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Plants are intelligent and will soon rule the world!
“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”
Bodhi Yoda
Ideally the soil itself is alive and sentient. We think of sentience as something we recognise. Plants are incredibly versatile, responsive to their environments. They respond, like most things very well to metta. Funny that ...
Sentience is a gip - a terse way of expressing exclusion which clearly goes against the grain but since the grain is a mystery, the definition hangs about like a bad smell, a convenient excuse.
I don't know how the scientists can say plants are conscious when they haven't even figured out what consciousness is to begin with? That doesn't make any sense!
Well we are made up of the 5 elements, so are plants so yeah sure!
Earth grows plants, earth grows people.
Alan Watts says it's absolutely ridiculous to think that an intelligent life form came from an unintelligent universe. I like this theory.
Plants are definitely alive, they are entities. They even die like us. I know I'm probably not much more intelligent than some vegetables.
And let's face it, no plants. Good bye humans. They hold the cards.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited August 2015
Plants are alive but not like us. They react to stimulation but they don't suffer from the notion that they are separate from any "other". A plant is the cosmos.
No brain, no pain.
If each blade of grass is aware of its own being then I wonder how each of our hairs feel?
@Earthninja said: Alan Watts says it's absolutely ridiculous to think that an intelligent life form came from an unintelligent universe.
But that is what all the evidence suggests.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited August 2015
In my view the universe is a kind of intelligence but it is not aware of itself except through us.
I'm not sure how "self" aware a plant could be even though it reacts. Given enough time and conditioning we can see the rocks reacting to the environment as well.
The plants react to the changing environments just like the animals, the fungi, the protozoa, the algae etc. Adaptation and evolution. That's kind of "intelligence" = to stay alive and spread our selfish genes.
We people are not individuals, but "clones" just like the gabbages without any single unique idea or thought, except some autistics or otherwise crazy weirdos.
I haven't heard of plants coming up with useful inventions, things like sandwiches, cricket, steam engines and wellingtons. Those marvellous things were invented by British gentlemen of course.
The historical intelligence manifested by Homo Sapiens is "What we can kill", we rule".
Who wouldn't cheer to be ruled by such a species
With so many other earth species having come and gone,
most with considerably longer existence runs than us,
why wouldn't plants just see us as another temporary blight,
already disappearing into the byproducts of our own makings.
Perhaps the real testament to a plants true intelligence ( & maybe aliens)
is their willingness to allow us to determine the manner of our own ending.
That kind of intelligence probably hasn't ever considered the earth rule-able.
"Plants are intelligent and will soon rule the world!"
Woohooo Woohoo Vegetarians rule !
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited August 2015
@how said:
The historical intelligence manifested by Homo Sapiens is "What we can kill", we rule".
Who wouldn't cheer to be ruled by such a species
With so many other earth species having come and gone,
most with considerably longer existence runs than us,
why wouldn't plants just see us as another temporary blight,
already disappearing into the byproducts of our own makings.
I never cease to be amazed how quickly nature - by virtue manifesting herself though flora - takes over spaces abandoned by humans, and an astonishingly fast pace... When you consider the thickness of tarmac and road surfaces, car-park spaces and pavements, and how quickly and mercilessly plants penetrate layers of apparently impenetrable substances, I marvel at the strength of the dandelion, the dock, and the buddleia....
@federica
I have paddled by and explored former working towns on the North coast that were simply abandoned after the industries that supported them collapsed 70 years ago, and only an odd brick pushed up by a tree root now marks their location.
@SpinyNorman they don't even know what the universe is. Or what they are. Or what consciousness is. And yet here they are.
It's a bold statement to say the universe is unintelligent. Maybe not our kind of intelligence. Thank god.
@SpinyNorman said:
It's a bold statement to say that the universe is intelligent. Have you got any evidence for this claim?
I never claimed the universe was intelligent. I said I liked Alan Watts theory.
It implies that because we are here, as a result of growing from the earth is evidence. He says we didn't come into this world, we came our of it.
Same way that if an apple grew from a tree and the apple was intelligent. We could say the tree has to have some form of intellect. Maybe not how our minds imagine though.
Seems reasonable to me. I don't think we could be here by fluke. Complete randomness.
So hey, the plants are no different to us really.
What do you think? That we are just the perfect combination of carbon/h2o/oxygen and bang. Then all this?
@Earthninja said: I don't think we could be here by fluke. Complete randomness.
Why not?
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
If the potential was there, it was bound to happen eventually.
Do plants actually break through and up concrete? I thought they took advantage of existing cracks....and then grew up and over. Maybe big tree roots have the power to push up.....but little dandelions and vines???? The roots are still in the ground getting fed....the top growth just needs something to sit on. I dunno.... That dandelion pic can be misleading....no?
Edit.....referring to Aunt Fede's post.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
No, look at the tarmac. It's pushed up.
