Reciting mantras, number of repetitions?

Jainarayan

If I were to recite mantras for various reasons, such as om vagishvara hum or om ārapacana dhih to Majushri; or om tāre tuttāre ture svāhā to Tārā; or Medicine Buddha's mantra; for different reasons etc. (or even if I should), is there a certain number of repetitions to be done? Do I need to use a mālā for 27, 54, or 108 etc. reps.?

Chaz

If you're doing Sadhana practice the number of recitations is usually given in the liturgy, but if you're just doing mantra recitations, just do as many as you can. You don't need a mala unless your keeping track of your numbers. A mala can also aid in focusing, but is not an absolute necessity.

Jainarayan

Thanks... no sadhana, just recitation to invoke help from, or draw closer to the deity, buddha, bodhisattva, whoever it is.

genkaku

@Chaz mentioned the use of beads and, since they're not very expensive (unless they were blessed by one pope or another ), I suggest you use them. If no specific number is suggested by your text book, then pick a number ... and stick to it. Beads encourage me to keep going and, perhaps most important, when to stop. I think beads are a good tool and, although tools are not definitively important ... well ... why not use 'em when and where available?

Jainarayan

I have a bunch of 108 bead mālās in different types of wood. Hindus say to use one mantra for one deity and stick with only that, but I think if you're looking for the favor, help or blessings of another deity, there's nothing wrong with chanting that deity's mantra. Maybe I'm wrong.

Chaz

There's a lot of lore surrounding malas. You can use various materials for various deities or practice or to increase merit and so on. Personally, I'm not sure I can buy into all that, but that said, a mala's main function is as a counting device. If you get a sense of blessing from using one mala or another, then go with it.

Jainarayan

Yes, there is indeed. I'm not so sure about the mysticism of them becoming energized and "tuned in" to one deity or another, but there are a lot of people who hold with it.

lobster

What is the reason for mantraing?

Jainarayan

Darshan, vision of the deity. Or at the very least feeling the energy of the deity and/or drawing close. I'm sure someone else can add more. Sometimes it's for supplication also.

Chaz

lobster said:

What is the reason for mantraing?

Reciting a mantra is actually meditation.

Do you know what the reason for meditation is, right?

Chaz

Jainarayan said:

Darshan, vision of the deity. Or at the very least feeling the energy of the deity and/or drawing close. I'm sure someone else can add more. Sometimes it's for supplication also.

There's also the element of visualizing oneself as possessing the enlightened qualities of the deity. So, when you are doing Avalokiteshvara practice, you visualize yourself appearing as Avalokiteshvara.

Jainarayan

Chaz said:

Jainarayan said:

Darshan, vision of the deity. Or at the very least feeling the energy of the deity and/or drawing close. I'm sure someone else can add more. Sometimes it's for supplication also.

There's also the element of visualizing oneself as possessing the enlightened qualities of the deity. So, when you are doing Avalokiteshvara practice, you visualize yourself appearing as Avalokiteshvara.

Yes indeed. In fact that's how I became more acquainted with, and delved into Buddhism: deity yoga. I found my way to Vajrayana but that was too intense a discipline. I found a short sadhana for Avalokiteshvara, which I have yet to perform. I was told Avalokiteshvara sadhana needs no empowerment. I do feel drawn to him.

Btw, I don't believe it conflicts with Hinduism; Sri Krishna says all prayers, supplications are granted by him anyway. Not unlike Catholics praying to saints to pray to God also.

Jainarayan

I forgot to make the disclaimer before the edit time expired:

I know not everyone holds a theistic view, I'm an unabashed universalist henotheistic syncretist.

cvalue

The most important thing when you recite is to concentrate on your mantra and not thinking of something else. It's difficult so when you first start out, a 108-bead mala helps. For each bead, you recite mantra 3 times solidly. If you distract and think of something else, you must restart the counting for this bead. It helps to concentrate to listen to your own sound. When you succeed, you can increase it to 5 times, 7 times and then 10 times. My teacher taught me that.

lobster

Jainarayan said:

Darshan, vision of the deity. Or at the very least feeling the energy of the deity and/or drawing close. I'm sure someone else can add more. Sometimes it's for supplication also.

OK got it.
Well at the moment I am aligning with Amitaba, so it is not 'how many' but how long is your longing. The more you do, the closer you become.

As for alignment, many practices are now open, empowerment is open from Chenresig, to Medicine Buddha, Guru Rinpoche etc.
OM MANI PADME HUM is the more 'Hindu' orientated mantra of Avalokiteshvara. You could at least use an image or statue as a focus?

Citta

Jainarayan said:

Chaz said:

Jainarayan said:

Darshan, vision of the deity. Or at the very least feeling the energy of the deity and/or drawing close. I'm sure someone else can add more. Sometimes it's for supplication also.

