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Noah Levine and Brad Warner
rivercane
Veteran
For those of you who are familiar with these guys, how do you feel about Noah Levine and Brad Warner? This is something I've been wanting to ask for a long time but was hesitant for a few reasons. First, I guess I should admit that I liked Brad Warner at first after reading his book Hardcore Zen but grew to really dislike him. I followed his blog for awhile just to make fun of him and I even bought and read his book Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate because I heard it was a train wreck and I wanted to laugh at him.
Pretty immature, and I feel like this was clearly a violation of the precepts on my part. I guess most of us have a celebrity or musician that we love to hate. There's something about him that really bothers me but I keep coming back for more. I stopped reading his blog for the most part but would like to check out his new book just to see how low he will go. To be fair, I heard that Sit Down and Shut Up was pretty good, which is why I had no interest in reading it. :rolleyes:
I've come to like Noah Levine even though I hated his first book, Dharma Punx. I thought it was dishonest, self-indulgent, and had very little to do with Buddhism. However, I have come to respect him and consider him a good teacher. Just like Zen Wrapped in Karma, I watched his documentary "Meditate and Destroy" just to make fun of it but wound up really liking it. I plan on watching it again and I think he is doing great work with prisoners and troubled youth. Although he comes across as a bit of a poser in my opinion I find that, unlike Brad Warner, he is very honest and a good teacher. I like his approach, even if some things about him still bother me, and would attend his sangha if I lived close enough.
I'm reading Against the Stream right now, mainly because it was free and I thought I would get a good laugh out of it but I have to admit that I'm really impressed. I still think he's a little dishonest about how bad off he was as far as being incarcerated, being a crack addict and so forth, and I feel that one should be honest about these kinds of things and not exaggerate. It's the whole "I was worse off then you" kind of thing. I noticed that some recovering addicts exaggerate about how bad off they were, kind of bragging in reverse, and I doubt that he was ever homeless although it seems that he tries to give that impression.
But hey, whatever, and like I was saying, I find that his second book is really very good. I'm not even halfway through and it's already given me a new perspective on the teachings and I could see where his work would really appeal to some and that he would be able to reach certain people who would be turned off by a more conventional teacher.
Whew! It actually feels really good to get that off my chest. Why I'm so concerned with these two teachers, I don't know. I guess it shows how neurotic I am!
So how do you guys feel about Brad or Noah Levine?
Pretty immature, and I feel like this was clearly a violation of the precepts on my part. I guess most of us have a celebrity or musician that we love to hate. There's something about him that really bothers me but I keep coming back for more. I stopped reading his blog for the most part but would like to check out his new book just to see how low he will go. To be fair, I heard that Sit Down and Shut Up was pretty good, which is why I had no interest in reading it. :rolleyes:
I've come to like Noah Levine even though I hated his first book, Dharma Punx. I thought it was dishonest, self-indulgent, and had very little to do with Buddhism. However, I have come to respect him and consider him a good teacher. Just like Zen Wrapped in Karma, I watched his documentary "Meditate and Destroy" just to make fun of it but wound up really liking it. I plan on watching it again and I think he is doing great work with prisoners and troubled youth. Although he comes across as a bit of a poser in my opinion I find that, unlike Brad Warner, he is very honest and a good teacher. I like his approach, even if some things about him still bother me, and would attend his sangha if I lived close enough.
I'm reading Against the Stream right now, mainly because it was free and I thought I would get a good laugh out of it but I have to admit that I'm really impressed. I still think he's a little dishonest about how bad off he was as far as being incarcerated, being a crack addict and so forth, and I feel that one should be honest about these kinds of things and not exaggerate. It's the whole "I was worse off then you" kind of thing. I noticed that some recovering addicts exaggerate about how bad off they were, kind of bragging in reverse, and I doubt that he was ever homeless although it seems that he tries to give that impression.
But hey, whatever, and like I was saying, I find that his second book is really very good. I'm not even halfway through and it's already given me a new perspective on the teachings and I could see where his work would really appeal to some and that he would be able to reach certain people who would be turned off by a more conventional teacher.
Whew! It actually feels really good to get that off my chest. Why I'm so concerned with these two teachers, I don't know. I guess it shows how neurotic I am!
So how do you guys feel about Brad or Noah Levine?
0
Comments
Brad Warner gets my seal of approval..whether he wants it or not.
I think he is gutsy and honest. He never pretends to have inside knowledge about speculative states. I think he is a good bloke who makes 'spiritual ' life accessable to those who have no interest in religion...
Perhaps I read sarcasm into your post that was not there.
I am impressed with anyone who can actually write a book and get it published though, and Brad has a ton of fans. He's brought a lot of people to the dharma and I was also a fan after reading his first book. I only started to dislike him a bit after learning more about him, and it was strictly for personal reasons.
I no longer make fun of Brad or Noah Levine and consider both to be true dharma teachers. I think my original post may have been a little mean-spirited.
I don't know Levine, but I lean toward Soto Zen, so I've read Warner (strictly his blog, not his books) and I've seen a few videos. His style doesn't always appeal to me personally, but I like him nevertheless. I think his teaching comes from a genuine place, and he expresses it from his own experience.
But I am quite sure that Warner would be quite Ok with you expressing your honest feelings.
I may not resonate with certain authors, writing styles or personalities and that is okay...
Not to suggest this has anything to do with Mr. Warner. He's quite reactive and doesn't insulate himself, as is the case with most people.
Some have posted here in the past that Noah runs his Buddhist groups like a 12-step program, almost like a commercially-packaged product. I don't know enough about it, but if that's what it takes to reach the prison population and substance abusers, maybe it's a good thing. It seems like he's adapted Buddhism to specific contemporary contexts, and is doing some innovative stuff. Whenever someone does that, it's bound to rub someone else the wrong way. But if he's truly helping people, and isn't going around collecting Rolls Royce's and women, if he's not using, exploiting or harming people, then -- more power to him.
Me?
What a disgrace! Laughable!
Maybe I need some zen?
Sounds a little . . . [insert judgement]
:buck: