank you so much for your thoughtful response.
A