I sometimes feel as my interest in Buddhism causes me more suffering? :( Pls read on..

zenmyste

Its a really strange one but I feel like before Buddhism came along in my life, i was fine..

Im not intirely sure what made me become spiritual and interested in buddhism.
I never used to be spiritual at all or into meditation etc etc..

All i can remember from years ago was; being interested in writing in my diary and was always a fan of diary format books like like 'marcus aurelius's meditations' (self help thoughts)

Then i somehow became fascinated by japanese art which then introduced me to Taoism and then ZEN then obviously buddhism..

Then i became fascinated by MONKS
I was really interested how they live their lifes. and the kind of simplicity that shines off them.

Then i really wanted to meet them.

Ive travelled to thailand few times just to be around the monks.. (i could just watch them all day)

Then id always be on the internet looking for buddhist monks memoirs.. again id be fascinated reading their journey as a novice to master

Im going Nepal soon for 3 weeks, again just to be around the spiritual side of it all..
Im from UK but LOVE asian countires .. Its as if they LIVE in a way WE DONT. or CANT
Or as if they know something in which we dont..

I just love being around the Buddhist temples and being around monks or reading about monks or even watching buddhist/zen documentaries on youtube..

Anyway, im not one of these people who a seeking outwards as i believe that no one can give me enlightenment but ME..
But you might remember from another post that i told you i have over 200 + books on buddhism and zen..

This is what Buddhism has done to me, I want to read more and more and more.. (but not necessarily to gain more knowledge) .. Its literally just because i love it and because its become 'my' 'thing'.. my interest....

But my problem is im always searching for something else, another book, another great Blog, another Diary of a zen master, another trip to asia, and its doing my head in..

I once read a zen book which had the quote; ''To seek is to suffer...''
And thats how i feel. My seeking is causing me suffering.
I even meditated regularly but doesnt help with my seeking to find the best work on zen or best ZEN PAINTING, or best POEM etc etc..

I want to get back to the old me
Someone who just got up in th morning and lift my life normally without this ''searching'' for more feeling

Do you think there is a cure for me???
Anyone got an answer here ?

Sometimes im Great and dont suffer and I feel like ''ahhh im OK now,.... But then the feeling will ware off and im back 'seeking' the next best book etc etc..

Thanks in advance..

federica

You're seeking fulfilment outside of yourself, when all the time, you are carrying it with you wherever you go, whatever you read.
You're looking for 'an answer' but you're looking in the wrong place.
Hence the frustration, the desire for more, more, more.....

you just need to Be Still.

how

I would suggest taking that meditation out for some exercise. It won't be of much use to you if you don't let it show you what's what, off your meditation seat.
I have never seen a form of seeking that didn't fit into the 4 noble truths explanation of suffering. Meditation, practised broadly enough, should help illuminate the path that's right for you, that will point towards sufferings end.

zenknight

Thank you for your honesty Zenmyste. You said in your post you just want to go back to your old life because you were fine before Buddhism. But the real truth is that that's just an illusion. When things go well in our lives everything seems OK but something is going to happen and you will not be fine again. It might be as simple as losing a job or it might be more serious like an illness. When that something happens, you will be glad that you have studied Buddhism because it gives you a solid training that you can count on when the time comes. I too have many Buddhist books but I am more about the practice now a days. Reading about meditation is very different than practicing meditation. This realization didn't happen over night but gradually. I am sure the same thing will happen to you. I still enjoy reading the sutras but I can take my time with them by practicing one for a week or a month. Be more patient with yourself and with your practice.

Jeffrey

Your suffering is also a reason to seek. Once you open the door you can never give it up. Though you can have a rest. Buddha will eventually call you.

It could be that your task in this life is to hear and accumulate many teachings.

I think you have a tension that you aren't doing enough? Make reading a joy. Another lifetime you can meditate or get devotional. Just being pleased by those monks is part of the joy of your path.

Then there is a separate issue of being a collector. That can be a disease to certain people, but probably not you??

zenmyste

Thanks guys..

I often wonder what is suffering though.
Although i say i suffer, im not fully sure what suffering is.

The feeling i get is a 'seeking' for something else in Buddhism..
Seeking for that ONE particular book or diary from one specific MASTER

Ive often thought the monk life would suit me but with having a young family to raise etc etc i cannot do that..

I just love the monk life and im always looking for another MONK BOOK or BLOG..

(im just repeating myself now sorry! )

But like i said; sometimes it doesnt feel like im suffering.

Im just looking for more and more because i find the buddhist way Fascinating..

zenmyste

Your suffering is also a reason to seek.

what if suffering is a reason to seek but its the 'seeking' which is making me suffer?

What then??

how

There is talking about the path & walking the path. Life is stressful whether having a young family to raise or training as a monk. If your monk love is motivated by householder stress then that's just the grass that's greener on the other side of the fence.

Do you have someone taking care of your family right now that's wondering a lot about your monk love & your 3 week trip to Nepal.
There maybe lots of reasons for suffering right now.

Jeffrey

Your suffering is also a reason to seek.

what if suffering is a reason to seek but its the 'seeking' which is making me suffer?

