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Chan Zen teachings

misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a HinduIndia Veteran
edited November 24 in General Banter

Hi All,
How are you? I have been away for sometime, as I was busy. Change in plans, migrated to Australia, not Melbourne and with family in India, will try to move back to India after the current work assignment is over.

Over the last few days, from a library book-shelf, saw a book titled something like 'Songs of Enlightenment by Ancient Chan Masters' written by Chan master Sheng Yen. Read this very insightful book, then came to know the names of some ancient Chan masters. Searched in Google for those Chan masters and got few links containing their teachings and some other URLs related to Zen, so thought of just sharing it with you all as a Christmas gift from me to all of you:

http://www.purifymind.com/SongMind.htm

http://www.purifymind.com/index.php/non-buddist/144-chan
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/VenHua/Song of Enlightenment.htm
https://terebess.hu/zen/chang/HanshanPoems.pdf

https://www.dailyzen.com/journal/practice-instructions

http://www.ancientdragon.org/dharma/dharma_books/cultivating_the_empty_field_book_excerpt

https://www.dailyzen.com/library/book/cultivating-the-empty-field-the-silent-illumination-of-zen-master-hongzhi

http://brightwayzen.org/resources/domyos-commentary-on-the-genjokoan/

One URL which I just found in trying to post the URL https://terebess.hu/zen/xinming.html is the URL https://terebess.hu/zen/textindex.html which seems to have a lot of insightful information.

In the URL https://terebess.hu/zen/xinming.html in its web-page, a very insightful dialog is written, just copy-pasting below for easy reading:
Beyond this traditional story, a few dialogues involving Zen teacher Niutou are preserved in the classical records.
A monk asked Niutou, “The people known as ‘saints’—what dharmas should they cut off and what dharmas should they attain so that they can thus earn this title?”
Niutou said, “Those who don’t cut off or attain even a single dharma—they are called ‘saints.’”
The monk then asked, “If they don’t cut off or attain a single dharma, what difference is there between such people and common people?”
Niutou said, “There is a difference. Do you know why? Because common people try to rid themselves of afflictions and they delusionally scheme for gain. There is nothing that is fundamentally lost or gained by the true mind of a saint. That is why there is a difference.”
The monk then asked, “In considering what is attained by common people and what is not attained by saints, where does the difference lie between this attainment and nonattainment?
Niutou said, “The difference lies in that what is attained by common people is delusional, whereas the nonattainment of saints is not delusional. For the deluded, there is a difference in these two viewpoints, whereas saints do not recognize a difference.”
The monk then asked, “Please describe the viewpoint of those saints who do not recognize the difference in these two views.”
Niutou said, “The terms ‘commoner’ and ‘saint’ are but false names. Within these two false names there are actually not two things, and thus there is no difference.”

Hope you all find the above URLs insightful.

May you all be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.
Unconditional loving kindness (Metta) to all sentient beings.
May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

TravellerShoshin

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Nice to see you again, @misecmisc1 and thank you for your offering.

    lobster
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    @federica said:
    Nice to see you again, @misecmisc1 and thank you for your offering.

    Thanks @federica.

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    Hi All,
    In this web-page https://terebess.hu/zen/baizhang.html found the insightful teachings of Baizhang. Below copy-pasting some portion of it:
    A monk once asked – How can a person gain freedom?
    Baizhang said – If you realize it in this moment, then you've realized it. If you instantly cut off the emotional clinging of the self, all cravings and attachments, the greed and grasping, the notions of degraded and pure, in other words, all delusive thoughts; then you'll be like the sun or the moon hanging free in space, shining clearly...(You'll be like) a great elephant crossing a raging river – engulfed in the rapids but not loosing your footing. Neither heaven nor hell can pull you in. When you read a scripture or hear a teaching, the words all return to yourself...You'll see that all verbal teachings are only a reflection of the immediacy of self-nature and are just meant to point the way. Letting go of all sound and form, but not dwelling in the notion of detachment, and not holding any intellectual comprehension – this is the true practice of reading scriptures and hearing teachings. If you let everything be as it is, always acting with clarity according to the situation, this is truly dropping off all fetters.

    You may also find the above web-page URL insightful containing teachings of Baizhang.

    May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

    Hozanlobster
  • @misecmisc1 said:

    May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

    That will keep me busy. B)

  • The Platform Sutra I find inspiring.