Even if there had originally been an 'existing crack', the plant still pushed the surface materials up and broke its way through.
Because life is too incredibly brilliant. A miracle beyond our conceptual minds. I looked at a rainbow about 5 minutes ago, there is something beyond our imagination that creates this. Well I feel that way anyway.
I read the article in the original post, and I can't say I'm impressed. Plants are amazing, highly evolved, adapted to their environments, yes. To infer from that intelligence seems to require that entity's lack.
Something being beyond our conceptual minds doesn't make it a miracle, it just means it's beyond us. Sure, the universe is unimaginably vast, strange and awe-inspiring, but I don't see how any of that supports the idea that the universe is "intelligent" - it sounds like anthropomorphic wishful thinking to me.
@SpinyNorman said:
Something being beyond our conceptual minds doesn't make it a miracle, it just means it's beyond us. Sure, the universe is unimaginably vast, strange and awe-inspiring, but I don't see how any of that supports the idea that the universe is "intelligent" - it sounds like anthropomorphic wishful thinking to me.
It's more being in awe of the fact I'm even conscious and breathing, looking at a rainbow. I had nothing to do with this, and yet. Here I am.
You can see it anyway you want.
That implies something planted me. Parents?
But who planted them? Ad infinity.
Apparently the universe might not have started as a Big Bang either.
Incredible stuff
What is intelligence? An insect colony displays intelligent behavior (optimization of resources, adaption to changes in environment etc) so why not a plant? Does intelligence require consciousness or volition? Again, perhaps not ...
I think if something in a plant's environment changes and the plant responds, then it consciously and thoughtfully analyzes the response and the results, makes logical inferences, and draws conclusions, and changes its actions as a result, then there would be evidence for plants having intelligence. But plants don't do this, of course. They just respond by preprogrammed genetic instructions. I have never seen anything to indicate a plant can think, let alone think intelligently.
Plants are basically a bit thick, and so do not qualify as English gentlemen.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I have heard it said that a Cauliflower is merely a cabbage with a college degree.
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Watching an episode of Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson yesterday reminded me of this thread.
I'm not so sure of my stance on this now because apparently each plant has its own DNA. That along with the article here has me scratching my head.
1
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@SpinyNorman said:
My mountain ash trees have been whispering to each other....
...and the poor willows weeping
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Comments
Could you add comment...?
I have known some smart cabbages.
“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”
Bodhi Yoda
Ideally the soil itself is alive and sentient. We think of sentience as something we recognise. Plants are incredibly versatile, responsive to their environments. They respond, like most things very well to metta. Funny that ...
... and now back to the comments ...
No, I am worried about what my trees will think.
you idiot.
Sentience is a gip - a terse way of expressing exclusion which clearly goes against the grain but since the grain is a mystery, the definition hangs about like a bad smell, a convenient excuse.
I don't know how the scientists can say plants are conscious when they haven't even figured out what consciousness is to begin with? That doesn't make any sense!
Well we are made up of the 5 elements, so are plants so yeah sure!
Earth grows plants, earth grows people.
Alan Watts says it's absolutely ridiculous to think that an intelligent life form came from an unintelligent universe. I like this theory.
Plants are definitely alive, they are entities. They even die like us. I know I'm probably not much more intelligent than some vegetables.
And let's face it, no plants. Good bye humans. They hold the cards.
Plants are alive but not like us. They react to stimulation but they don't suffer from the notion that they are separate from any "other". A plant is the cosmos.
No brain, no pain.
If each blade of grass is aware of its own being then I wonder how each of our hairs feel?
But that is what all the evidence suggests.
In my view the universe is a kind of intelligence but it is not aware of itself except through us.
I'm not sure how "self" aware a plant could be even though it reacts. Given enough time and conditioning we can see the rocks reacting to the environment as well.
The plants react to the changing environments just like the animals, the fungi, the protozoa, the algae etc. Adaptation and evolution. That's kind of "intelligence" = to stay alive and spread our selfish genes.
We people are not individuals, but "clones" just like the gabbages without any single unique idea or thought, except some autistics or otherwise crazy weirdos.
I haven't heard of plants coming up with useful inventions, things like sandwiches, cricket, steam engines and wellingtons. Those marvellous things were invented by British gentlemen of course.
Lest we forget "The day of the Triffids"
Triffids were also invented by an English gentleman.
The Triffids 'invent' the English gentleman
The historical intelligence manifested by Homo Sapiens is "What we can kill", we rule".
Who wouldn't cheer to be ruled by such a species
With so many other earth species having come and gone,
most with considerably longer existence runs than us,
why wouldn't plants just see us as another temporary blight,
already disappearing into the byproducts of our own makings.
Perhaps the real testament to a plants true intelligence ( & maybe aliens)
is their willingness to allow us to determine the manner of our own ending.
That kind of intelligence probably hasn't ever considered the earth rule-able.