What then??

Avoiding is the cause of suffering. Squaring up and seeing what is there is the path forward. Have you started a meditation practice? All the words in the dictionary are worth less than a meditation practice.

Sabre

Hi!

I can't say I have personal experience with this, but here are some suggestions.

Maybe see if you can somehow transform your interest for Buddhist books and external information into an interest in your own mind. And that search for the 'one book' will be the search for the Dhamma, the truth, the way out of suffering.

The mind has been my main interst for years, and investigating that makes me happy very often.

You can then still read a nice book or biography from time to time, but it won't drag you away because the direct practice provides you a foundation. I don't know how much you meditate, but seeing you have time to read about half a book a day, maybe consider reading half a book a week and spending the time you win on meditation.

Perhaps also consider keeping away from discussion boards and really dive into your own practice.

Have you ever done a meditation retreat? I would advice it. Some centers also ask you to not read any books. That could be especially interesting for you to try out.

Metta!

zenmyste

There maybe lots of reasons for suffering right now.

no. Im not saying im suffering and dont know why...

Theres only one reason why i am and that reason is my relationship to buddhism itself..

Im always seeking more and more buddhist stuff. books, visits to temples, documentaries, Art, etc (only because i like it)
But my like for it is doing my head in (if that makes sense)

(its not like im seeking enlightenment because im sick of suffering..)

Its actually the opposite. Im suffering because im into buddhism which says we can achieve enlightenment.

But before buddhism, i was fine.. LOL..

PrairieGhost

Hi zenmyste

Although i say i suffer, im not fully sure what suffering is.

It's the distance from love that we experience when we do what we want rather than what is to be done.

Jeffrey

Well there is your answer. Try giving up Buddhism and see if you are happier.

Whatever you do be light approach, not angry with Buddhism. I think later you will want to come back.

zenmyste

zenmyste

Although i say i suffer, im not fully sure what suffering is.

It's the distance from love that we experience when we do what we want rather than what is to be done.

but i do love what i do..
i love everything about buddhism.
i love when im reading a buddhist book
i love meditating..
i love my life etc etc

but thats my problem, I think im into buddhism too much (if thats makes sense)

i love reading about buddhist monks that it makes me want to go and buy another BOOK, then find another BLOG and find a painting of Japanese ZEN art because it so peaceful.

Then i read a biography of a zen master and love the serenity it brings.

I love the thought of living as a hermit monk in the mountians, meditating, gardening, writing poetry, and Knowing the way to serenity..

I just love the whole simplicity that buddhism brings..

zenmyste

Well there is your answer. Try giving up Buddhism and see if you are happier.

Whatever you do be light approach, not angry with Buddhism. I think later you will want to come back.

Id definitely wouldnt be angry with buddhism..

But again, yes ive always thought if that is the path i should take. (remove buddhism from my life and see what happens)

Its gonna be hard though because its as if ive become too 'attached' to the body of Buddhism.

Its abit ironic that im attached to Buddhism when buddhism teaches me to not get too attached.. 'LOL' Its crazy!

RichardH

Zen dilettantism is unsatisfying.

PrairieGhost

Hi zenmyste,

The difficulty is that our past actions are expressed in the here and now as a momentum that is called karma. Right at this moment we are present and therefore free to choose to harmonise that momentum, but we tend to tell ourselves it is too difficult, so generally we take a slow, steady path. Zen has techniques for sudden enlightenment, but you might have to find a master. Sudden enlightenment may feel like taking a big risk; they say 'jumping off the 100 foot pole'. Or you can keep reading and meditating and practising mindfulness, it's your call.

The frustration you feel is just the momentum talking. Let it talk, it can't stop you.

how

When something you love leads towards suffering then somewhere the ego is involved.
This issue is not about Buddhism or love but how you are relating to them.
The Buddhas solutions for dealing with suffering (4 noble truths/8 fold path) only work when lived. Is there a way that the stimulation you receive from Buddhism can be redirected towards digesting and manifesting those 4/8 truths?

seeker242

Anyway, im not one of these people who a seeking outwards as i believe that no one can give me enlightenment but ME..

But my problem is im always searching for something else, another book, another great Blog, another Diary of a zen master, another trip to asia,

I don't know but it seems like you are saying opposite things there.

karasti

Make arrangements to stay in a monastery long term. Perhaps it isn't that you are too attached to Buddhism but too attached to your "normal" life. Maybe you'd be happier (if it's possible) giving that up in favor of Buddhism instead of the other way around. Perhaps you enjoy it as much as you do because it's time for you to teach it to others.

how

@Karasti
did you miss zenmyste's

I've often thought the monk life would suit me but with having a young family to raise etc etc i cannot do that.

or would you still advise him to stay in a monastery long term?

karasti

no, I missed that part, sorry, which is why I said "if it is possible." No, I don't advocate for people deserting their families to live other types of lives. But there are still possibilities of getting involved in local groups or monastaries on a volunteer basis, or teaching and still being able to be an active family person.

pegembara

@ zenmyste

What you have is a "good" form of attachment ie. the attachment that will lead to non attachment as the final goal.
So what is the problem?