    Shen-hsiu incomplete understanding

    The body is the bodhi tree,
    The mind is like a clear mirror.
    At all times we must strive to polish it,
    And must not let the dust collect.

    Vs Hui Neng's realisation

    There is no Bodhi tree,
    Nor stand of a mirror bright.
    Since all is void,
    Where can the dust alight?

    lobsterDhammaDragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited December 7

    Here is the 'ox herding' classic teaching ... visual format ...

    DhammaDragon
  • jwredeljwredel Albuquerque Explorer

    When to worry? When there are more answers than questions.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It also pays to distinguish wisely between needing an answer and wanting one.

  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    the unborn sounds amazing!the ineffable of innumberable meaning.i like what he said,the unborn will appear.i equate the unborn just is.happy benkei speaks of ineffible or in dao,the sorce.

  • GuiGui Veteran
    edited December 8

    If you let everything be as it is, always acting with clarity according to the situation, this is truly dropping off all fetters._

    When your study
    Of Buddhism is through
    You find
    You haven't anything new.

    When you are abiding in the Unborn, all the time is zazen."

    @misecmisc1,
    Thank you for presenting this. As they say, "in a nutshell".

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    I rather like the sound of Bankei’s approach. It gels with my personal experience, that approaching the spiritual is very much about letting go. Although it is interesting sometimes to know what to let go of...

  • GuiGui Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    I rather like the sound of Bankei’s approach. It gels with my personal experience, that approaching the spiritual is very much about letting go. Although it is interesting sometimes to know what to let go of...

    The spiritual, for one.

  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    @jwredel said:
    When to worry? When there are more answers than questions.

    In Zen we don't find the answers: we lose the questions.

    jwredel
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    “The Master (Bankei) always advised people, “don’t get born,” i.e., don’t take on seriously even for a moment any false, limiting identifications of being a man, a woman, a Buddhist, a Confucian, good, bad, old, young, angry, elated, mortal body or even a distinct, immortal soul. In our True Nature we are always only the unmanifest Absolute, which manifests as the conventional “dream” of life while yet always remaining Absolute. Freedom is always Free, and our Real Identity is this Spiritual Freedom or Mind/Heart of Buddha-Nature.”

    Interesting.

    paulyso
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    As far as I know, "The Cucumber Sage" [http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/C - Zen/Stories/The Cucumber Sage/The Cucumber Sage.htm] is made up entirely of whole cloth. And yet for all that I am willing to swallow it as a very respectable, sutra-grade artifact.

  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    “The Master (Bankei) always advised people, “don’t get born,” i.e., don’t take on seriously even for a moment any false, limiting identifications of being a man, a woman, a Buddhist, a Confucian, good, bad, old, young, angry, elated, mortal body or even a distinct, immortal soul. In our True Nature we are always only the unmanifest Absolute, which manifests as the conventional “dream” of life while yet always remaining Absolute. Freedom is always Free, and our Real Identity is this Spiritual Freedom or Mind/Heart of Buddha-Nature.”

    Interesting.

    awe-mazing! he might be attune to the inner source--buddha nature--incorporated to the greater source,which in mahayana is the dharmakeyawe ,the ineffible.im so happy for him!

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    @Gui said:
    If you let everything be as it is, always acting with clarity according to the situation, this is truly dropping off all fetters._

    When your study
    Of Buddhism is through
    You find
    You haven't anything new.

    When you are abiding in the Unborn, all the time is zazen."

    @misecmisc1,
    Thank you for presenting this. As they say, "in a nutshell".

    Thanks to the website https://terebess.hu/zen/textindex.html for posting the teachings of the Chan/Zen masters.

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    Hi All,
    Today while browsing internet, I found the teachings of Layman Pang at https://terebess.hu/zen/pang.html this website URL, which I found insightful, so thought of sharing with you all. The story of Layman Pang is interesting, which is also mentioned in above URL. Copy-pasting teachings of Layman Pang from the above URL:
    My daily activity is not unusual;
    I just remain in spontaneous harmony.
    Not grasping or rejecting,
    nothing left to assert or oppose.
    What use are fancy titles
    and expensive clothes of vermilion and purple?
    This entire mountain is free
    of even a speck of dust.
    Supernatural powers and miraculous activity:
    fetching water and carrying firewood

    Not willing to let go of grasping and rejecting,
    In vain you labor studying the spiritual path.
    You read the prescription but you don't take the medicine-
    How can you be free from your sickness?
    Grasp “emptiness” and it turns out to be form;
    Grasping form it soon proves impermanent.
    Form and emptiness – neither are my possessions;
    Sitting erect, I see my native home.

