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An Evening with a Jehovah's Witness
novaw0lf
Veteran
Last night, I had a four-hour long conversation with a woman who was a Jehovah's Witness.
Everything that I said to her was of Buddhist philosophy, but I didn't tell her that I was a Buddhist because I wanted to see if we could have an unbiased conversation under the philosophy of cosmic equality; I refer to cosmic equality being the concept of even though two people may disagree or have differing views, there's no reason why they couldn't sit at a dinner table and discuss their differences as equals. For me to tell her that I was a Buddhist, to put a label on my belief-structure, would be to subconsciously draw a line between our beliefs, instead of talking at the dinner table as equal human beings. I thought of that conversation as an experiment to prove that we're all fighting for virtually same things; I was proven right.
I love that there wasn't a single thing that I said to her that she dismissed or truly disagreed with; we may have had differing opinions based off of differing logical approaches to situations, but we each had virtually the same exact conclusion at the end of every discussed concept. She gave me some reading material, and I told her that it would be my honor to read every page of each of the books that she gave me, out of my thirst for knowledge, my respect for her, and my respect for her faith.
At the end of the conversation, she was *glowing* with positive energy. Her daughter (my girlfriend, who knew that I was a Buddhist, but also stayed silent) said: "I think a lot of people don't actually understand what a Buddhist is. I didn't. I think if you explained it she would understand.
She REALLY likes you and really enjoyed talking to you. She's talking.to me about it now."
I replied: "Many westerners don't. Precisely why I didn't tell her at first. I wanted her to see the heart of my philosophy before writing it off as eastern mysticism that she didn't understand."
Overall, it was an amazing conversation, and I proved something that night about the nature of "right intent" and "right view" being universal.
Everything that I said to her was of Buddhist philosophy, but I didn't tell her that I was a Buddhist because I wanted to see if we could have an unbiased conversation under the philosophy of cosmic equality; I refer to cosmic equality being the concept of even though two people may disagree or have differing views, there's no reason why they couldn't sit at a dinner table and discuss their differences as equals. For me to tell her that I was a Buddhist, to put a label on my belief-structure, would be to subconsciously draw a line between our beliefs, instead of talking at the dinner table as equal human beings. I thought of that conversation as an experiment to prove that we're all fighting for virtually same things; I was proven right.
I love that there wasn't a single thing that I said to her that she dismissed or truly disagreed with; we may have had differing opinions based off of differing logical approaches to situations, but we each had virtually the same exact conclusion at the end of every discussed concept. She gave me some reading material, and I told her that it would be my honor to read every page of each of the books that she gave me, out of my thirst for knowledge, my respect for her, and my respect for her faith.
At the end of the conversation, she was *glowing* with positive energy. Her daughter (my girlfriend, who knew that I was a Buddhist, but also stayed silent) said: "I think a lot of people don't actually understand what a Buddhist is. I didn't. I think if you explained it she would understand.
She REALLY likes you and really enjoyed talking to you. She's talking.to me about it now."
I replied: "Many westerners don't. Precisely why I didn't tell her at first. I wanted her to see the heart of my philosophy before writing it off as eastern mysticism that she didn't understand."
Overall, it was an amazing conversation, and I proved something that night about the nature of "right intent" and "right view" being universal.
0
Comments
I replied: "Very true, but I found the relative link to agree on without actually becoming a Jehovah's Witness, myself."
In essence, I entertained JW philosophy, without becoming one myself...all without offending the other person; I actually enlightening and emotionally UPLIFTED the other person. Evidence to support that we CAN all get along.
The Blood issue, for example, is political, rather than spiritual; it was first enforced in 1945 when giving blood in the US was seen as patriotic; and JWs don't like patriotism, so banned giving and receiving blood. They also banned organ transplants, people died, and they eventually retracted that one. But many JWs have died because they refused blood transplants.
Disfellowshipping is where a disgraced JW (who has lost his/her faith for example) is cut off from their family; no-one will talk or interact with them, and for someone who has been shielded from 'Worldly People', like ourselves, this is sometimes a terrifying prospect for them. It has led to suicides.
There's also the many failed prophesies of the End of Wicknedness (aka the End of the World (for us)); and the strong belief that we're at the End of Times, which means they often discourage their children from further education once they leave compulsory education.
Oh, on a personal note, I have helped a JW recover from alcoholism. The JW Elders disfellowshipped him; alcoholism is a sin and is seen as gluttony; and he (and his wife) had quite a struggle, not only with his alcohol problem, but readjusting to the 'normal world'.
However, saying all that, the average JW I know and have met have been lovely people.
The 'normal world'? Do they create a community unto themselves? Sounds like a cult.
They denounce any political involvement, including voting. Discouragement of any outside influence is the purpose, I believe.
Jehovah's Witnesses Wiki, cites good sources.