There's also the element of visualizing oneself as possessing the enlightened qualities of the deity. So, when you are doing Avalokiteshvara practice, you visualize yourself appearing as Avalokiteshvara.

Yes indeed. In fact that's how I became more acquainted with, and delved into Buddhism: deity yoga. I found my way to Vajrayana but that was too intense a discipline. I found a short sadhana for Avalokiteshvara, which I have yet to perform. I was told Avalokiteshvara sadhana needs no empowerment. I do feel drawn to him.

Btw, I don't believe it conflicts with Hinduism; Sri Krishna says all prayers, supplications are granted by him anyway. Not unlike Catholics praying to saints to pray to God also.

There are sadhanas that can be performed with empowerment..but it is not generally not advised. There are so many ways in which no matter how well intentioned sadhanas can be a little 'off'. And a little off now can be well off a while down the track..and the last person who will know that it 'off' might be ourselves.
The internet is littered with such cases.
And anyway there simply is no need in the Kaliyuga to practice without proper guidance.
By Grace, teachers , real authentic ones, have increased in direct proportion to the growing confusion of the Kaliyuga. As have phonies. But there are ways to tell them apart.

Jainarayan

lobster said:

As for alignment, many practices are now open, empowerment is open from Chenresig, to Medicine Buddha, Guru Rinpoche etc.
OM MANI PADME HUM is the more 'Hindu' orientated mantra of Avalokiteshvara. You could at least use an image or statue as a focus?

Yes, Chenrezig/Avalokiteshvara is open, as is Green Tārā (I think). I have statues of Avalokiteshvara, Green Tara (who is most likely a form of Durga), Medicine Buddha, Manjushri, as well as Guanyin (I know she's Avalokiteshvara ) and Shakyamuni Buddha in my shrine. I say general prayers to them, as I do to the Hindu deities, and make offerings: water, sweets, light, incense.

As it turns out Manjushri is the Buddhist consort of Saraswati, herself a Vajrayana deity; Medicine Buddha, imo, is equivalent to Dhanvantari, a little-known incarnation of Vishnu. I recite the Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāranī and Uṣṇīṣa Dhāraṇī. The Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāranī makes clear reference to Vishnu and Shiva... there is a lot of overlap and cross-pollination.

Anyway, I think I'm digressing, as I usually do. So, I'll probably stick with om mani padme hum to invoke Avalokiteshvara and compassion.

Jainarayan

Citta said:

There are sadhanas that can be performed with empowerment..but it is not generally not advised. There are so many ways in which no matter how well intentioned sadhanas can be a little 'off'. And a little off now can be well off a while down the track..and the last person who will know that it 'off' might be ourselves.
The internet is littered with such cases.
And anyway there simply is no need in the Kaliyuga to practice without proper guidance.
By Grace, teachers , real authentic ones, have increased in direct proportion to the growing confusion of the Kaliyuga. As have phonies. But there are ways to tell them apart.

Yes, I agree. Even if one is not empowered, it's easy enough to get hold of an esoteric sadhana either from books or the internet and perform it. But no, it's not advised. That was pointed out to me by a former Vajrayana practitioner. The way she explained, simplistically because I didn't need the nuts and bolts, it is that it can cause spiritual and emotional upheaval when done unguided. It is much the same for those who meditate with om. That is meditating on the unmanifest, which not everyone is prepared for. Supposedly it can also uproot one's spiritual and emotional balance. Of course the New Age-ers, TMers and yogis and yoginis in the west don't know what om (aum) really is.

lobster

as is Green Tārā (I think)

Green Tara + chenresig + bit of indigenous Chinese deity = quan yin.

The 21 praises of Tara includes manifestations of Tara, such as Kali and Durgha, so totally open practices, such as Tara, have all the potential, harmlessness and dangers of
OM MANI PEME WELL HUNG . . .

Devotion, practice alignment, not just words . . . :wave:

Manjushri (consequently Saraswati) are included in Migtsema open practice, which includes chenrezig and a wrathful deity and a Buddhist lama gone deity . . .
http://www.tsemtulku.com/forum/index.php?topic=1619.0;wap2
. . . might suit you.
I learned the mantra recently, the whole practice is more focussed but the mantra is cool.

Don't know if you like Ganesh? Can be found in 'Buddhism' too if required. Went to see Ganesh this morning, offered him some incense, I don't think he'll ever lose that spare tire . . .

Jainarayan

Yep @lobster everything you said is true. I keep a small statue of Ganesha on my dashboard (no fuzzy dice though ). I have a brass one on my altar. We pray to him when beginning anything and to remove obstacles.