    The past is already past-
    Don't try to regain it.
    The present doesn't stay-
    Don't try to grasp it over and over.
    The future isn't here yet-
    Don't ponder it beforehand.
    When the three times are revealed as non-existent,
    mind is the same as awakened nature.
    To quietly function relying on emptiness-
    This is manifesting profound action.
    Not even the least phenomena really exists-
    Whatever comes to the eye, leave it be.
    No rules to be kept, no filth to be cleaned;
    With empty mind truly revealed,
    All things no longer have birth or death.
    When you are like this
    The ultimate achievement is finished.

    No-greed surpasses charity.
    No-delusion surpasses concentration.
    No-ill will surpasses morality.
    No-self-centered thinking surpasses cultivating connections.
    I follow an ordinary person's affairs,
    and at night sleep at ease.
    In winter I use the fireplace
    with the fire that's free of smoke.
    I neither fear the dark spirit of misfortune,
    nor seek after her sister good luck.
    Trusting in the flow, what's needed comes.
    We all ride together in the boat of wisdom -
    if you have this understanding,
    your merit has no bounds.

    When the mind's left as is,
    the spirit is naturally empty.
    Without a need for medicine,
    ills disperse of themselves.
    When ills disperse,
    the jewel in the lotus appears.
    Don't worry over affairs,
    don't rush around!
    The wise, seeing wealth and craving,
    know them to be empty illusions.
    Food and clothes sustain body and life,
    but only for awhile.-
    I advise you to learn being as is.
    When it's time I move my hermitage and go,
    and there's nothing left behind.

    lobsterpaulysoDhammaDragon
  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    layman pang....i bow at your greatness.extraodinary in the ordinary!inspiring,thank you.

  • paulysopaulyso usa Veteran

    bankei....i bow at your greatness.

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    Hi All,
    I came across the below URL having the story of Boatman Monk:
    https://terebess.hu/zen/boatmonk.html

    In the above story in the end, it is said that - Chuanzi held up the oar and said, “Do you say there’s anything else?” He then tipped over the boat and disappeared into the water, never to be seen again.

    The question is why did Chuanzi made himself drowned in water? Can an enlightened person ever commit suicide? May be I have misunderstood the above story's end. Can somebody please explain the action of Chuanzi in the end? Please suggest. Thanks.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    It doesn't say he drowned. It says he disappeared without a trace. That's different.

    It is probably an allegorical tale, with an equivalent ending to "My work here is done". He had no further need to be present, so he left the student to take his place as Master.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited December 10

    From the same link, different version:

    Then the master overturned his boat and disappeared in the water to
    show that when one is enlightened, one is free to come and free to go.
    This is only possible after one has obtained enlightenment. This was also
    to show Chia Shan that the transmission was actually handed down to
    him and that he should take over the master's mission which was now
    ended on this earth, but would begin in another world where other living
    beings were waiting for him.

    So, as I said, probably figurative, somewhat allegorical and probably a it fanciful, too...

    Finally...

    ...Then he capsized the boat and disappeared under the water to show there was nothing else. >You see, if you cling to all the pageantry of Tibetan Buddhism, you are wrong. It's just an expedient method created to help you REALIZE THIS. If you cling to the Torah or Bible, you are wrong. It's just to help you lay a foundation so you can experientially realize this. Nothing in the universe is absolute. The wind, the rocks, the flowers are all singing the dharma to help you awaken.

    The meaning of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucianism, yoga, alchemy and all the religions is to realize our fundamental nature. All the ceremonies, scriptures, prayers, and practices are to enable you to experientially realize THIS. That's the purpose of all the scriptures.

    What else did you think it was about? Some ceremony or special belief?

