Is it okay to practice Uposatha only partly?

lotuspadma

I'm fine with most of the precepts, but I have trouble with not eating after noon and not sleeping on high beds. Mainly because of my health. I'm afraid of fasting because I'm very underweight (7 kg lighter than I should be), and also I live with my grandma and she will very unlikely accept a fasting grandchild. I wouldn't mind sleeping on the ground, but I have asthma which is induced by allergy of dust mites. The floor is clean and my asthma is well-controlled, but it is not reccomended for asthmatics to sleep on the floor or close to the ground. Maybe if I sleep with my dust mask?? What do I do? I won't take the precepts because I fear I won't be able to keep them all, I'll only train with the others. Is it wrong to do so? In this site I saw it is called niggantha-uposatha. It ellaborates:
"The niggantha-uposatha is the partial or incomplete observance of the Uposatha. In connection to the first precept, those who observe this Uposatha might refrain from taking life in the direction of the west but not in the other directions. They may refrain from killing their own mothers, fathers, relatives, friends or certain animals which are dear to them, but they do not refrain when it comes to other beings. The other precepts are practiced along these lines. In short, this group keeps the precepts as they like. This observance is called niggantha-uposatha."

Can someone please illuminate me? I very much want to practice uposatha correctly! Thank you!

Jason

No, it's not wrong. Observing some is better than observing none, in my opinion. Buddhism is an extremely pragmatic path, and the eight precepts are more like rules of training for people who want to engage in a more strenuous practice — particularly a more contemplative one, such as on meditation retreats — than hard and fast rules requiring absolute obedience (it's the five precepts that should all be observed to the best of your ability). My advice to just use your common sense and observe what you can with the concerns/limitations you have. The benefits of these practices really depends on the effort you put towards using them to cleanse your mind of defilements, not simply the motion of doing them.

lotuspadma

If I were to practice everything else, but the 6th and 8th precepts due to poor health, would it be the same as if practicing everything? As in that article it says that one can use cosmetics if it is due to illness... Does the same principle apply?

lotuspadma

Anyone?

Jason

It's entirely up to you how many precepts you undertake and how strictly you observe them. As I mentioned before, "My advice to just use your common sense and observe what you can with the concerns/limitations you have. The benefits of these practices really depends on the effort you put towards using them to cleanse your mind of defilements, not simply the motion of doing them."

lotuspadma

Yes, I've realized that. But I would like to know if it has the same effect as practicing everything, since what I wouldn't be practicing would be due to illness?

Zero

lotuspadma said:

I have trouble with not eating after noon and not sleeping on high beds.

In which case, eat after noon and sleep in a suitable bed for your needs.

lotuspadma said:

If I were to practice everything else, but the 6th and 8th precepts due to poor health, would it be the same as if practicing everything?

No, it's not the same.

That does not however mean it's better or worse - it just is.

If you had no legs, walking meditation would be a pointless dream - if you had no eyes, your other senses would grow stronger.

Deal with the cards you have the best way you can.

lotuspadma

Is this one of those times when self-sacrifice is not bad?

Zero

lotuspadma said:

Is this one of those times when self-sacrifice is not bad?

? could you explain a little more ?

caz

Observe precepts with wisdom !

The 5 are best kept as a method for accumulating great merit and personal morality.

No...

1. Killing
2. Stealing
3. Lying
4. Sexual Misconduct
5. Intoxicants

Jason

lotuspadma said:

Yes, I've realized that. But I would like to know if it has the same effect as practicing everything, since what I wouldn't be practicing would be due to illness?

Again, I'd say that's entirely up to you since "the benefits of these practices really depends on the effort you put towards using them to cleanse your mind of defilements, not simply the motion of doing them." Obviously, not observing one or two isn't the same as observing all eight; but the benefits or effects from observing any have to do more with your intentions and the effort you put into practicing them than the number you observe. Since it seems like you have certain health concerns/limitations, I'd hesitate to say that you should try to observe all of them strictly, and what you're able to do is really only known to you. If you have concerns, I'd advise you ask your teacher or doctor about it as they'd probably have more insight into the matter. Otherwise, just do what you're able without endangering your health.

lotuspadma

@Zero and @Jason I've heard a story from the Jataka, which mentions a servant who kept Uposatha at the cost of his life. His next birth was fortunate.