Cinorjer

Ah, for the good old days. I, too, sometimes long for the old days, when all I cared about was myself and I could blame my personal problems on other people and feeling good was the ultimate goal in my life, easily accomplished.

How simple and nice my life was, back then. Or maybe it wasn't that simple and nice. Maybe I just don't remember it the same way I experienced it at the time. I know there was some reason I jumped at the chance to learn the Dharma. I couldn't have been that satisfied, or I would have stayed the way I was.

@zenmyste, there is a terrible, terrible secret to the Dharma that none of these enlightened people in your books like to admit. The Dharma has a price. To open your eyes to the suffering of the world is to SEE the suffering of the world. It's not a pretty sight. But, once we open our eyes, we can't shut them again. We know it's out there. To leave the comfort of your illusions and begin the journey to a better place means you have to take a long, difficult journey. How else is it supposed to work?

Personally, it sounds to me like you're getting close to the top of that mountain. There is a famous Zen story of a person who, when he finally realized enlightenment, took all his books out to the yard and burnt them.

The Dharma first gives us knowledge and our daily practice gives us skill. But knowledge and skill are not understanding. You have shelves full of knowledge and years of practice to gain skill. You've worked hard for both, and you should be proud of what you've accomplished.

When the time is ripe to let go of them and just be the Buddha you are, you'll know. There's nothing stopping you. The books are not your enemy. Your desire to be different than you are is not your enemy. They're your tools. You don't have to burn or throw away your tools when they're no longer needed. You can simply let them gather dust. You're too busy being a Buddha.

Hope this helps.

xabir

"One who seeks dharma outside is on an externalist path" - well known saying, "mind is buddha" - zen saying, "one who seeks me in sights and sounds is on a deviant path and will not see me" - diamond sutra

Your quest should be to realize your real nature. Everything else is not so important.

AMH

Hmm, so would you still be fascinated by buddhism if you didn't read any books? if you didn't think about monks? If you just did the dishes?

When you are reading a book about buddhism are you just reading. Are you feeling your butt in the chair or the itch in your eye or noticing the way the words are shaped on the page? Or are you reading and imagining a wonderful buddhism that is not right here, right now, right you?

The person who said the dharma has a price is correct. You will be frustrated and seeking all the time in the books and the travels and the thinking. or you can be in your house, in your life, in your job, right here, right now. It is wonderfully boring at times. Soo challenging to not run off intellectually into another book that sounds even more fabulous, and instead just sit. Just eat an orange when you are eating an orange. Just listen to a person speak without thinking about what you will say, and instead noticing how their face changes and their hands move while they talk. Just drive when you drive. Just look at the homeless person with compassion as another human being. The suffering you are feeling comes from doing other things than living the dharma, as we practice for years and years it becomes painful to not live the dharma, and painful to live it.

basically would you still love buddhism if you were only where you were, right here, right now.

driedleaf

I had a lot of books too, but I got most of them for free from monasteries etc. After reading them I passed them on to others. Sometimes reaching shore does not mean our journey is completely over, there could many other streams to cross ahead, yet we still should not carry the raft on our shoulders.

Glow

Sometimes it's necessary to take a break from sprituality, a "Buddhism fast." For several months: abstain from meditation, from reading about Buddhism, from posting on Buddhist forums, etc. It's a beautiful way to clarify your practice. That which is essential to your practice will draw you back. That which is extraneous and there is a lot of extraneous stuff) will fall away.

Sabre

Sometimes it's necessary to take a break from sprituality, a "Buddhism fast." For several months: abstain from meditation, from reading about Buddhism, from posting on Buddhist forums, etc. It's a beautiful way to clarify your practice. That which is essential to your practice will draw you back. That which is extraneous and there is a lot of extraneous stuff) will fall away.

I wouldn't advice abstaining from meditation, but apart from that, I think this advice is very good. Just chill for a while. Too much knowledge, too much input, can make everything fuzzy. We need time to process everything. And because meditation is a good processor, that's why I wouldn't advice dropping that.

But that's something you can check out for yourself. @zenmyste

cacto

Forget the books and just remember the 8foldpath and do it. Be compassionate with everyone and stay in the present moment. Being good and acting good with people feels good.

DairyLama

Do you think there is a cure for me???

There may not be! I think once you've started to see things in a different way it's very difficult to go back. Something about trying to put genies back in bottles, or trying to repack Pandoras box...

SattvaPaul

You wanna be like this guy? I sometimes do. But remember how he ended up?



(I hope you don't mind a little joke here, @zenmyste).

zenmyste

You wanna be like this guy? I sometimes do. But remember how he ended up?



(I hope you don't mind a little joke here, @zenmyste).

BRILLIANT.. haha

This clip sums it all up i suppose.

Matrix - my favourite movie of all time.

Great clip. I know exactly where he is coming from.

dharma

I used to be in that phase for awhile. Once your meditation takes off and contentment arise from within , your mind is fulfilled and doesn't have the need to read too much or seek for things from the outside. The path is more pleasant.