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Mahayana vs Theravada bodhi
shanyin
Novice YoginSault Ontario Veteran
Hello. I have read that Mahayana school; considers it enlightenment or awakening when one realizes wisdom in "emptiness" but I think I have become aware that they still accept the view of the four stages of enlightenment.
When a Bodhisattva takes the vow to become enlightened... does he take a vow to become an arahat; or wisdom in emptiness.
Sorry if I confuse anyone.
When a Bodhisattva takes the vow to become enlightened... does he take a vow to become an arahat; or wisdom in emptiness.
Sorry if I confuse anyone.
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I have been told this corresponds to Mahamudra in the Vajrayana by folk who have practiced in both streams, but do not know this first hand.
However, as I understand it an ahrat is also known as a "foe destroyer", in which the individual has completely rid them selves of their defilement's and so forth. So I think that in agreement with the various Bodhisattva levels, one would usually have to attain arhatship initially, although one may be able to achieve this through the wisdom that realizes emptiness.
Then again I could be way off
Whereas the Mahayana Buddhist's goal of practice , nirvana means to be awaken to the true nature of phenomena , manifesting the life state of Buddhahood ( Buddha wisdom and liberation ) , and enjoying nirvana while repeating in the cycle of birth and death. Since both of them are of non-duality ( emptiness ) , manifested from the same source of unchanging reality/truth
Hence the Great Teacher Tientai wrote in his ' Great Concentration and Insight' states ' The ignorance and dust of desires are enlightenment, and the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana "
Hi ansanna
With respect, here you are not speaking what is truthful.
The goal of practise as taught by the Buddha in the Nikayas is NOT annihilationism.
In fact, the contrary is the case.
Annihilationst views are taught: as one extreme to be abandoned.
They're opposed to eternalist views: another extreme to be abandoned.
However, the goal of practise in the Buddha's teaching is the end of suffering.
The end of suffering is synonymous with seeing things as they really are.
Please do not misrepresent the Buddha, friend.
Within the Buddha Dharma - hence the notion of 84,000 dharma gates and outside of Buddha Dharma - it recognise the saints and sages of Greek, Chinese, Indian & other lands as pratyekabuddha , as preparation the human mind for future higher teaching before the Buddha advent.
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This is the concepts of the earlier schools , basically their view is divided as<O:p></O:p>
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1) Considered that nirvana-without-remainder always follows nirvana-with-remainder (buddhas first achieve enlightenment and then, at 'death', mahaparinirvana) and that nirvana-without-remainder is final.<O:p</O:p
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2) The other camp of earlier school such as Mahasanghika, consider that nirvana-without-remainder is always followed by nirvana-with-remainder – the state of attainment of the arhat is not final, and is eventually succeeded by the state of buddhahod or total Awakening. - Mahayana generally adopts as the heir of this school of thoughts .<O:p</O:p
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The above arguement have been reflected in many of treatises of ancient Indian Mahayana Buddhist scholar monks and sages (bodhisattva ), we cannnot white wash or not respecting this part of buddhist history
That's one interpretation some Theravadins have of the term anupadises-nibbana-dhatu (nibbana element with no fuel remaining) in Iti 44 — as well as the line, "With the cessation of consciousness each is here brought to an end" from DN 11 — but that's certainly not how it's understood by all Theravadins.
In The Mind Like Fire Unbound, for example, Thanissaro Bhikkhu writes that, "This experience of the goal — absolutely unlimited freedom, beyond classification and exclusive of all else — is termed the elemental nibbana property with no 'fuel' remaining (anupadisesa-nibbana-dhatu)."
He also points to the term vinnanam-anidassanam (consciousness without feature) in DN 11, and notes that this consciousness, not "partaking the allness of the all," doesn't come under the aggregate of consciousness because it stands outside of space and time. As such, it is a type of awareness that is "not harmed by death."
So while some Theravadins describe nibbana as the end of all consciousness, stressing the cessation aspect of nibbana, others describe nibbana as a state of purified awareness and stress its transcendent aspect.
yikes!. Hello Brahman! When Theravadins, who so often hang on the authority of the Pali Canon, come across something patently eternalistic like this. Do you try and square it? or just defer? :eek:
Usually we just have endless debates about the nuances of Pali and whether the Abhidhamma Pitaka and its commentaries are as authoritative as the Sutta Pitaka.
Hi Richard, when you said that your view came from Mahayana perspective , you are in this side of the camp, the remainder is derive from your Bodhi-cita or Bodhisattva vows to practice for oneself and practice to save the rest of suffering beings
As the Mahayana lotus sutra clearly state the teacher Shakyamuni Buddha is always here preaching the Dharma , his Buddha field is none other then this saha world.
So if the teacher is still working hard to preach the Dharma, how possible his disciples can annihilating to ashes and forgo the other suffering beings ?
However. Ultimately the choice to "stay" or "go" is neither here nor there. The choice between realizing the cessation of Nibbana, or the endless realizing of nirvana/samsara, is ultimately neither here nor there. No higher, no lower. No spiritual hierarchy of transcendent amazingness (gack). ....And on the level of human behaviour and example. No one, comes close the the virtue demonstrated by the beautiful Theravadin Monks and Nuns I have had the good fortune to know! No "Bodhisattva" Ive ever met comes close to the likes of these people. So no. This practitioner not in your Holy camp
"Nothing Holy, Great Space!" Bodhidharma
Hi ansanna
These are common beliefs of the various commentarial traditions.:p
Previously, however, you were talking of "Nikaya Buddhism" and "annihilating consciousness".:p
The Buddha never taught annihilating consciousness, quite the contrary.:p
In the Majjhima Nikaya, the Buddha clearly states Nirvana to be a kind of consciousness:
Be well.:p
Well , Thecap , you may need to define this different of the Nivanic consciousness and the consciousness in the five aggregate ( pancha-skandha )
as in elementary Buddhist teaching all these five aggregates of form, perception, conception , volition and consciousness are all temporarily element of a individual self .
I think the Yogachara and the Tathagata-garbha school explains that better with their eight level of consciousness ( vijnana , discernment ) and the nineth level of consciousenss ( amala consciousness as the pure and undefiled consciousness )