If they're not pulling their weight, they may get a visit from the Elders. So they do live in the 'open', but in a sense, live in quite a hermetically sealed JW environment. In fact one of the reasons why I know so many is because a lot of window cleaners are JWs (I'm a window cleaner), because in this way they can control their working environment, and they do not have to closely associate with 'Worldly People'. I reckon about 50% of the window cleaners in my area are JWs.
Some of this may sound claustrophobic and controlling, but a JW I discussed this with did not think so.
I'm open to all religions; but there are many areas about JW doctrine that I disagree with, particularly the blood doctrine, which I strongly disagree with, and see as utterly pointless. Acts 15 in the Bible is the one they usually cite as justifying their stance, but when the issue is looked at in full, you can see it's political, not spiritual.
This is quite wrong.
It's obvious it should be reported to the police, and not left to Elders to decide whether it is necessary to inform the police (or not).
In my town these days, they seem to keep a much lower profile than formerly. Less pushy as well; however, that's here in the city. From reports from relatives up in the rural north, it sounds like their campaigns are still pretty vigorous.
It is a wise man indeed who can learn early on to get along with his mother-in-law . And I'm sure if, on the off chance, your girlfriend reads your post, she will think you are the most wonderful boyfriend ever! : ) Lol
Kwan Kev
There are a wealth of ex JW websites to provide support for disfellowshipped members.
But as I said earlier, the JWs I have met have been lovely people.
My concern is that they're told to report child molestation and other crimes to elders within the congregation, rather than to the authorities. That's a red flag indicating a cult, to me. But I'm glad you got along so well with your girlfriend's mother, novawolf. It sounds like you both made a big effort to hear each other and respect each other's views, and to meet in the middle, to find commonalities. This is how the world should be, ideally Congratulations.
Stereotypes exist for every religion, even Buddhists.
To write them off because of a small percentage of their population would knock on your doorstep with a spiel is for them to write off anything a Buddhist would say as evil eastern mysticism.
The fact that she is a potential mother-in-law is irrelevant; I would defend the universal rights of every religion, regardless of my circumstance, even if I personally disagree with them.
But I don't know about "all people deserve to be heard". People who have an agenda of tuning out your beliefs (which wasn't the case in the experience you presented here, but that seems like a special circumstance) and subverting your beliefs to replace them with their own beliefs don't necessarily deserve to be heard. People interested in a genuine open-minded exchange do deserve to be heard. When they come to the door with their leaflets and Bibles, they're selling something. That's just a fact. I'm not interested in what they're selling, that's all.
Maybe if I met one in a social situation, we could talk. I've never met a JW in such a context, and going by what other people have said about them, I think I'm not likely to. But if I did, I wouldn't have any reason to judge them, I'd chat with them as I would with anyone else at a social event. On the other hand, when they're "on the job", and their job is to convert me to their religion, I'll pass, thank you.
Would you have spent 4 hours with a stranger coming to your door with the sole intent of converting you to their religion?
I believe that all people do deserve to be heard, even extremists like Nazis. I could completely disagree with their entire argument, but I understand that they think the way that they do for a reason; we are all but products of our lineage and experience. This means, even people like murderers are not outside of the realm of compassion; people like that need more compassion than anyone.
Even if they are trying to sell me something, that's not what I pay attention to; what I pay attention to is that this person is doing what they believe is right for the sake of what they believe to be right. I just assume a position to make sure that they feel genuine about their convictions (whatever they may be), and not living their lives by regurgitated social programming. I make sure that if they must sell or play a game, that they do it because they are the master of their own reality and this is a choice that they're making because they have faith in their beliefs...not because they are a drone doing what other people would tell them to do. I encourage people to live.
If they are a drone, then I encourage them to snap out of it; if they are not, then I enjoy the game of social chess.
Yes.
I would spend 4 hours (if I had the time window available) to speak to anyone who needed help or sought anything that I could give them for any reason.
Just like I spent the time necessary to write and edit this very post.
Shunning breaks up families and has caused suicides. I've a friend in A.A. who was disfellowshipped and shunned because of his alcoholism; that's classed as a sin since they say it's 'greed'.
They see whats going on but dont want
to get involved
hihi
Nollaig shona
There is a JW church a block from my house. Once in a while a JW would knock on our door. They always sounded nice, but something about their body language and demeanor seem "off" to me. It always seemed suspicious to me that a church, any church would recruit so actively, or at all. I used to think it's the other way around, that a church is a place that people seek out for spiritual guidance.
My former church (Seventh Day Adventist) has something like this - I believe in our case, it's a booklet for each [offending] religion, lol - like, "How to Refute Catholicism," and "How to Refute Buddhism," etc. The title isn't quite that blatant - it may be something like "Witnessing to Buddhists." I'll try to find a copy - I remember seeing them in the ABC (Adventist Book Center) last I went.
Ha
Lots of groups do this, though, not just JWs. A whole branch of my family is southern baptist missionary, so you can imagine what family "visits" are like: "Oh, I like the new living room colour ... let's talk about Jesus now." Ugh.