Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Attachment..

edited September 2005 in Buddhism Basics
Alright, as I read through the forums, I read about attachment. What is the deal with attachment? Are you not suppose to get attached or is it just the materialistic things in life that your not suppose to get wrapped up in?

:confused:

Comments

  • edited May 2005
    Also,

    this may sound silly...but really...why are there so many different kinds of buddhas. Like statues and images. What makes them different? ^_^
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2005
    "Desire can be compared to fire. If we grasp fire, what happens? Does it lead to happiness?
    If we say: "Oh, look at that beautiful fire! Look at the beautiful colors! I love red and orange; they're my favorite colors," and then grasp it, we would find a certain amount of suffering entering the body. And then if we were to contemplate the cause of that suffering we would discover it was the result of having grasped that fire. On that information, we would hopefully, then let the fire go. Once we let fire go then we know that it is something not to be attached to.
    This does not mean we have to hate it, or put it out. We can enjoy fire, can't we? It's nice having a fire, it keeps the room warm, but we do not have to burn ourselves in it."

    ~Ajahn Sumedho

    If you read this careful you will see the view of attachment from a buddhist perspective. The goal of the path is to be free of all attachments which frees you from dukkha. Now this doesn't mean anything to people like us. We are not that far along. So my advice is to just observe yourself and try to notice when attachments are causeing you stress. Look closely at the emotions and clinging you may feel. Learning to see the mental processes in this way takes a long time of practice. Don't feel discouraged because every person is the same. It takes time. Don't worry about being free of anything until you first observe them careful over and over again and know them like the back of your hand. Then, the wisdom will come to you without you having to force it when you are ready. Also here is a site that may have more information on attachment if you need it: http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/attachment.html
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2005
    There are so many differnent kinds of Buddhas because there are so many different kinds of people and cultures. In truth there was Siddhattha Gotama who when elightened was called the Buddha which just means awakened. But as people tend to do, after time, began to mke different Buddha's either out of old local gods (such as the Tibetans), or from stories trying to show the cycle of life that included the birth of an age, the teaching of Dhamma, the lost of the teachings, the death of an age, the birth of another age, the teaching of Dhamma, etc..... Some are different because they are aspects of gods or a buddha. For example Avalokitesvara is the Tibetan Buddha image that represents the aspect of compassion. In China this aspect is their Goddess of Compassion Kuan Yin. There are also protectors, and so on. Some are not even really Buddhas in that case. They are icons for people to have faith in and not much more.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2005
    Disclaimer:

    I hope these helped, what I wrote isn't law though, and only how I see things. Other people may have a different view of attachments and such. I just try to do my best and explain things from my own practice. : )
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2005
    Elohim has a wonderful way of putting things, and I always like to read his posts, they're always interesting...... :)

    From my point of view, (and that is something you'll find an awful lot of Buddhists saying!) the definition of attachment is having a burning but unconscious desire to have all things in Life remaining permanently.... a good job, a wonderful partner, a wonderful home & posessions, two great parents..... all these things are subject to change, and end.... nothing is permanent and our wanting it to be, is what makes us distressed deep inside. these are the first two Noble Truths: that 1) Life is Difficult/Suffering, and that 2), it is that way because we cling to that which is impermanent.... So the Buddha showed us a way through this pain...; by following the Eightfold path,a nd making the Effort to do the 'Right Everything', we create an inner Peace and Joy which nothing can harm. we have a right to display anger, sadness, happiness, frustration, and any emotion you care to mention. just don't let it eat you up, and channel it constructively. use it to better know yourself.

    The Buddha resisted effigies and statues of himself, because he really didn't want people elevating him to any other status than being a simple Man with a Plan.... however, statues of different kinds exist in different cultures, and they serve as a simple reminder that as he was, so can we be.... transpose your face for his, and you will see that this can be so.....
  • edited May 2005
    Perhaps the most dangerous attachment is the attachment to desired and expected outcomes. Frustration and anger are the result of being disappointed by things beyond our control. I guess this is why gambling is so dangerous...it forces one to be very attached to a certain outcome and at risk of going to immoral lengths to force the outcome to be desirable.
    Expecting marriage to be like a fairytale.
    Expecting one's career to go in a specific direction at a certain pace.
    Blah blah blah...the list is endless.
    The solution is usually to be honest with yourself and just say "I don't know."
    "How will this turn out?"..."I don't know."
    "Is there an afterlife?"..."I have no conscious recollection of a prior life so I don't know."
    "Is there a god?"..."I don't know."
  • edited May 2005
    Anita,

    I'm glad that you're having queries about the Buddhist approach to overcoming attachment.