"Plants are intelligent and will soon rule the world!"
Woohooo Woohoo Vegetarians rule !
I never cease to be amazed how quickly nature - by virtue manifesting herself though flora - takes over spaces abandoned by humans, and an astonishingly fast pace... When you consider the thickness of tarmac and road surfaces, car-park spaces and pavements, and how quickly and mercilessly plants penetrate layers of apparently impenetrable substances, I marvel at the strength of the dandelion, the dock, and the buddleia....
@federica
I have paddled by and explored former working towns on the North coast that were simply abandoned after the industries that supported them collapsed 70 years ago, and only an odd brick pushed up by a tree root now marks their location.
@SpinyNorman they don't even know what the universe is. Or what they are. Or what consciousness is. And yet here they are.
It's a bold statement to say the universe is unintelligent. Maybe not our kind of intelligence. Thank god.
It's a bold statement to say that the universe is intelligent. Have you got any evidence for this claim?
'The leek shall inherit the earth.'
We can learn a lot from carrots.
Mother Nature, Greenman etc ... and even the Buddha touched the earth as witness to his enlightenment ...
I never claimed the universe was intelligent. I said I liked Alan Watts theory.
It implies that because we are here, as a result of growing from the earth is evidence. He says we didn't come into this world, we came our of it.
Same way that if an apple grew from a tree and the apple was intelligent. We could say the tree has to have some form of intellect. Maybe not how our minds imagine though.
Seems reasonable to me. I don't think we could be here by fluke. Complete randomness.
So hey, the plants are no different to us really.
What do you think? That we are just the perfect combination of carbon/h2o/oxygen and bang. Then all this?
Why not?
If the potential was there, it was bound to happen eventually.
. * raises hand * I have a question.
Do plants actually break through and up concrete? I thought they took advantage of existing cracks....and then grew up and over. Maybe big tree roots have the power to push up.....but little dandelions and vines???? The roots are still in the ground getting fed....the top growth just needs something to sit on. I dunno.... That dandelion pic can be misleading....no?
Edit.....referring to Aunt Fede's post.
No, look at the tarmac. It's pushed up.
Even if there had originally been an 'existing crack', the plant still pushed the surface materials up and broke its way through.
Because life is too incredibly brilliant. A miracle beyond our conceptual minds. I looked at a rainbow about 5 minutes ago, there is something beyond our imagination that creates this. Well I feel that way anyway.
Gotcha....I see what your saying.....
I read the article in the original post, and I can't say I'm impressed. Plants are amazing, highly evolved, adapted to their environments, yes. To infer from that intelligence seems to require that entity's lack.
Something being beyond our conceptual minds doesn't make it a miracle, it just means it's beyond us. Sure, the universe is unimaginably vast, strange and awe-inspiring, but I don't see how any of that supports the idea that the universe is "intelligent" - it sounds like anthropomorphic wishful thinking to me.
It's more being in awe of the fact I'm even conscious and breathing, looking at a rainbow. I had nothing to do with this, and yet. Here I am.
You can see it anyway you want.
Perhaps you were just 'planted' here @Earthninja ...just saying
That implies something planted me. Parents?
But who planted them? Ad infinity.
Apparently the universe might not have started as a Big Bang either.
Incredible stuff
What is intelligence? An insect colony displays intelligent behavior (optimization of resources, adaption to changes in environment etc) so why not a plant? Does intelligence require consciousness or volition? Again, perhaps not ...
I think if something in a plant's environment changes and the plant responds, then it consciously and thoughtfully analyzes the response and the results, makes logical inferences, and draws conclusions, and changes its actions as a result, then there would be evidence for plants having intelligence. But plants don't do this, of course. They just respond by preprogrammed genetic instructions. I have never seen anything to indicate a plant can think, let alone think intelligently.
Plants are basically a bit thick, and so do not qualify as English gentlemen.
I have heard it said that a Cauliflower is merely a cabbage with a college degree.
Watching an episode of Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson yesterday reminded me of this thread.
I'm not so sure of my stance on this now because apparently each plant has its own DNA. That along with the article here has me scratching my head.
I suggest we bow to King Kudzu!
Thank who??????
It seems plants already rule the world. Though not in the Genghis Khan mode.
Spinach anyone?
Mahakashyapa was the first Buddhist to be enlightened by spinach.
In the famous 'flower sermon' the Buddha raised a piece of brocolli (from what I remember) as an act of transmission ...
And the Buddha's last words, as edited by Willy Shakespeare: "Alas, humans are temporary and plants will rule, so chill out and smell the coffee."
Ginseng sits patiently biding its time......knowing its time to rule draws closer....
My mountain ash trees have been whispering to each other....
...and the poor willows weeping
And a partridge in a pear tree
Christmas gets earlier every year!
Gawd, not bleedin' Chrismus again! It comes rarnd so bleedin' quick!