Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Do the people in your temple or neighbourhood look happy?

After reading the sutta below, I just wonder: Do the people in your temple or neighbourhood look happy?


Thus have I heard. At one time the Lord was staying near Savatthi, at the Jeta Grove in Anathapindika's monastery. Now when night was passing a certain devataa, lighting up the whole Jeta Grove with her surpassing beauty, approached the Lord. Having drawn near and prostrated herself she stood to one side.[1]

Standing there the devata said:
Those living in the forest, Peaceful and calm, of pure life, Eating but one meal a day: How is it they appear so radiant?

The Lord replied:
They sorrow not for what is past, They have no longing for the future, The present is sufficient for them: Hence it is they appear so radiant. By having longing for the future, By sorrowing over what is past, By this fools are withered up As a cut down tender reed.
DeepankarRenataJeffreychelaEnriqueSpain

Comments

  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    The people in my meditation centre are pretty damn grim. So serious. Serious, earnest meditators. Not cool.

    The lay-people at my local monastery are much happier, happy to talk to the monks, happy to be eating delicious dana lunch, just happy to be visiting a monastery.
    The monks are serene, if not happy. They don't laugh much but they seem pretty chilled and friendly.

    My neighbourhood is a high crime area. People do not greet each other on the street. Cars get trashed, and at night I often hear arguments and shouting from neighbours. The police helicopter is sometimes overhead.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    edited January 2013
    Does 'radiant' in that quote mean 'happy'? any views on the original text?
  • Over the temple here, they all very happy, always smiling and cool. They enjoying meditation while in group and during lunch, they chatting alot happily, sharing foods together, some prepared lunch for all to enjoy in full spirited joys. During the meditation session, so cool, walking meditation and sitting meditation, free and easy, no restriction if excusing themselves to the female/gent. The volunteers just ensuring help is always attended to in full of compassion and bliss.
  • I am not fooled by appearances. They are all Buddhas . . . . :thumbsup:
    DakiniBeej
  • Malay wedding having awesome islamic song and chanting. So blissful and lovely the couples and the islamic brothers and sisters are havimg so much joys preparing and cooking foods together for gracing the occasion. So much pleasantness all round. May all wonderfully joys as well.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    edited January 2013
    One of my Buddhist books is a book which has a quote for each day of the year, I read the quote for the 12th of Jan and it reads like this.
    'happiness lies in the smile, not in the object that inspired the smile.'

    Just thought I would share as it has some relevance :)
    Bunkschelariverflow
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    At the Chinese temple I went to before, the monk who lead the practice sessions was incredibly dour and seemed like he was going to fall asleep at any moment. The rest of the sangha was friendly.

    At the Zen groups I attend now, it's pretty "serious," but people are friendly when you actually talk to them. I guess the unhappy looks on some faces could be because one of the groups is a drop-in type thing and there are lots of newbies and they're just self-conscious about meditating.
  • in london, i've been to a couple of dharma centres and they looked too serious and advanced for me so i didn't go back. It's not that they weren't nice, it's just that they didn't click with me. if i wanted to look at a roomful of grim looking people, i'd just go to the bank.
    BrianWonderingSeeker
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator

    in london, i've been to a couple of dharma centres and they looked too serious and advanced for me so i didn't go back. It's not that they weren't nice, it's just that they didn't click with me. if i wanted to look at a roomful of grim looking people, i'd just go to the bank.

    I know that feeling. It's like, "This is supposed to be a Buddhist temple? It feels like a funeral home..."

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    in london, i've been to a couple of dharma centres and they looked too serious and advanced for me so i didn't go back. It's not that they weren't nice, it's just that they didn't click with me. if i wanted to look at a roomful of grim looking people, i'd just go to the bank.

    If you want a really elated sangha, you should check out the Hare Krishnas :lol:

    In all seriousness though, you might want to find a group that's run by lay people; I've found that those tend to have a more laid-back, casual vibe. Ones that are official temples or zen centres or what have you tend to have some "hardcore" people there.
  • I went to a retreat at the Zen center in town last year. A lot of people came from out of town to hear Stephen Batchelor and his wife discuss the Dharma and lead meditations. Most of the crowd was retirement-age, and there were a few young people. The older folks were so dour! And not at all receptive to even a friendly "hello", let alone a conversation. I couldn't understand it. Fortunately, there were a few younger, energetic types who were enjoying themselves, and were fun to chat with.