    DO NOT WORRY ABOUT BEING UNSURE! One of the main things the Buddha taught was that you should question what he said - and not just take it for the written truth.

    With that in mind maybe you could do a little experiment...

    Take something you really cherish and hold it in your hands.

    Ask yourself why you cherish this thing, what is it anyway?

    Maybe it reminds you of someone or a time, place or love in the past. Ask yourself - does it bring that thing back to you? Does it make you closer to the person/thing/love/place?

    Would all these feelings be lost if you no longer had the object?

    Mediatate on these sorts of questions.

    I hope you get the general idea - my favourite thing to do, is to imagine the thing you are attached to 50 years after you're dead - will it be so special then?

    Is it really so special now?

    One of the best pieces of advice I have ever gotten was regarding the true value of things. The real value of something is uncovered when you give it away to someone else. This is the true meaning of charity (in my opinion) and can help to bring you closer to yourself.

    For example I purchased an expensive japanese sword from Japan, a few years ago. This particular sword is designed for the practice of Iaido - which I had intended on taking up. My path, instead, took me closer to the Chinese arts and so the sword, that I admired greatly, was not being used. Because the sword had 'cost' so much and because the beauty of it was so great I coveted it - enjoying being in it's presence and the potential still power it represented.
    A few years down the line my friend began studying Aikido, a Japanese martial art. He was talking about purchasing a sword to futher his practice. This seemed like an excellent opportunity to reveal the true value of the object and I gave it to him - knowing that it would be used correctly by him and not possessed selfishly - like I had been doing.

    Do I miss the sword - no.

    Am I happier it is being put to use (focusing the mind of a martial artist) - of course.

    I hope this story can be of some use. To truly get closer to non-attachment you must meditate on impermenance, in my opinion.

    Then you can be not want.

    peace
  • edited May 2005
    So basically, I shouldn't be attached to things like money, or really materialistic things.

    What about when you fall in love with someone...you become attached to them as well...and then when they are gone you hurt tremedously. I know life goes on...but I mean you can't help but to get attached to something or someone... Its human nature.
  • edited May 2005
    Anita wrote:
    but I mean you can't help but to get attached to something or someone... Its human nature.

    Is it really human nature?

    I'm not sure - I'd say it was more to do with the nature of the ego.

    I see your point though - trust me - just maintain your practice and maybe your views will change...

    If this sounds condescending - I apologise I only want to help!

    My best friend died about 8 months ago. It was a sad day but I was happy for him though - he had a good life and a good death. I see him in everything.

    Do I yearn to have him back? No - for this is a futile endevour that will bring only negative emotions and thoughts. The same could be said for attaching to anything be they ideas things or people.

    Try to sit and be, without wanting. Aware and accepting. This is zazen (meditation).

    :thumbsup:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2005
    let me tell you Anita, BeautifulSpringtimeFist is an old head on young shoulders - he's a month older than my own daughter, but he is very wise and everything he is saying to you, I have found to be correct, as far as I'm concerned....It's like I said earlier, feelings and emotions are perfectly natural human traits; there is nothing wrong at all with experiencing them: I am in love with my fella.... it's a relatively new relationship, so it's adventurous, exciting and a voyage of discovery..... but one day, it will come to an end, in one way or another..... so don't dwell on the perceived sadness of what may or may not be..... rejoice in the present moment, have fun NOW, and let what will come to pass take care of itself. Life is like a shopping cart; you go partly where you want to, and partly where the darned thing takes you..... have a good trip, by all means make plans, but then forget it, and live for the NOW. You cannot ever be anywhere else, so have fun now, because that's all there is.... and it is truly wonderful.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2005
    I agree that BeautifulSpringtimeFist has very good advice. I had a lot of stuff that I was not using and gave it away to people who could use it. One of them was a guitar that was really nice looking. I tried to learn how to play, but I never got anywhere with it. The guitar spent most of it's time in my closet. I gave it to someone who mentioned they played and needed a new one. I didn't even know the person. It was a friend of Brian's. I'm glad that it is being used and I felt better inside for just letting an attachment go as well as making another person happy at the same time. Love isn't the same as some object, but the feelings can be similar. Love may not always be love. It can be lust, it can be the need to have someone's attention, the need to feel loved or special. Love can be your mind's way of filling an emptiness you may be feeling. Some people for example say they love a man that hurts them all the time. I don't think that's love as much as attachment, and trying to hold onto something that fills an empty mental space. When there is real love, and an honest careing about someone, you don't have to "own" that person. In many relationships one person feels the other person is "theirs". "My" boyfriend". "My" boyfirnd just looked at another girl! (insert emotions of jealousy and anger) Is it real love and not some type of clinging if you can feel such negative emotions? I'm not sure myself what love exactly is, but it is a good place to try and be mindful of what you are feeling, why you may be feeling that specific emotion, and whether this feeling is skillful or not. Does it do you any good? Does it give you a lasting happiness? Is there any pain involved? Just investigate these things and try to find out more about them. Yes, there is pain and hurt, but those emotions are not you. They are just emotions. Use them as a tool. They mean there is a problem, and you have to be the detective trying to solve the case of what it is. There is nothing wrong with love, but becareful that 'love' doesn't turn into a 'habitual clinging'.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2005
    Elohim wrote:
    Yes, there is pain and hurt, but those emotions are not you. They are just emotions. Use them as a tool.