    Now you finally know. Cultivate!

    misecmisc1
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    Hi All,
    Also read the below koan/story about Xiangyan in Dogen's 300 koan collections:

    Zen master Zhixian of Mount Xiangyan [Xideng] was bright in nature. Being at the
    assembly of Guishan, he was well learned and had extensive memory.
    Guishan one day said to Xiangyan, “Everything you say is what you’ve memorized from
    commentaries. Now I am going to ask you a question. When you were an infant—before
    you could even distinguish east from west—at that time, how was it?”
    Xiangyan spoke and presented his understanding, explaining the principle, but could
    not get approval. He went through the texts he had collected and studied, but he could
    not find an answer that would satisfy the master.
    Deeply grieved and in tears, he burned all his books and commentaries. Then he said
    to himself, “I will never understand Zen in this lifetime. I will become a hermit monastic
    and enter a mountain and practice.”
    Thus he entered Mount Wudang and built a hut near the grave site of National Teacher
    Nanyang. One day while he was sweeping the path, a pebble struck a stalk of bamboo
    and made a cracking sound. At that moment he suddenly had a great enlightenment
    experience. He wrote a poem expressing his understanding:
    One crack and all knowledge has dissolved.
    The struggle is over.
    I follow the ancient Way, not lapsing into doubt.
    Dignified bearing and conduct
    that is beyond sound and form;
    no trace remains of my passing.
    Those who have mastered the Way
    call this the unsurpassable activity.
    He presented this poem to Guishan, who said, “This fellow has penetrated it
    completely.

    A similar story can be found in the website URL https://terebess.hu/zen/xiangyan.html

    Well, I am not going to realize what is the ultimate reality in my this life. Nor can I go to mountains and practice. Nor do I have time to go and search for a teacher. But going forwards, I will try not to study any spiritual teaching from any spiritual teacher. I started with Lord Krishna in Shreemad Bhagwad Geeta, then to Buddha, then to Ajahn Chah, then to Dogen, then to some other enlightened beings' teachings. Its enough for me. I determine not to study any teaching any further, not listen to any dharma talk, no reading of a teaching in a pdf file. But don't know how long can I continue with this not studying any further, because the question comes what would I do in that spare time? Well I don't know what I will do in my spare time. I accept my defeat in my spiritual journey. The teachings of Lord Krishna, Buddha, Ajhan Chah, Dogen and someother enlightened beings was good - but it was good for Lord Krishna, Buddha, Ajahn Chah, Dogen and those someother enlightened beings respectively - but not good for me. May be I am in those human beings, who got the good fortune of a human birth, got the opportunity to read and understand the spiritual teachings, but still not able to actualize the teachings for themselves - I accept this situation and I accept my defeat in my spiritual journey.
    I also accept my defeat in the external world - My parents have told me explicitly that I am not a good son and so I cannot be a good father. I know that I am not a good husband too. So I accept my defeat in the external world too. As far as my current contract work is concerned, I just go to office, do what I am said to do and leave the laptop in office when I return to my rented room. So I am not a good professional worker too.
    To summarize, I accept that I am a total failure in all the aspects of human life and I also currently do not want to change this situation - may be later I may desire to change this situation, but as of now I do not want to change this situation.
    If that was my destiny that even though I got a fortunate human birth, yet I was not good either in external or in spiritual worlds and I completely wasted my human life, then I accept this as my destiny and currently I do not have any desire to change it. I don't know if I may desire to change this situation in the next second or next minute and again try to come a good person in either external or spiritual world and again try to seek understanding of ultimate reality from other enlightened sentient beings.
    What will I do in my future time - I don't know. Am I sad now? No. Am I happy now? No. Just sitting in office, had some spare time, so wrote this post. Thanks to all who have taken their time to read this post and I am sorry if I wasted your time in reading of my this post. I am not going to read this post again to see if there is some spelling mistake somewhere. If there is some spelling mistake in my this post or some grammatically incorrect statements, then I am sorry for these mistakes.

    May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited December 11

    Congratulations. Join one of the best-loved personalities in the UK.
    You're in good company..

    misecmisc1
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited December 11

    Never give up @misecmisc1

    "Great Faith and Great Doubt are two ends of a spiritual walking stick. We grip one end with the grasp given to us by our Great Determination. We poke into the underbrush in the dark on our spiritual journey. This act is real spiritual practice -- gripping the Faith end and poking ahead with the Doubt end of the stick. If we have no Faith, we have no Doubt. If we have no Determination, we never pick up the stick in the first place."

    ~Sensei Sevan Ross~

    misecmisc1lobsterDhammaDragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited December 12

    Its enough for me. <3

    Well that is you done then ... o:)

    However flaw polishers and floor polishers can still be of service to The Truth, she may be nearer than you suspect as @Shoshin illustrates ... o:)

    Now you finally know. Cultivate!

