question regarding meditation

misecmisc1

hi all,

today while sitting in meditation with eyes closed and trying to be in present moment, one question came up, so thought of asking you all. what i was trying to do is to be just aware of whatever is happening in the present moment, though most of the time i was getting entangled in thoughts, but i think there were very rare occasions of very small duration, in which there was no thought. But at that time, a question came up - where should i focus my attention on to? if i try to focus on the tip of my nose, or if i try to feel sensations occuring in the face - then is that not some sort of doing, rather than being in present moment. Also i noted that as soon as i tried to be aware of the present moment, there was some tension near my eyes and top of my face, and when i tried to relax it, then i was able to relax the muscles around these areas - which indicates that the muscles were slightly tensed when i thought to be aware of the present moment.

then i tried not to put focus on anything, rather just feel whatever is going on - but i noticed that this was something like a dull diffused type of sitting in which somehow the sensations became less clear to me - it is difficult to explain this thing, but hope you all are getting what i am trying to say - something like i was not sleepy, but those moments just passed and i hardly noticed anything there - then after sometime i tried to feel the sensations and then the sensations began to become clear to me.

so the question comes down to : should i try to focus on something by trying to be in present moment - or - should i just have this diffused type of sitting, in which i am trying not to do anything? moreover is this diffused type of sitting just a sort of passing the time, or can it be helpful? any ideas please. thanks in advance.

BhikkhuJayasara

I think that depends on what type of meditation you are trying to engage, dependent on what Buddhist tradition.. the Theravadans go by the Pali Scriptures in the Anapanasati Sutta(mindfulness of breathing - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html)

and the Mahasatipatana sutta(great frames of reference) - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html

there you would use the breath as your base object and observe phenomenon as they come and go, returning always to the breath. Other traditions like Zen teach different meditations like Zazen.

I don't think you ever need to "focus" on being in the present moment, regardless of the type of meditation, the present moment comes when you let go.

blu3ree

Meditation techniques are easy to practise because they have a form. Awareness is harder because it has no form. Buddhism

Quote from buddhism now on facebook

Jeffrey

Yes, it depends what meditation method you are following.

Sabby

I typically fine that the best method that works for me is focusing on the breath, the cool thing is, as you focus on the breath for a duration of time, you don't notice you are focusing but instead your body intuitively follows the breath rhythmically, until you realize again you are focusing and so on and so on..

Personally, I would find it very hard to not have a certain something to focus on (whether it be breath/tip of the nose/face) and be able to just be and be able to be in the present... they are tools for a reason to able to focus and calm your mind

Zero

misecmisc1 said:

today while sitting in meditation with eyes closed and trying to be in present moment...

Keep sitting with it until you have no further questions - doesn't have to be in one sitting and you don't have to leave it at the matt.

chela

It sounds a little like maybe you are trying to be too forceful with your focus, as you refer to tense muscles in the face. You just gently guide yourself back to your breath when you realize you are engaged in thinking. Don't be hard on yourself- if your thoughts come in, let them come in. Thich Nhat Hanh says to make friends with your thoughts, so you can say, "hello thought" as your thought comes in, and then let it go out. If you get entwined in your thoughts, don't be harsh on yourself. As soon as you find you are engaged in thinking, congratulate yourself for realizing it, then return to your breath. Occasionally, when you are coming back from engaged thought, smile to yourself because that will help relax your focus. Just keep it light and playful for a while so that you can relax.

pegembara

misecmisc1 said:

hi all,

there were very rare occasions of very small duration, in which there was no thought. But at that time, a question came up - where should i focus my attention on to? if i try to focus on the tip of my nose, or if i try to feel sensations occuring in the face - then is that not some sort of doing, rather than being in present moment. Also i noted that as soon as i tried to be aware of the present moment, there was some tension near my eyes and top of my face, and when i tried to relax it, then i was able to relax the muscles around these areas - which indicates that the muscles were slightly tensed when i thought to be aware of the present moment.

so the question comes down to : should i try to focus on something by trying to be in present moment - or - should i just have this diffused type of sitting, in which i am trying not to do anything? moreover is this diffused type of sitting just a sort of passing the time, or can it be helpful? any ideas please. thanks in advance.

A question is a thought - so are you sure you have attained "silence".

