More food for thought

Stormer

Today I was at my high school play rehearsal and I noticed a few people on the stage stomping around with very exaggerated motions. I thought this was odd so i walked over to them and asked what they were doing.

They replied by telling me very simply 'killing flies'. Now I have been following, or at least attempting to follow, the Eightfold Path for about a year at this point. Somewhere along the way I realized that randomly killing insects was a baltant violation of the 1st Percept and the 5th step of the Eightfold Path. I was horrified that I had taken probably thousands of lives.

Now, I'm just trying to be over dramatic over killing flies but its the idea. Just randomly murdering a living thing when you could expend the same amount of energy by releasing it outside.

Anyway, they were 'killing flies' and I was stunned by this. I had forgotten that others just outright kill them. I did everything in my power short of tackling them to get them to stop but they did not. Now there are several hundred bodies of flies on our stage.

Im not claiming to be a perfect person but I do try pretty hard to abide by the rules where I even notice they are being violated. Does any one else do this? Save 'insignificant' lives I mean?

anataman

Are you aware of Jainism?

When I started out at university I lived next to the most beautiful asian woman you could imagine - i am not joking, I was smitten, and she new it and I did not hide it from her. We had a close 'relationship' that was actually a 'non-relationship' if you get what I am saying!' She was training to be a doctor and we spent some time together having serious discussions, and all I wanted to do was bed her!

However, I learnt about her religion, and serious practiotioners sweep the floor as they walk ahead to stop killing insects. The ultimate thing about being a doctor is you use antibiotics and that is bacterial genocide on a massive scale. At the end of the year she confided in me that she was not happy to become a doctor and changed courses to become a lawyer.

She taught me a lot about the world did that Jain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

BhikkhuJayasara

just my humble opinion.. There is a difference between following the precepts yourself, and trying to push someone else to do them as well, or even trying to lecture. What matters most is what YOU do, not what everyone else does.

Beings die, in a variety of ways, every second of every day, sometimes by the acts of other beings. This has been going on since beings have existed, in all the world systems in all the universes and planes of existence. You cannot make a lifetime out of trying to save every being you come across, it will get you nowhere but frustrated.

if anything, I would have sympathy and empathy for those who kill other beings, if you feel the aversion towards the persons and their acts of harming while they are killing the beings, give them metta instead.

robot

Sometimes you have to grin and bear it.
Yesterday I found myself at a place that had a variety of fish in pens. I was shown them by a young fellow who tossed some food to them. I am a fisherman and I'm always interested in fish. I have also done live fishing for the Asian market in the past, so I am somewhat calloused about how people deal with their catch.
In one of the pens they had two sea turtles. Maybe 40-60 lbs each. Those poor things were also subject to the indignity of being hand fed. They were destined for the pot as well. All I could do at the time is appreciate the experience of being there and seeing them up close like that.
Even if I were inclined to comment on the cruelty of it all which I never would, the language barrier would have prevented it.
Most people who kill things unnecessarily are not inclined to accept criticism for it. They have their reasons.
Everyone has to go stomping through their own world, making their own choices about what they kill or avoid killing.

Hamsaka

This is a most personal decision/dilemma. A week ago, I was spinning some yarn and over the top of one of the bobbins came a magnificently huge spider, leg span about four inches across (looked like four feet to my adrenal glands). He moseyed on, unconcerned, crawled under my couch and now I imagine he's just under my rear end or about to crawl over my foot. He's a spider hunter, not poisonous. I try to preserve the spider webs that grow across a window corner, and put plenty of bugs outside. But I ruthlessly murder fleas and house flies. I've got to draw the line somewhere. I live on a farm, and the fly situation gets downright hazardous to the health of the animals and humans. As for fleas, too many bites cause health problems. I murder them knowingly and with full awareness of what I'm doing.

What I hear you saying in the OP is how much it hurts to witness the killing of living beings. That pain is terrible, I don't have a handle on it yet. I'll take the suggestion for sending metta (thank you for that). I'll be sending just as much or more to myself.

We in the west have been conditioned by Christianity, to take precepts as 'commandments' rather than integrating them into an ethical 'whole', which is a dynamic process, not a set of concrete steps. We don't eat unless we take the life of something already alive. Now, we are aware of it, it is a fact of existence in this world. The actions that result from that personal ethical process will be your (my, our) responsibility and karma.

Gassho
LG

lobster

I wish that Jain had become a microbe murdering doctor rather than a spider. We have sufficient lawyers. [apologies to any good legals, such as the deceased Christmas Humphries)
Reality v ahimsa. Idealism v samsara. Jain nuns do not bathe ever for fear of microbe genocide.

Please. :screwy:
http://jaindoctors.org/about-us/vision-and-mission

We do not have to be unnecessarily cruel where a choice exists. We do make choices. During the summer we had a fruit fly visitation. Constantly clearing their points of attraction, the fruit and veg recycling kitchen bin and the honey and jam cupboard helped. They are not dangerous. Nor are any UK spiders. Out they go. No need to kill.
Our old drains get blocked. I occasionally put caustic soda down them to prevent blockage. I am sure this effects the spiders who live down from the drains under the manhole cover.

I am the bringer of death.

Sell your insect killing death wagon? (car)

When others rain death on stage, rather than moving the production whilst the Jain 'extermination'/insect relocation service is contacted and paid for by donation, as the most expensive ahimsa service available, what do we do?
Well I suppose we can gather up the bodies and ensure they are given a Buddhist burial. Which may be a little crazy but it shows respect.
http://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/naturalburial

OM MANI PEME HUM

poptart

There's a reason some species proliferate in their millions. A great deal of natural wastage is built into the equation. If they all survived it would upset the balance. Would you like to live in a world full of flies?
And it's not just antibiotics that kill microbes. Your body's own antibodies do the exact same thing. I'm afraid we kill without ever choosing to, just to survive.