Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
For those of you who still believe in Jesus Christ..
vlrox
Explorer
Going off the "anyone still a christian" post, if you believe in Jesus, what do you believe about him. I personally, and i could be way off, but i think he was a very influentual spiritual leader. Do i think he created us and the universe? No. Do think this single man knows what everyone is doing and thinking and he has our life planned out? No. I believe in science, nature, big bang theory, I believe jesus christ is like the buddha in many ways, however i accept them both as men not as Gods. I do not follow any christian beliefs though. I stick to 100% Buddhism. I hope this makes sense. I am curious as to what others think of this?
0
Comments
Do I think he was the son of God? Only if God means the same as Dharmakaya, and we're all sons and daughters (more technically we are the Father itself). Perhaps he exemplifies what it means to be truly human, to really know that you're a part of a unified reality, and this is what a true son or daughter knows. It would be the same as the realization of emptiness.
Was he enlightened? I very much would think he at least entered the stream, dissolving his view of self, and his view of God then shifted from the traditional Jewish view and became something closer to Emptiness/Mind/Dharmakaya. The God he speaks of is certainly much different than that of the Old Testament. If he were more enlightened, his teachings would have been even more different from their Jewish counterparts. This is all just speculation of course. He might not have been enlightened in this way, but still have been a very selfless and loving person that had great empathy.
(I'd recommend the Jefferson Bible, after having just read it. Only 84 pages or so, solely concerned with the life and teachings of Jesus without extraneous material.)
The Buddha for me is a collection of words that describe a life path to sufferings cessation. The path & the Buddha are experiences. If their authenticity is not experiential for you, all you have is a lot of dusty pages from eons past.
The accuracy of the who, what, when, why & where of a historical Buddha or Christ would be a surprising given how poorly humans maintain even today's truth.
Regardless of historical accuracy, one can live in the realm of story tellers or you can be that very story. One can endlessly titillate the mind with possibilities or be the beating heart of the experience.
Telly provided a wonderful speaker on comparitive religions and eastern philosophy or so-called religions. I suggest do some study! Find out for yourself
I think that humans have more heavenly origins than what some scientists believe today. I do not think we are at all separate from nature or from animals... but in my mind, humans seem to have originated separately from animals, although similarly to them. For example, the canon describes abhasvara devas who came to live on the earth, and gradually became grosser and more like humans today. This makes much more sense to me than: "Well on most planets animal life keeps evolving and some of the lineages adapt more intelligently until human beings emerge from a 3 percent genetic difference."
This also makes me feel like original human beings are largely responsible for the generation of life. However, not humans as we are today.
She would say it doesn't matter how much you admire his ministry, all that was just to provide evidence of his Godhood and fulful the prophesies. It's not the message Jesus taught, but the act of sacrifice on the cross that matters.
She and I don't talk about our comparative practices much.
I think that those who say we descended from ape-like ancestors aren't looking back far enough, that we're actually descended from the most simple and basic life, just like every other life-form.
Why, what do you think?
www.bibleufo.com
http://tinyurl.com/9k4dd4q
Personally, I agree that both Christ & Buddha were great teachers & examples of how-2-live!
Cheers
www.bibleufo.com
http://tinyurl.com/9k4dd4q
Personally, I agree that both Christ & Buddha were great teachers & examples of how-2-live!
Cheers
http://www.galactic-server.com/rampa/rahermit1.html
It's a great book if you ever see it 4 sale anywhere ...
http://johnsmallman2.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/you-are-all-love-incarnate/
http://www.highexistence.com/10-epic-quotes-from-conversations-with-god/
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/9374.Neale_Donald_Walsch
http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-With-God-Uncommon-Dialogue/dp/0399142789
Enjoy!
I feel it's entirely possible that Jesus rehashed a few Buddhist concepts that were alien to the Hebrew mentality. Jesus lived about 500 years after Buddha. There are about 20 years of Jesus' life that are unaccounted for in the gospels. Possibly he studied Buddhism in Asia or Egypt. Even the gospels say he traveled to Egypt as a youth.
That would explain why there are occasional jewels of wisdom interspersed with utter nonsense, with which either he or later writers entirely diluted any original freshness.
Here is an interesting website for further reading: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/buddha.html
http://www.healyourlife.com/author-neale-donald-walsch/2011/09/wisdom/inspiration/there-is-another-way
Enjoy!
God is present whether we accept or reject His love. However, you are attempting to disprove God because there is suffering in the world. To assume that answers to prayers must always come in the form of external signs or miracles is a very shallow understanding of the internal spiritual life. Perhaps during these tragedies you mentioned God was providing strength, peace, and inner stillness even unto death.
We ought not to concern ourselves with the judging and condemning of others lest we find ourselves in like circumstances and have wasted our time doing that instead of preparing ourselves.
I think for me that situation would be beyond my measure, and it serves as a reminder that I definitely need more attention to what’s going on in my own heart. How about you?
@jazzman
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and perhaps the form of Christianity you were associated with could not fulfill your spiritual needs. Keep in mind that same persons you are judging in a desperate time of your need could be there to help you and not think twice about doing so.
Also, to assume that the development of the various traditions of Buddhism was not influenced by other spiritual sources as well is suspect in my view. For example there was a Jewish presence in India around the time of the Buddha though in a limited capacity, and one only has to examine more closely the various Mahayana doctrines and deities to see some connection with Christianity such as the myth of Amitabha and the Trikaya. The Buddha certainly did not speak of these things.