As long as one is focussed on the 5 senses - as in being aware of sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch - you are in the present moment. It is thinking that brings you away from the here and now but by being aware of the thoughts but not getting dragged into it's contents you remain present.

misecmisc1

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies.

one more question - since i sit in full-lotus position, so do i need a cushion to sit on? i usually sit on the carpet or the mat, which is flat on the floor. i am asking this thing - because something inside me keeps on saying - check whether my back is straight - then i try to make it straight and within 5 sec it starts to feel uncomfortable, then i relax my back so that it feels comfortable - then again something says to me - may be my back is not straight, it may be slightly dropped, check again whether my back is straight - then again i find that my back was slightly dropped. So it is something like this - if my back is straight, then after 2 min or 3 min max, it starts to feel uncomfortable - but when my back is slightly dropped or relaxed, it feels comfortable and also because of this slightly dropped back, i do not fall asleep. So should i maintain the straight back even though it is uncomfortable, or, should i keep the back slightly dropped in curve posture so that it feels comfortable? moreover, the cushion question was relating to this as i wanted to know if using cushion can help in keeping the back straight in full-lotus position.

Please suggest. Thanks in advance.

pegembara

Actually it does not matter what the body is doing so long as it is in a reasonably comfortable position. You are "meditating" as long as you maintain your awareness. What is more important is watching what the mind is doing.

"And how does a monk remain focused on the body in & of itself?
Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.
"Furthermore, when walking, the monk discerns, 'I am walking.' When standing, he discerns, 'I am standing.' When sitting, he discerns, 'I am sitting.' When lying down, he discerns, 'I am lying down.' Or however his body is disposed, that is how he discerns it.
"Furthermore, when going forward & returning, he makes himself fully alert; when looking toward & looking away... when bending & extending his limbs... when carrying his outer cloak, his upper robe & his bowl... when eating, drinking, chewing, & savoring... when urinating & defecating... when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, & remaining silent, he makes himself fully alert.
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.than.html

lobster

so do i need a cushion to sit on

It will help as it raises the pelvis above the knees.
Two encyclopedias and a blanket on top should give you about four firm inches and the rest should take care of itself. A sort of meditative viagra.

DairyLama

misecmisc1 said:

so the question comes down to : should i try to focus on something by trying to be in present moment - or - should i just have this diffused type of sitting, in which i am trying not to do anything?

It sounds like you've been doing formless meditation where there is spacious awareness but no specific object. You might find it useful to do some more.

misecmisc1

hi all,

thanks for your replies.

it sounds like idiotic that i even do not know what type of meditation i am doing. so you may all can consider me to be a complete idiot, who even does not know what type of meditation he is doing.

earlier i was doing anapanasati in which i started sitting in full lotus position, with eyes closed and just trying to be mindful of the breath. but then i ran into a problem - which was since in anapanasati, we just observe our natural breathing and do not try to manipulate our breathing manually - the problem was my natural breathing is too weird, means, inhalation is pretty notable but it is followed by exhalation immediately and the exhalation is sometimes so short that it is very hard to even notice, but then after exhalation there is a long gap between the next inhalation and this story repeats. so during the long gap, my concern started as since there is no breath, so what to observe. Then i started trying to be in present moment, which i said in above post - but found that it was a too diffused type of sitting - it was not that i was not aware of anything, rather i was aware of the external sound, the internal ringing of my ears due to tinnitus problem - but in this, the breath was getting missed sometimes - and the problem which i was facing is where to anchor my focus - if i started focussing on the face to feel the breath sensation on nose, then it would be a sort of doing something - so i asked does this diffused type of sitting in which i do not focus anywhere will help, or , is it just a sort of passing the time without any use. the problem of thoughts arising is from the start till now and usually i think during the gaps between my breaths, when my body becomes slightly comfortable, these thoughts arises and my mind gets entangled in those thoughts - i never figure out the moment the thought arises, rather after some time has passed and my mind has got entangled in those thoughts, then i realize i have to try to be in present moment, then i try to feel the present moment.

So please suggest. Thanks in advance.

Jason

misecmisc1 said:

hi all,

today while sitting in meditation with eyes closed and trying to be in present moment, one question came up, so thought of asking you all. what i was trying to do is to be just aware of whatever is happening in the present moment, though most of the time i was getting entangled in thoughts, but i think there were very rare occasions of very small duration, in which there was no thought. But at that time, a question came up - where should i focus my attention on to? if i try to focus on the tip of my nose, or if i try to feel sensations occuring in the face - then is that not some sort of doing, rather than being in present moment. Also i noted that as soon as i tried to be aware of the present moment, there was some tension near my eyes and top of my face, and when i tried to relax it, then i was able to relax the muscles around these areas - which indicates that the muscles were slightly tensed when i thought to be aware of the present moment.

then i tried not to put focus on anything, rather just feel whatever is going on - but i noticed that this was something like a dull diffused type of sitting in which somehow the sensations became less clear to me - it is difficult to explain this thing, but hope you all are getting what i am trying to say - something like i was not sleepy, but those moments just passed and i hardly noticed anything there - then after sometime i tried to feel the sensations and then the sensations began to become clear to me.

so the question comes down to : should i try to focus on something by trying to be in present moment - or - should i just have this diffused type of sitting, in which i am trying not to do anything? moreover is this diffused type of sitting just a sort of passing the time, or can it be helpful? any ideas please. thanks in advance.