    What this all means, I don't know--maybe nothing special. But I thought Dharma practice was about getting to joy, or at least equanimity. I think some people approach the Dharma as something to be studied, but to actually integrate it into everyday life may escape some people.
  • Superficiality is a natural inclination. A clown paints on a smile, jumps about and everyone of a child like disposition is happy-happy.
    Somebody wears robes and talks someberly in the prescribed manner and we lap up the platitudes. As we grow up a little we start to experience our own masking and become aware of it in others. If we develop in our practice, we learn to recognise awareness, happiness, sadness, suffering and the real condition of ourselves and others.
    A center, a speaker, a lama, an experience has what we require - if we are genuine, authentic and a learner. We might learn about our attitudes, our responses, our triggers, irrespective of the environment. Some people go to the supermarket and come back wiser and some spend their life in a secluded Himalayan monastery and remain ignorant.
    There is only one dharma centre. We are it.

    this message brought to you by Crusty S Lobster (clowning, juggling and enlightenment while you wait) :vimp:
    JeffreyBunksBeej
  • Brian said:

    It's interesting. When I lived in a middle-class, blue-collar, "white" suburb of Detroit, I would have answered this, "No...". Everybody sort of kept to themselves, they were sort of miserable and grumpy, and if you said "hello" to someone on the street, you may have gotten a dirty look.

    Now that I've moved into Detroit, a city with a much worse reputation than the place I used to live, everybody around me is happier. There are more down-and-out people, more homeless people, more people that don't look like me, but... they're happier. People smile. People laugh. People say hello.

    I am much happier here than I was there.

    Most probably I give a dirty look too if someone I don't know give a smile in the streets. I would think he or she is trying to get fresh!
  • @Dakini, not to poo poo the point you made, but a lot of times the inside is different from the outside. People could be in their 'cacoon' as Trungpa used to say and they are in their own world not open to talking. Maybe I am overthinking it, do you think? :)
  • I think, if folks in the temple don't seem happy, they're doing it wrong. The meditation and the simple lifestyle in the temple should unburden them enough that they radiate with happiness.

    Sure, life in the temple is serious business, but there's also moderation. Perhaps the unhappy ones have forgotten moderation.
  • The radiation of happiness lightens the interior aspect and may or may not be visible externally. Peoples assumption that the interior worth of a person is open to them is not necessarily true. Because people are so susceptible to appearance based judgements, they follow the alignment that fulfils their judgement. Is this really what we are like? Judging on appearance? :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Happy now?
  • Jeffrey said:

    @Dakini, not to poo poo the point you made, but a lot of times the inside is different from the outside. People could be in their 'cacoon' as Trungpa used to say and they are in their own world not open to talking. Maybe I am overthinking it, do you think? :)

    I don't know. It's not just that they looked unhappy, they were very stand-offish, not open to conversation. I think it was a long program for them, some would get tired, and nap during the day. But that doesn't explain everything. Could be that some of them were "cacooning", as you say, I guess.

  • perhaps happiness is overrated and we are just looking for the wrong thing. After all, buddhism is supposed to give us equanimity - which means no extremes of happiness or sadness. So that may explain why the temples are more sombre. I don't know.
  • Zero said:

    Does 'radiant' in that quote mean 'happy'? any views on the original text?

    If it is not happy, radiant could mean there is light coming out of the monks' head. You'd always see lights coming out of the heads of holy people, Buddhists or non-Buddhist. Funny, isn't it?
  • At the Chinese temple I went to before, the monk who lead the practice sessions was incredibly dour and seemed like he was going to fall asleep at any moment. The rest of the sangha was friendly.

    At the Zen groups I attend now, it's pretty "serious," but people are friendly when you actually talk to them. I guess the unhappy looks on some faces could be because one of the groups is a drop-in type thing and there are lots of newbies and they're just self-conscious about meditating.

    Maybe, it is natural to see unhappy people in temples. Why do you think they are there in the first place - if not to seek happiness.
    Invincible_summerlobster
  • chelachela Veteran
    Thich Nhat Hanh teaches to remember to smile because smiling brings a sense of joy. He says that when you feel upset or irritated, smile immediately. Even if you half-smile, you will feel a little better. I've been doing my best to practice this, and I think it's true.