    Sounds like a plan. Who knows what may come of it ... Good luck ... B)

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @misecmisc1 I think at some point leaving the spiritual path can be good for our evolution, so you say you are not going to search for a teacher, or study any spiritual teaching, and this too may be a step for you.

    You have to drop the teachings at some stage in order to see what you think deep inside, rather than what external materials you have filled your head with. It’s time to see to what extent you have been transformed, to let it all settle and see what it has done to you.

    But I think it then matters to see what else is filling your head. The likes of Xiangyan took years of living on the mountainside in solitude in order to penetrate their own inner being, if they had been forced to complete programming tasks do you think they would have been able to do this?

    Perhaps you might consider finding a livelihood which requires less thinking, if you truly wish to give the inside time to settle?

    misecmisc1
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited December 13

    @Kerome said:
    @misecmisc1 I think at some point leaving the spiritual path can be good for our evolution, so you say you are not going to search for a teacher, or study any spiritual teaching, and this too may be a step for you.

    You have to drop the teachings at some stage in order to see what you think deep inside, rather than what external materials you have filled your head with. It’s time to see to what extent you have been transformed, to let it all settle and see what it has done to you.

    But I think it then matters to see what else is filling your head. The likes of Xiangyan took years of living on the mountainside in solitude in order to penetrate their own inner being, if they had been forced to complete programming tasks do you think they would have been able to do this?

    Perhaps you might consider finding a livelihood which requires less thinking, if you truly wish to give the inside time to settle?

    Thanks @Kerome for your suggestions. Well, honestly speaking it is just 1 day passed since I thought that I will not read any spiritual teaching, but today itself I read some Zen teachings, because I had some spare time in office and my mind was getting crazy in trying to figure out what to do in that spare time, so I thought to read some Zen teachings through the website URL https://terebess.hu/zen/zen.html#2 .
    There is an important point in your last line - Perhaps you might consider finding a livelihood which requires less thinking, if you truly wish to give the inside time to settle? - the part "if you truly wish to give the inside time to settle" - I think this raises the fundamental question of how serious I am about seeking the Truth. If I have to answer it honestly, I think I lack the true motivation of finding Ultimate Reality. I think that I am just a hypocrite because let me tell you what I have observed about myself - last year when I was working in India and I had my family staying along with me at a rented flat, then in last year I used to think that since my family is along with me, so even on weekends I am not able to do meditation all day. Then in this year, currently I am in Australia alone at a rented room, with my family in India, now when I go to my room in evening, even though I have some spare time, I give myself reasons like see tomorrow I have to go to office, so better sleep early - in morning if I get early, then I give myself reason like see yesterday I slept late and that is why I should sleep a little more and then I sleep and then get up later with the alarm and then go to office. In office I have some spare time and I think if I would not be working currently, then I would have more time to practice meditation. Now the height of all this stuff - in weekends, when I do not have to go to office, there is a temple nearby where I can go in morning and stay whole day till evening and they have a quiet room too, so I can meditate if I want, then what is actually happening is this - weekend comes, I go this quiet place in the temple, try to sit for say 25 min with my mind getting entangled in thoughts and then may be walk for 10 min and after that I think let me drink some coffee and have some snacks - then with coffee and snacks nearly 2 hours go by which includes chatting with others - then when I try to sit, then my mind just gets entangled in thoughts and I try to read some spiritual teaching from internet through my mobile - then may be have another coffee, try to sit for sometime and then by 3 pm feeling it has been a long day, even though I came to the temple by around 10am and then may be another coffee and then leave by 4 pm. So technically speaking, even though I have whole 2 days in weekend, in which if I really wanted I could have put effort in my spiritual path, but I did not rather just gave excuses for myself and I was lazy.

    Hi All,
    So I think one problem is that even though I think I want to find out what is the ultimate reality, but my this wanting is not strong enough. So the question comes to - How to get myself more motivated towards finding out the ultimate reality?
    Any ideas please suggest. Thanks.