    Exactly so.... emotions are not you.... what an insightful and worthy piece of wisdom....
    Thanks Elohim for putting it so eloquently.... Gosh, I'm surrounded by geniuses!! All I need now is for it to become contagious....:lol:
  • edited May 2005
    I recently got out of a 4 year relationship, and the first two years were great. That last two things started to go down hill. He started becoming more and more needy and that caused fighting. He didn't want me to do anything without him and everytime I would talk about leaving he would go crazy. I didn't leave because I was in "love" with him. But I always told myself that it was more of an attachment thing. I felt like I needed to stay with him because he was needy and didn't have the things that I did at home. I felt like I was really all he had. I finally couldn't take the drama any longer and ended it. It was hard but I had to do it. I don't like drama, and I can't stand having it in my life. In the long run I thought it would be better to stay away from him because, I was the cause of him going crazy if I'm no longer there, then he couldn't dread on it. I miss him sometimes, but I guess thats natural. ^_^

    On a lighter note,
    I had a hampster named Chewy. And I found a home for him yesterday. Even though I was a bit sad I felt better because I gave him to a little boy who will enjoy him and love him more than I ever would. I have to say, making people happy is a natural high, especially when you make a child happy. :D :bigclap:
  • ZenLunaticZenLunatic Veteran
    edited May 2005
    Anita wrote:
    I miss him sometimes, but I guess thats natural. ^_^

    The further we are away from a situation, the clear it becomes. Hindsight is truly 20/20 (with corrective lenses, of course!).

    You may end up realizing that you don't miss the him, the person, but you miss the IDEA of him..that is, of someone important in your life, etc.

    Attachments are hard to let go of..whether it be a physical attachment or an attachment to an idea. No one said it would be easy! That is why we 'practice' buddhism... because we're not good at it yet ;)
  • edited September 2005
    Im really attached to videogames but no matter what I do I cant stop playing them....
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2005
    Actually, you can, if you really want to. My guess is you actually don't want to.

    If you state that something you do is impossible to stop, you are confirming that something intangible and 'non-existent' is stronger than you (tangible and existent) are....
  • edited September 2005
    This is a question that has been bugging me as well lately. Thanks for all the help (especially BSF). I was very attached to (in love with?) my ex-girlfriend, even though she treated me like shit. After we broke up I thought I would miss her but I don't. I guess we should ask ourselves how the things we are attached to make us better people. Fire can provide us with light and warmth but we can't become so attached and dependant on it that we allow ourselves to get hurt.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2005
    I would say that there are also different degrees of attachment; attachment to posessions, animals and people vary, perhaps because of the reciprocal nature... we don't get as attached to 'things' because they don't love us back.... animals do, and so do people.
    Having watched some of the distressing, harrowing and disturbing news footage from New Orleans and the surrounding communities, it's hard to imagine how desolate and desperate these people feel about losing everything they own.... (I wouldn't like to present these theories to these poor people right now. It would be adding insult to injury) but maybe down the line, in hindsight, they'd probably admit that their despair was at losing what those things represent: security, safety and peace of mind.... also, it's easier to break off an attachment to something, if we relinquish it voluntarily, instead of having it ripped from our grasp.....
  • edited September 2005
    federica wrote:
    Life is like a shopping cart; you go partly where you want to, and partly where the darned thing takes you.....

    That is my new favorite saying! :)
Sign In or Register to comment.