I occasionally say the Praises To The Twenty-one Taras and the King of Prayers. I'm going to look at the link you posted. Saraswati is my patroness for music and learning.

lobster

Regarding empowerment to recite
http://yinyana.tumblr.com/post/39920983665/mantra-of-light

If anyone is mentally ill and many of us are, then wrathful or esoteric alignments will ripen karma. Hence a Buddha or Guru to watch over us . . . This vairocana mantra in the above link was too powerful for my little lobster mind. You might be more able to cope with the esoteric stuff . . .

I do the long version of this teacher orientated mantra
http://www.rinpoche.com/gurumantra.html

Really there is only one mantra

I take refuge in the Buddha.
I take refuge in the Dharma.
I take refuge in the Sangha.

You can say this in Klingon and be safe
or be enlightened by next Tuesday
. . . which is a terrible curse

May you clear all of your karma by next week and become enlightened.
http://kundalini-teacher.com/lessons/project.php

Be mindful. Be happy. Drive carefully, Elephant Diety on board

Citta

In the end @Jainarayan it is our own responsibility ..we can either get proper instruction in Vajrayana Mantrayoga as we discussed via PM, which in effect means surrendering our ego to a recognised teacher, or we can spend time in the spiritual supermarket piling up stuff in an attempt to maintain our apparent independence.. until we are off our trolley and risk huge psychological imbalance at worst, and going around in circles at best. .
That advice is the same from any authentic tradition..whether Hesychast, Vaisnav or Vajrayana.

This is the Kaliyuga.
D.I.Y. in this sphere is not an option.

Best wishes.

_/\_

Citta

What IS an option for many without more instruction than can be found online is Samatha...the meditation aimed at calming the mind.
In the Tibetan tradition its called Shine, pronounced she-nay.

cvalue

The counting is only applied to beginners, to help them to concentrate and to know how they progress. After a few years practice, it will become automatic and the need for counting will disappear. I follow the Chinese and Japanese Pure Land school of Buddhism that is focused on Amitabha recitation.

Jainarayan

lobster said:

Regarding empowerment to recite
http://yinyana.tumblr.com/post/39920983665/mantra-of-light

If anyone is mentally ill and many of us are, then wrathful or esoteric alignments will ripen karma. Hence a Buddha or Guru to watch over us . . .

Yep, I think that's the point.

lobster said:

This vairocana mantra in the above link was too powerful for my little lobster mind. You might be more able to cope with the esoteric stuff . . .

I do the long version of this teacher orientated mantra
http://www.rinpoche.com/gurumantra.html

Really there is only one mantra

I take refuge in the Buddha.
I take refuge in the Dharma.
I take refuge in the Sangha.

You can say this in Klingon and be safe
or be enlightened by next Tuesday
. . . which is a terrible curse

May you clear all of your karma by next week and become enlightened.
http://kundalini-teacher.com/lessons/project.php

Thanks for the tips; more to read and learn.

lobster said:

Be mindful. Be happy. Drive carefully, Elephant Diety on board

That has more meaning than you can imagine... Yesterday I wound up in a situation while driving that I escaped by the skin of my teeth. I almost t boned an old man in a compact car who was driving totally oblivious or confused, ran a stop sign to cross in front of me, made me swerve several times with traffic coming up behind me in both lanes to miss him ("Mr. Sulu! Evasive action!"). :hair: I was blaring the horn, but I was too close to even try to stop (40 mph speed limit, 5,000 lb pick up truck). The old guy just kept going about his business. Sri Ganesha was definitely directing traffic in my favor. The old me would have been cursing and swearing, and going on for an hour letting it get the best of me, but I realized a few things:

1. He was an old man who may have been confused and/or hard of hearing. He probably shouldn't be driving, but that's not my call. I kind of feel sorry for people like him. He could have been hurt worse than me.
2. You don't curse and thank or praise the deities with the same mouth.
3. Why get angry over something that didn't happen. Even if it did happen I'd have to deal with it.

But this is a total digression, as is my tendency.

Jainarayan

Citta said:

In the end @Jainarayan it is our own responsibility ..we can either get proper instruction in Vajrayana Mantrayoga as we discussed via PM, which in effect means surrendering our ego to a recognised teacher, or we can spend time in the spiritual supermarket piling up stuff in an attempt to maintain our apparent independence.. until we are off our trolley and risk huge psychological imbalance at worst, and going around in circles at best. .
That advice is the same from any authentic tradition..whether Hesychast, Vaisnav or Vajrayana.

This is the Kaliyuga.
D.I.Y. in this sphere is not an option.

Best wishes.

_/\_

Kaliyuga is a dangerous time. Good analogy with the supermarket. Over the years I've tended to grab things off the shelves and put them in the shopping cart then think "so what do I do with all this stuff?" Then I start emptying the cart and putting stuff back saying "nah, I can't use that". Only by trial and error have I found what works. If something doesn't work it's best not to force it. I got that from Taoism.