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volitional formation (sankhara)
upekka
Veteran
in Philosophy
have you ever noticed that 'the life is just a process of happening' all the time
'the process of happening' is meant by volitional formation
the present experience (getting through eye, ear etc.) is the past volitional formation
ignorance to above creates new volitional formation
(this is the circle of birth and death)
3
Comments
nice
I think I'm getting one of my headaches.....
Yes to the first sentence - it is a meditative state, where buddha may be recognised fully in it's entirety.
No to the second sentence - these are your assumptions, and they are based on ignorance.
No to the third sentence - this is what happens when you are ignorant - note well: this word is made up of ignore (look up definition) and rant (also look up definition - it's for you to research this stuff if you are going to comment) - but re ( mental note - what does this prefix mean?) is missing from the conjoining of these 2 words...
Yes or No to the fourth sentence - it doesn't matter what the reply is now because the initial state has been replaced with unfounded assertions and assumptions.
Why have I opposed the 3 subsequent statements? Well because I agree with the first statement, it resonates with me, but the subsequent 'assertions' and 'assumptions' have no basis'. Life has no controlling force IMHO, that you might call volition or might be called 'will', for instance.
Will "will I am' conquer the world - lol
Poetry and semantics!
ignorance definitely produces karma. That's exactly how it is stated in the teachings of the nidanas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Nidānas
thanks friends, for your contribution
i have nothing further to say
dear federica, if you think it is better to close this thread do it, please
loving-kindness and compassion to all !!!
I think the "process of happening" is represented by all 5 aggregates, not just volitional formations.
>
Why would I think that?
Don't be so touchy!
:0)
saṅkhāra:
Formation, compound, fashioning, fabrication — the forces and factors that fashion things (physical or mental), the process of fashioning, and the fashioned things that result. Saṅkhāra can refer to anything formed or fashioned by conditions, or, more specifically, (as one of the five khandhas) thought-formations within the mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html#s
you are correct
but
'abhi sankhara sankaranthi' means
'form aggregate' is recreated by volitional formation
'feeling aggregate' is recreated by volitional formation
'perception aggregate' is recreated by volitional formation
'consciousness aggregate' is recreated by volitional formation
'volitional formation' itself is recreated by volitional formation aggregate
no dear,
i was not touchy
i thought this thread would make confusion and i did not wanted to make it happen again
thanks,
it confirms what i have seen
thanks again
The mind fabricates, fashions or creates meaning out of experiences/phenomenon.
*sankhara [sankhaara]:Formation, compound, fashioning, fabrication — the forces and factors that fashion things (physical or mental), the process of fashioning, and the fashioned things that result. Sankhara can refer to anything formed or fashioned by conditions, or, more specifically, (as one of the five khandhas) thought-formations within the mind.
I'd be interested to know the source of this - and are we sure that sankhara here refers specifically to the formations aggregate, or to the wider meaning of formations as anything which is conditioned?
@ spinyNorman
following source for 'abhi sankhara sankarothi':
and
(one of my friend gave me those source)
tell you the truth, i did not read them
that is because most of the time i listen to dhamma sermons given by teachers and meditate on them to see the truth in them
answer to the next part of the question:
there are three category of sankhara namely citta, vacci and kaya sankhara
citta sankhara has 1). punnabhi sankhara (skilful volition), 2).apunnabhi sankhara (unskilful volition) and 3).anenjhabhi sankhara (impertable volition -5th, 6th, 7th,and 8th jhana)
vacci sankhara has all 1)., 2)., and 3).,
kaya sankhara has all 1)., 2)., and 3).,
so
you can say formation aggregate as well as wider meaning of formations
Out of interest @upekka do you think we need to go, or can we even discuss, beyond the 4th jhana?
we do not need to go beyond 4th jhana to understand Dhamma (to get the Right View/sotapanna/First stage of Dhamma knowledge)
we can not discuss jhana beyond 4th jhana because they are states of the mind of a person who experience them
Yes I agree with your comments. Thank you.
That applies to all jhanic states, doesn't it?
Thank goodness you said that. Believe it or not, I was thinking the same thing, but actually thought such logic was somehow too basic and thus, flawed!
But it really is a valid point....
yes and no
yes,
because all jhanas are the mind states of a person who do meditation
they are different states of calmness of the mind
no,
because for the first four jhana can be diferenciate with their qualities namely,
first jhana has vitakka vicara, piti, suka, ekaggatha ( someone who knows english terms could provide them for the benefit for who doesn't understand pali terms, please)
second jhana has pithi, suka, ekaggatha
third jhana has suka, ekaggatha
4th jhana has ekaggatha (upekka)
when one's mind is calm, one can verify whether one has such qualities in one's mind
The Buddha did say that the range of a meditater in Jhana is an imponderable. That is probably different from knowing which jhana they are in. Not sure what 'range' here means.
imponderable
because looking at a person who is in meditation, no one can say in which jhana state he is or just he is thinking all the rubbish he collected before he sit for meditation
range is in between 'meditation calmness as we gain when we are meditating' and 'calmness of the mind state that has no sanna (perception) vedaitha (feeling)'
so range includes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 jhanas
instead of thinking about these different jhana states, it is more important to get a calm state of mind by using any of meditation objectives like breathing, loving-kindness, buddhanussathi etc.
turn that calm mind to analysis (dhamma-viccaya) the dhamma we have read or listen to gain the Right View (Noble Right View)
once we get that so many questions will be solved
The formless jhanas also have attributes that can be differentiated - see for example this extract from MN111 which describes the qualities of the first formless jhana, infinite space:
"....perceiving, 'Infinite space,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space. Whatever qualities there are in the dimension of the infinitude of space — the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another".
Sorry to go off topic!
Your post contains the word "jhana". AFAIAC, you're on topic...
as federica said you are not going off topic
all formless jhanas are aanenja sankhara -imperturbable volitional formations
however discussing them -infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness and neither-nor-perception states- is fruitless
they (including first four jhanas) are to be experienced, not just for discussion
it is fruitful if one can discuss them with one's teacher with the experience one gets through one's meditation
Tipitaka
Anguttara Nikaya
Cetana Sutta: An Act of Will
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1997
"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.
"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.
"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.
"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.
"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.
"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.
"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.
"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.
"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."
First jhana
vitakka = applied thought
vicara = sustained thought
piti = rapture
sukha = happiness
ekaggata = one-pointedness
Second jhana
pithi, suka, ekaggatha (Same as above)
Third jhana
suka, ekaggatha (Same again)
Fourth jhana
upekkhasatiparisuddhi = purity of mindfulness due to equanimity
Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html
@mmo thanks many