Take a look:
The Bodhisatta once took service under Suciparivāra of Benares, in whose household everyone kept the fast on uposatha-days. The Bodhisatta, not knowing this, went to work as usual on the fast day, but, on discovering that no one else was working and the reason for their abstention, he refused to take any food, and as a result of his fasting died in the night. He was reborn as son of the king of Benares, and later became king under the name of Udaya. On meeting Addhamāsaka (q.v.), Udaya shared the kingdom with him, but one day Addhamāsaka, discovering that he harboured a desire to kill Udaya, renounced his kingdom and became an ascetic. When Udaya heard of this he uttered a stanza, referring to his own past life, but no one could understand the meaning of it. The queen, anxious to learn the meaning, told the king's barber Gangamāla how he might win the king's favour, and when the king offered him a boon, Gangamāla chose to have the stanza explained to him. When he learnt how Udaya had won a kingdom as a result of having kept the fast for half a day, Gangamāla renounced the world and, developing asceticism, became a Pacceka Buddha. Later he visited King Udaya and preached to him and his retinue, addressing the king by name. The queen-mother took offence at this and abused Gangamāla, but the king begged him to forgive her. Gangamāla returned to Gandhamādana, though urged by Udaya to stay in the royal park.

Ananda was Addhamāsaka, and Rāhulamātā was the queen.

The story was related by the Buddha to some lay-followers to en-courage them in their observance of the Uposatha

(http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/g/gangamaala_jat_421.htm)

In my opinion his actions are so extreme and reckless, but it bore a good fruit, so it is confusing. Is this even entirely canon?

Zero

Personally, 'common sense' drives me more than ancient stories.

This is not altogether true but it is most significantly true in this particular instance, in my mind.

As I read the story I thought, "If rebirth is on the cards, I'd be content in this very life I have now".

Be kind to yourself.

footiam

lotuspadma said:

I'm fine with most of the precepts, but I have trouble with not eating after noon and not sleeping on high beds. Mainly because of my health. I'm afraid of fasting because I'm very underweight (7 kg lighter than I should be), and also I live with my grandma and she will very unlikely accept a fasting grandchild. I wouldn't mind sleeping on the ground, but I have asthma which is induced by allergy of dust mites. The floor is clean and my asthma is well-controlled, but it is not reccomended for asthmatics to sleep on the floor or close to the ground. Maybe if I sleep with my dust mask?? What do I do? I won't take the precepts because I fear I won't be able to keep them all, I'll only train with the others. Is it wrong to do so? In this site I saw it is called niggantha-uposatha. It ellaborates:
"The niggantha-uposatha is the partial or incomplete observance of the Uposatha. In connection to the first precept, those who observe this Uposatha might refrain from taking life in the direction of the west but not in the other directions. They may refrain from killing their own mothers, fathers, relatives, friends or certain animals which are dear to them, but they do not refrain when it comes to other beings. The other precepts are practiced along these lines. In short, this group keeps the precepts as they like. This observance is called niggantha-uposatha."

Can someone please illuminate me? I very much want to practice uposatha correctly! Thank you!

I suppose it should be all right. As far as sleeping on high beds is concerned, I remember reading somewhere this practice started when a monk, during Buddha's time, was accused of having an affair by a woman who ran into his room and hid under his bed. To avoid a repetition of such problem,, monks are not allowed to sleep on high beds from then on. Since we don't have this problem of being accused of having affair by people who hide under our bed, it should be all right to sleep on high beds. In Buddhist literature too, one often read of this: that if a guitar string is stretched too tight, the strings break and if too loose, it would not play. We are the guitar. If you have asthma and should not sleep on the floor, then don't. Everything else should work under the same principle. Whatever we read about anything, Buddhist or non-Buddhist literature, we certainly must weigh it. Didn't Buddha say not to take his words at word level but to investigate it. If there is a precept that say no killing, it should apply to all; not just certain beings. We should not accept things blindly even if it comes from a Buddhist source.

lotuspadma

I practiced what I could on the last Uposatha day (sunday), and it was hard enough. I left off the 6th and the 8th for later. If the doctors says it's okay for me to practice them, I will. Otherwise, I'll just do what I can. I think it's probably more blameworthy to practice without consideration for your health, than to not practice it entirely. I think.

Cory

I can engage in seven of the precepts, I cannot fast. I am already 21 ponds under weight for my height. When I can get rid of the bed I have now to make room for a lower bed, I will surely do so. I need my metabolism balanced before I can start fasting.

lotuspadma

Good on you, Cory! Seven precepts is a lot! Congratulations and hope that there will be a time when you can practice them all.

lotuspadma

Btw, I finally understood the quote I posted on my original post. A niggantha-uposatha is when you don't practice very well because you don't want to, not because you can't. A partial Uposatha where all the precepts that can be kept by you are practiced in their entirety is wholesome in my opinion.