Hard to say as my approach to meditation is slightly different, but my advice is to pick an object and stick with it, whether that object happens to be the breath, one of the four frames of reference, etc. This, I think, will do more to strengthen mindfulness and help keep you grounded in the present than trying to be aware of anything and everything that arises.

In addition, I think it should be noted that there's not really as sharp of a distinction between our experience of the present and 'doing' as one might think. I agree with Thanissaro Bhikkhu, for example, that there's an act of intention (albeit on a very subtle level) that goes into our experience of the present, something that's only suspended during states of 'non-fashioning' (atammayata) brought about through medtiation (e.g., see The Wings to Awakening, II/B and III/G, and The Paradox of Becoming, Chapter 6).

misecmisc1

@Jason: Thanks for your reply.

Hi All,
Any other suggestions, please.

chela

For me, I have a focus, but it does shift around slightly through my meditation and it is sometimes two- or three-pronged. For example, I start with my breath, sometimes I do a short breath count (to 5 or 10) just to get me present and focused. (I don't like to spend a lot of time counting because, at this point, I feel that I sometimes get too wrapped up in the act of counting rather than just being present and observing my thoughts.) Sometimes I hear some car sounds, which I usually try to just observe, but sometimes it is a cardinal outside my window, which I tend to focus on that for a time because it has a rhythm and is there for several minutes. Occasionally, I do a body scan. All of these things I'm trying to do lightly with a little focus, but not forcefully. Sometimes I am sort of focusing on multiple things at one time. Like, my breath and the cardinal, or the cardinal and my observation of thoughts, or maybe all of them I'm noticing at once. I don't know if this is "wrong", but I don't see a problem with this.

My main "goal" is to not get wrapped up in thoughts, but to just observe and be present with everything. I think the focus is really meant to help keep you from getting wrapped up in thoughts so that you are still able to observe the other things going on in the present. When I talk about focus, I'm really talking about a very light focus, which I allow mostly to happen basically on its own. I don't think, "okay, now I'm going to stop listening to that cardinal and only listen to my breath." What would be the point, when listening to the cardinal is a wonderful way to be present. However, sometimes I do say that to myself when I find I'm engaged in thinking, but I say it more like this: "congratulations, I see that I'm thinking and now I will focus on my breath." This is just to bring me back into the present so that I can observe instead of engage.

blu3ree

misecmisc1 said:

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies.

one more question - since i sit in full-lotus position, so do i need a cushion to sit on? i usually sit on the carpet or the mat, which is flat on the floor. i am asking this thing - because something inside me keeps on saying - check whether my back is straight - then i try to make it straight and within 5 sec it starts to feel uncomfortable, then i relax my back so that it feels comfortable - then again something says to me - may be my back is not straight, it may be slightly dropped, check again whether my back is straight - then again i find that my back was slightly dropped. So it is something like this - if my back is straight, then after 2 min or 3 min max, it starts to feel uncomfortable - but when my back is slightly dropped or relaxed, it feels comfortable and also because of this slightly dropped back, i do not fall asleep. So should i maintain the straight back even though it is uncomfortable, or, should i keep the back slightly dropped in curve posture so that it feels comfortable? moreover, the cushion question was relating to this as i wanted to know if using cushion can help in keeping the back straight in full-lotus position.

Please suggest. Thanks in advance.

Everyones back at the second chakra has a slight curve.

As for your back not being straight if you can do full lotus without cushions and your legs till your knees(both of them) are planted on the ground you may not need them. Cushions help to keep the legs and knees firmly planted on the ground.

It depends on how long you have been practicing for and how much time during each day. If you practice zen 4 hours a day your back will be straight (depending on age) within around 2 weeks.

Keep adjusting your back to straight in the long run it will be much stronger your posture will be straighter and more energy will flow through your spine.

It's quite funny to me that u were unaware of your practice! I too had no idea what practice I was doing for around a year then I researched kriya yoga and realized hey that's the one I've been doing all this time.