    I have to sort of agree with @still_learning. Doesn't Buddhism teach that there is an end to suffering and a path to get there? How can anyone, knowing this, not feel a little joyful?
    Beej
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    edited March 2013
    @chela- i do this too! its almost a half laugh at myself for forgetting what i really am: boundless joy radiating from the beginningless cycle of awesomeness. :)
  • “Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy.” Thich Nhat Hanh
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Food for thought about smiling...
    “I went to this guy’s apartment afterward with the assistant medical examiner,” he told me. “The guy was in his thirties, lived alone, pretty bare apartment. He’d written a note and left it on his bureau. It said, ‘I’m going to walk to the bridge. If one person smiles at me on the way, I will not jump.’ ”
    -From a New York Times article on the epidemic of jumpers off of the Golden Gate Bridge

    But as a few others have pointed out... there's a difference between a true smile and a fake one. I've been to churches where everyone is all smiles and compliments, but I know for a fact that they don't appear that way the rest of the week. I imagine sanghas aren't exempt from the phenomenon, but I will say, with my experiences of the SGI... I really do think those people were for real happy. Day in and day out, no matter where they were, I saw other members enough to know that they weren't just pretending.

    But oh well, if you scowl to people on the street, you're likely to get a scowl back. If you smile to people on the street (whether it's because you're in a good mood or just being polite), you're likely to get a smile back (side note:aside from the *creeper smile). I've found that no matter where I live or work or whatever, if I go into it with a positive attitude, people will generally respond with positivity. As someone who has no hourly wage and only earns what kind of business I can scrounge up, I am very aware how much my attitude affects my income. People are drawn to positivity, it's quite amazing, really. I don't do very well when I'm in a bad mood.

    *I'm sure every lady on here will know what the 'creeper smile' is. It's basically the smile that a guy gives you on the street that makes you wonder if he has some sort of X-ray vision. "Undressing you with his eyes" is another common phrase. I don't return that smile because I don't want to give any false hope... and... ew. There should also probably be some sort of note that I am, obviously, a female so anyone I smile to is unlikely to interpret it as threatening, unlike what may happen with a man. Personally, I like it when guys tip their hats to me with a smile. It's polite and kind of debonair.
    riverflowInvincible_summerlobster
  • During my brief stay in New Zealand a few years ago and every time I have gone back to visit, I am amazed how--in comparison to my experiences in the southern U.S.--the differences in openness and friendliness are there. It was probably the only culture shock I had. Which isn't to say there are no frowners there-- but the ratio is very different I feel. It is all relative, but the difference is obvious to me (other U.S. Americans have noticed this difference too). It always takes me a few days to re-adjust coming and going both ways.

    I remember one day walking near the hospital in central Christchurch one afternoon and someone had scrawled onto the sidewalk in large letters: smile....

    On another note, I try to remind myself to not frown, especially when I am feeling stressed out. I don't mean smiling outright, but loosening up the corners of the mouth ever so slightly that they are upturned. It results not in a full-on smile, but it isn't a frown either. I really believe it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile. The difference is perceptible.

    And I think that it is a two way street with moods and the body that expresses that mood-- it can work the other way around, where loosening up on that almost-smile actually helps to counteract stress.

    I also remind myself to do this during zazen instead of getting tense in the face, loosen up those muscles-- this tension from frowning is not just in the jaw but in the muscles of the temple and the forehead. It really does have a calming effect.

    Try it--it works!
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    @zombiegirl - I find it very unfortunate that social relationships in this day and age are so predicated on sex that a man can't even be friendly to a woman (and vice versa) without the thought going through one/both parties' heads "Are they hitting on me?"

    I guess I'm a guy and I don't fully "get it," but it's still ridiculous that social norms appear to dictate that I can't be friends with most women so long as I have a girlfriend.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited March 2013

    @zombiegirl - I find it very unfortunate that social relationships in this day and age are so predicated on sex that a man can't even be friendly to a woman (and vice versa) without the thought going through one/both parties' heads "Are they hitting on me?"

    I guess I'm a guy and I don't fully "get it," but it's still ridiculous that social norms appear to dictate that I can't be friends with most women so long as I have a girlfriend.

    @Invincible_summer I don't know that it's social norms, more like experience. Women who work in jobs where you have to be kind and nurturing tend to get hit on a lot (think: waitress, nurse, massage therapist, etc.) It's just the way it is, being nice is frequently interpreted as "You have a chance!"... but it's not necessarily the guy's fault. Heterosexual society still dictates that the man is supposed to hit on the girl blahdy blahdy blah, so I imagine this can be difficult for men to interpret when kindness is actually interest.

    But if you REALLY want to get into it... from the women's side, society teaches women that we have something special that we have to protect. I saw something on facebook the other day that said, "Don't teach your daughters not to go out late, teach your sons to be better men." With slut-shaming and victim shaming ("Well, what was she doing walking around alone at night!?" "What was she thinking going out wearing that skirt!?"), girls are taught to act a certain way to deter attention. Like it's OUR fault that a rapist chose us as a target... You know, had I just worn pants and blended in!
    So, it's not always just that we're wary about some guy we don't know hitting on us, there is also a certain amount of fear of the unknown that has subconsciously been beat into us from a young age. But with rape statistics like 1 out of 4 women (in the US)*, it's not exactly unfounded. Kathleen Hanna (punk singer) exclaims in one of her songs, "I've got THE GIFT OF FEAR!" and I never understood that phrase until I was sexually assaulted. In a way, fear keeps us safe. That's what it's like to be a woman, unfortunately.