Also, Buddhism did not arrive in Tibet until about the 5th century, and I have heard speculation that the rise of the practice of Dzogchen may have been influenced by sojourning Christian mystics. That would be a fascinating study.
Those situations are not a reminder for me to pay more attention to what's going on in my own heart, which I trust and hope is doing its job of pumping blood, I think we are guilty enough of turning a blind eye to the suffering of others... It makes us feel better to call it God's will, but the suffering caused by the hands of others is exactly that, and to say that a child being raped is experiencing God's peace is an evil thing to say.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2012/09/04/imaginary-presidents-and-imaginary-gods-the-real-empty-chair-effect/
Very interesting. I'd go so far as to say "brilliant".
By contrast, it is my understanding that the working premise of Buddhism is inquiry and discovery, like science -- in which intelligence is our greatest asset.
So wherever Buddhism is tainted by Christianity, it is a detriment to Buddhism.
That would be an incorrect understanding. Christianity is not of blind faith though it is possible to approach anything that way, and sometimes to devastating effects.
That is a misunderstanding of God's will. Perhaps you can provide more details regarding your definition.
You can't lump all Christians together. Even back in the 1970s, when I was earning two degrees in the Geosciences, all of my geology professors (whether they be paleontologists, glaciologists, structural geologists, or other categories) believed in evolution and believed in a roughly 4.5-5 billion year-long geologic time scale. Yet, they were virtually all active Christians who attended church (some were Catholic, others were Protestant) fairly regularly. And, throughout my life, the majority of Christians I have known accepted the basic premise of evolution and virtually all don't believe anything approaching Archbishop Usher's "proof" that the earth was created in 4004 B.C. In fact, most laugh at such silly thoughts.
You are also confusing "formal religion" from "personal religion". We all know what the Pope says about birth control, as one good example. Yet, in a recent poll, 58% of all American Catholics agree employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception, and 98% of all American women use birth control at some point in their life. In another poll of just Catholics, 82% accept birth control as being morally acceptable. Yet, in terms of your heresy comment, I'm not aware of any American Catholics in recent years who have been excommunicated from the Catholic Church. And, similarly, in terms of Buddhism, from my perspective, based on what is written in this forum, I would say that very few people on this forum live a strict (or would the term conventional be better) Mayhayanan or Theravadan lifestyle.
In terms of Buddhism and science, while -- as a trained scientist -- I might say Buddhism is somewhat more open to scientific inquiry, there's an awfully lot in the Buddhist scriptures which are no more supported by science than are things in the Bible. There are members of this forum who will laugh at Christian heaven and hell, but who fully believe in multiple levels of Buddhist heavens and hells. That's not a scientific perspective.
I suppose religion is an individual journey, and I would be remiss to categorize people according to the belief system they favor.
All I know of Buddhism is what I have read, and it appears more open to inquiry and personal experimentation than Christianity -- where you either believe Jesus saved you or you go to hell, end of story.
Yes I do know well-meaning and loving Christians. However, it almost seems to me as though they are good-hearted people DESPITE the dogma they adhere to.
Why criticize others beliefs if they don't agree with yours?
Jesus was a good man, as was Buddha. There are many great teachers in history that we can all learn from. Each taught in their own way to those that would listen.
Here is a quote from Lama Yeshe that I really think sums it all up
If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~
It doesn't state whether or not you should be concerned with who is criticizing others' beliefs. Yet you apparently thought it illustrates acceptance of others' beliefs. It doesn't mention others' beliefs. You posted the quote, I didn't.
Actually it is a positive scientific observation to witness where belief systems limit others' abilities to transcend the self, which is the whole goal of spirituality. If I wish to be aware of the pitfalls along the way to true enlightenment, I need to be able to discern them both in myself and others. In fact, when I observe others I am observing myself too. So criticism is a valid attribute of intelligence. Doubt and criticism are the only way to sharpen intelligence.
Now if that is not a perfect example of blind faith in ridiculous dogma, then someone is intentionally or unintentionally blind.
Now if that is not a perfect example of blind faith in ridiculous dogma, then someone is intentionally or unintentionally blind.
Jazzman, that means nothing. Go to any Buddhist temple (at least the one's I've been to) and announce that Buddha was not enlightened and you're not apt to be appreciated, either.
All one would learn from being criticized is how it feels to be belittled by another.
Which is not practicing love or compassion.
All one would learn from being criticized is how it feels to be belittled by another.
Which is not practicing love or compassion.
This is why it is so difficult to discuss religion and politics, people become so personally attached to their position, and it becomes sacred and off limits to criticism.
We can agree on that, but I wasn't implying that we wash our hands from what we do.
I can only speak as part of the Orthodox Church that its teachings are much more deep and far from what you suggest is Christian belief. It is a way of life and about transformation. The mysteries of the faith are revealed as continue your life long spiritual journey. Its about personal experience and not just information collecting.
We have a saying in the that “no sin goes unhidden”. What ever negative thoughts, words, and deeds that we may think insignificant or kept secret from others not only affects ourselves but others too, because we are all interconnected. How we think definitely determines our individual lives and community too.
When we see a tragedy as you described we are all responsible and accountable for it, because we too harbor negative attitudes. Being a former Buddhist I see no dichotomy in this understanding. It is shared belief.
If you are a Buddhist perhaps you can tell me why you believe in the teachings. Is there some kind of evidence or personal experiences that validate what you believe?