Upadana is the Pali word that's generally translated as "addiction," "attachment" or "clinging," and which can also mean "the act of taking sustenance" (which is why clinging is often described as the feeding habits of the mind). In MN 9, clinging is defined as:Craving for sensuality, here, means the desire for sensual objects. Craving for becoming means the desire for the formation of states or realms of being that are not currently happening, while craving for non-becoming means the desire for the destruction or halting of any that are. "Passion and delight," here, is apparently a synonym for the "desire and passion" for the five aggregates that constitutes clinging/sustenance [III/H/ii].
Much like the Greek philosopher Heraclitus, who we're told in Plato's dialogue Cratylus believed that all things flow and nothing stands (401d), the Buddha observed the characteristic of impermanence that's inherent to all conditional things as well. In Buddhist philosophy, all things that are conditional, or in other words all things that arise from causes and conditions, are seen to be impermanent, subject to cessation, to dissolution. In the discourses of the Buddha that are preserved in the Pali Canon, this idea is presented in numerous ways, with the basic formula being, "Whatever is subject to arising is all subject to cessation" (SN 56.11). Everything in this world is in a state of flux, i.e., nothing in this world remains unchanged, and it's precisely because of this characteristic of existence that attachment gives rise to suffering."And what is clinging, what is the origin of clinging, what is the cessation of clinging, what is the way leading to the cessation of clinging? There are these four kinds of clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rituals and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. With the arising of craving, there is the arising of clinging. With the cessation of craving, there is the cessation of clinging. The way leading to the cessation of clinging is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration."
i would suggest Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation in his new SN, which translates this as "suffering about change". suffering does not result from change unless there is attachment.Jason said:The Buddha detailed three types of suffering, one of which is called viparinama-dukkha—the suffering that results from change.
there is a leap here from attachment (9th link of D.O.) to aging-death-sorrow-lamentation, pain, grief & despair (12th link of D.O.)Jason said:This particular form of suffering isn't as obvious as the suffering experienced in the form of physical pain, but it's a sense of sorrow that one experiences when the moments of happiness, moments of sensual gratification and pleasure, fail to last.
the Nakulapita Sutta may also be referred to. it clearly distinguishes between attachment & change. the Nakulapita Sutta advises there is change with dukkha & change without dukkhaWallyB said:viparinama-dukkha means "suffering about change", i.e., when the mind obsesses about change, loss, etc
it is best to let go of attachment to translators. it is suffering "about" change. there is no such thing in experienceable reality as suffering "of" change. when the clouds in the sky change, there is no suffering (unless we have craving for & attachment to a sunny day)person said:My understanding of the suffering of change, or about change.
:thumbsup: same if you substitute satisfactory instead of unsatisfactory - in my mind this fits as attachment is the only part of the equation that is in our control (and manipulating it does not affect the overall balance of the equation) - thus it is the only part that truly leads to suffering in us (as it is the part that we can change to eliminate suffering)person said:if we understand impermanent & unsatisfactory things cannot satisfy us permanently, there will be no suffering (or craving or attachment) in relation to inherently unsatisfactory things
Which is the first of the twelve links. I think that if you start to break the chain then subsquently the other links soon do not arise.misecmisc1 said:@jason: Thanks for this post.
My understanding is : the root of all problems is the ignorance (avidya - absence of knowledge ) in the wrong belief of 'I' at the first place. If this wrong view of 'I' is removed, then all attachments and aversions automatically will be removed.
My understanding of Buddha's teachings of DO: the beauty of DO is in the fact that if any one of the 12 factors are:ThailandTom said:
Which is the first of the twelve links. I think that if you start to break the chain then subsquently the other links soon do not arise.misecmisc1 said:@jason: Thanks for this post.
My understanding is : the root of all problems is the ignorance (avidya - absence of knowledge ) in the wrong belief of 'I' at the first place. If this wrong view of 'I' is removed, then all attachments and aversions automatically will be removed.
I think either translation is sufficient as long as the context is clear.WallyB said:
i would suggest Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation in his new SN, which translates this as "suffering about change".Jason said:The Buddha detailed three types of suffering, one of which is called viparinama-dukkha—the suffering that results from change.
Certainly, hence my statement, "Everything in this world is in a state of flux, i.e., nothing in this world remains unchanged, and it's precisely because of this characteristic of existence that attachment gives rise to suffering." No attachment, no suffering.suffering does not result from change unless there is attachment.
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