    *I've also seen 1/5 and 1/6 but due to the nature of it, it's hard to get an accurate statistic. I never came forward with my sexual assault, so I would be just another unknown not counted.
    riverflowMaryAnneInvincible_summerEvenThird
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I found such a simple question to be quite thought-provoking for me. I have been thinking about it off and on for days. To answer the question, my small sangha, everyone is happy when we are together. They are wonderful people and I think overall they are happy people most of the time. Very loving and compassionate. Many of them have been practicing for 30+ years.

    Then I thought about the area I live in. We live in a small village (160 people) about 3 miles from a small town (about 3500 people). In the general area, people are happy and very polite and nice. Everyone knows each other, so we wave and say hello and ask about each other's spouses and children and parents, etc. It is a nice way to live, to know most people you see. But then I thought about the village we live in. Most of the people are not very happy. I am not sure why, I think most of them feel stuck in their lives, don't like their jobs, don't like a lot of things and don't know how to change it.

    I can't do anything to change their lives, but I think every day I'm going to start going for a walk and finding random things to try to cheer people up. Maybe leave a note on their car, shovel their walk (we're expecting like 8 inches of snow today) or whatever. I think our little town needs more cheer, and somehow I'll find a way to help bring it. Thank you for asking the question :)
    lobster
  • in london, i've been to a couple of dharma centres and they looked too serious and advanced for me so i didn't go back. It's not that they weren't nice, it's just that they didn't click with me. if i wanted to look at a roomful of grim looking people, i'd just go to the bank.

    Probably, Dharma centre could do with some of their members letting their hair down once a while. Over here, once I heard that youngsters prefer to go churches because there you'd get to sing hymns on Sunday and some activities are very attractive to young people because they get little gifts. If a centre is all too serious, I may consider going to the bank too. At least, You'd find smiling people at the bank sometimes especially when they have a big, fat account there!
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited March 2013
    I live in an "active senior community".
    All small, single family homes, in 5 different sections, but it's not a gated community, nor is it a ritzy uppity neighborhood.

    The community itself is near the far end of a large suburban town that's very diverse, very busy, (lots of traffic), and a fair amount of things to do and see. We're also just a couple of miles inland from bay and ocean front resort areas.
    I would guess the median age here in this community is probably 70-72.
    But that's just a guess. It could be a bit higher.

    It's always interesting to be surrounded by all "old" people. I'm on the youngest end of that "old people" spectrum (56) my husband is closer to that median age than I am (66 soon), but the vast majority of people in our neighborhood, clubhouse, and on our street are at least 8-15 yrs older than us.

    I've been thinking about this OP a bit since it was posted.... It appears to me that the HUGE majority of the people I see out and about, whether it's at the community pools, the clubhouses, or just walking around the streets with their dogs, seem "happy". They smile, they nod hello, or in some way acknowledge everyone they make eye contact with.
    This includes the really elderly or disabled people in scooters, wheelchairs or walking with canes or walkers . Even if they are confined to their front porches, they give a little wave as you pass by. They seem upbeat and positive for the most part. It seems like they still make an effort to enjoy life and appreciate every new day.

    I have a feeling the grouchy, bitter, unhappy types are the ones we/I won't see at the swimming pools, or at Bingo, or at the card games, or in the clubhouse billiards room. It seems to be that the happier, more positive people are the ones who are out and about socializing and remaining active outside their homes if they can.

    I have a deeper appreciation for the elderly since I've moved here, myself. Our lives are only going to be as positive and as 'happy' as we allow ourselves to be.
    I hope I never get habitually frown-y, cranky or bitter, because it's such a waste of precious time....
    (and really, no one likes a big ol' Debbie Downer, do they?) ;)





    lobster
  • Dakini said:

    I went to a retreat at the Zen center in town last year. A lot of people came from out of town to hear Stephen Batchelor and his wife discuss the Dharma and lead meditations. Most of the crowd was retirement-age, and there were a few young people. The older folks were so dour! And not at all receptive to even a friendly "hello", let alone a conversation. I couldn't understand it. Fortunately, there were a few younger, energetic types who were enjoying themselves, and were fun to chat with.

    What this all means, I don't know--maybe nothing special. But I thought Dharma practice was about getting to joy, or at least equanimity. I think some people approach the Dharma as something to be studied, but to actually integrate it into everyday life may escape some people.

    I suppose you'd see all these sorts of people in the hospitals too. The grim unfriendly ones probably are looking for medicine sor antidotes to cure their ailments and the lively, friendly ones are just looking for vitamin pills to pop, even to get Viagra to jazz up their life! It has nothing to do with the doctors in the hospital, like it has nothing to do with Dharma.
    riverflow
  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    lobster said:

    Superficiality is a natural inclination. A clown paints on a smile, jumps about and everyone of a child like disposition is happy-happy.
    Somebody wears robes and talks someberly in the prescribed manner and we lap up the platitudes. As we grow up a little we start to experience our own masking and become aware of it in others. If we develop in our practice, we learn to recognise awareness, happiness, sadness, suffering and the real condition of ourselves and others.
    A center, a speaker, a lama, an experience has what we require - if we are genuine, authentic and a learner. We might learn about our attitudes, our responses, our triggers, irrespective of the environment. Some people go to the supermarket and come back wiser and some spend their life in a secluded Himalayan monastery and remain ignorant.
    There is only one dharma centre. We are it.

    this message brought to you by Crusty S Lobster (clowning, juggling and enlightenment while you wait) :vimp:

    We'll never know if the people in our neighbourhood is happy then. We could just guess.
  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    Deepankar said:

    Malay wedding having awesome islamic song and chanting. So blissful and lovely the couples and the islamic brothers and sisters are havimg so much joys preparing and cooking foods together for gracing the occasion. So much pleasantness all round. May all wonderfully joys as well.

    I have been to Malay weddings but it is not as you say. There are modern pop songs being played too and the host also caters food for the guests. Guests come anytime they like and leave any time they like. In the past, guests get to bring homes gaily decorated boiled chicken eggs but nowadays, you'll get sweets and a little junked food in plastic bags or cute little paper boxes.

  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2013
    I've seen lots of Sangha member believe that putting on a happy face made the Sangha experience for others easier to be part of. That effort at maintaining a smiling face was part of their practice in paying homage to the Sangha.

    Personally I think the fruit of the Buddhist practice might better judged by the equanimity that the members of a Sangha bring to each situation but who knows what any sangha member might of actually been like without that practice.
    Imagine an unsmiling George Zimmerman doing a Buddhist practice, staying in his car as instructed, and preventing the creation of a world of greed, hate & delusion.

    Judging the fruits of a practice by a Sangha's smiles is untrustworthy. The only fair test to consider would be the examination of the fruit of your own in that Sangha..
    lobsterVastmind
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    The temple is the place between my ears and in that neighbourhood I can choose the smiles and ways to happiness and reflect that outwardly . . . or choose other appropriate or skilful behaviour when able :)

    That is the real environment we all inhabit. :wave:
  • One of my Buddhist books is a book which has a quote for each day of the year, I read the quote for the 12th of Jan and it reads like this.
    'happiness lies in the smile, not in the object that inspired the smile.'

    Just thought I would share as it has some relevance :)

    Happiness indeed lies in the smile and it is infectious! Thanks!
  • I live in the heart of "Mormon-istan" (Southern Utah). My neighbors smile a lot, but their eyes are glassy and empty of any spark of joy. 'Nuff said?
    how
  • in london, i've been to a couple of dharma centres and they looked too serious and advanced for me so i didn't go back. It's not that they weren't nice, it's just that they didn't click with me. if i wanted to look at a roomful of grim looking people, i'd just go to the bank.

    People don't have to be nice. They just have to click but seriously, I wouldn't want to be a roomful of grim looking people. Life is too short.
  • Dakini said:

    I went to a retreat at the Zen center in town last year. A lot of people came from out of town to hear Stephen Batchelor and his wife discuss the Dharma and lead meditations. Most of the crowd was retirement-age, and there were a few young people. The older folks were so dour! And not at all receptive to even a friendly "hello", let alone a conversation. I couldn't understand it. Fortunately, there were a few younger, energetic types who were enjoying themselves, and were fun to chat with.

    What this all means, I don't know--maybe nothing special. But I thought Dharma practice was about getting to joy, or at least equanimity. I think some people approach the Dharma as something to be studied, but to actually integrate it into everyday life may escape some people.

    I suppose the old folks you talk about has not the light of Dharma shine on them yet! You'd would get a more lively group in a night spot and they could be practising the Dharma!
Sign In or Register to comment.