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited December 13

    Hi All,
    Another problem which I think is inside me is that even though I feel inside me that I am doing something holy in trying to pursue a spiritual path to find the ultimate reality, but again here I am being a hypocrite since leave about being holy, I think I am not even a good person, as if you all remember about the problem of lust in my mind which I told about earlier, that problem of lust is now manifesting before me as since I am in Australia and here it is summer time and most of the girls prefer mini-skirts with their legs shining, it is very difficult for me to not develop feelings of lust in my mind. So in office, I try to not see the ladies by looking at my laptop. But sometimes my mind says that - look at those girls, they are looking sexy in their dress and then I look at those girls. Also it is not possible not to see beautiful sexy girls in public transport, in office, in shopping malls - most of the girls seem to be moving in mini-skirts just like a TV model. Moreover, not only Australian girls, even Indian girls seem to easily move around in mini-skirts here in Australia. So the feeling of lust keeps on developing within my mind currently. So what should I do to not develop feelings of lust in my mind? Any ideas here please. So please suggest. Thanks.

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @misecmisc1 I think you’re doing well, you have arrived at a clearer understanding of yourself by looking realistically. That is not a bad thing at all.

    Not everyone is a super motivated Buddhist, however much we may imagine ourselves to be one by immersing ourselves in the stories and lore of Buddhism. We all do the best we can, and sometimes find the time and motivation to take an extra step.

    In terms of the lust, well, the mind does what it does. I would try to develop further the habit of letting go of thoughts, so you can take a step back and watch them come and go. Mindfulness of the breath may also be helpful.

    misecmisc1lobster
  • I think that I am just a hypocrite

    Me too. What is the remedy? Please suggest.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    I think my mother once summed things up directly when she suggested, "Don't get too holy by next Thursday."

    lobster
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    You are a layman, @misecmisc1, so feelings of lust are pretty normal and should be treated as such.

    Hypocrites are those who pretend to be "holier-than-thou," and repress what are simply natural urges.

    Natural urges which are not given a natural oulet get twisted into unnatural cravings.
    What we repress, what we refuse to accept, comes back to haunt us in more twisted ways.
    What we attempt to control, controls us.

    I am a Buddhist, but I am not a nun.
    I drink, I have fun, I have sex, I love the good things in life and do not feel the least Buddhist for it.

    I enjoy but do not crave.
    Enjoy so that normal pleasures allowed to laypeople don't turn into cravings.
    Peace with ourselves is cessation of suffering.

    misecmisc1lobster
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited December 15

    Hi All,

    I am not into poetry, but when I read the book The Poetry of Enlightenment - Poems by Ancient Chan Masters by Chan Master Sheng-Yen, then poetry seemed interesting. I don't remember how but when I was doing Google search for Chan master's teachings or may be their poems, then the below link came up, which I opened and found insightful:
    https://terebess.hu/zen/chang/HanshanPoems.pdf
    So thought of sharing with you all, specially to those who are interested in poetry. It has many poems, I have not read all of them till now, but in the process of reading it. The poems seem to be insightful.

    The links containing the teachings of Chan Zen teachers, which I have posted in this thread including the above link in this post, is a Christmas gift from me to all of you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you in advance.

    May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

    Jeffrey
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    The introduction is 20 pages long, and there are a lot of 'this page is intentionally left blank' in between. But get to the poems themselves - and they are truly lovely. Very evocative.
    Nice, @misecmisc1 .

    The links containing the teachings of Chan Zen teachers, which I have posted in this thread including the above link in this post, is a Christmas gift from me to all of you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you in advance.
    May all sentient beings be peaceful, happy, safe, protected, healthy, strong, have ease of well-being and accept all the conditions of the world.

    Thank you. and the very same to you.

  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran

    @Kerome and @DhammaDragon for your suggestions regarding my problem of lust. But may be you did not understand it completely. Let me explain in more detail. There are few girls in my office, who I find sexually attractive. I try not to see them but since we are in same office, I am not able to avoid seeing them. When I see them, my mind starts to think sexual fantasies inside - for example, my mind thinks - let me ask that girl for a dinner tonight or let me develop my friendship with her, then I can get close to her, then kiss her and then ask her to come with me to my bedroom and then after undress ourselves, we can do the complete sexual intercourse on my bed using condoms for protection of course, so that I can avoid the risk of that girl getting pregnant after my this one night stand with her.
    By above, you can see how much problem of list I am having. Also, just to add here to show what worse person I am, the thing is when my wife asks for this sexual intercourse because she wants our second child, then since I do not want a second child currently, so I deny her.
    So please suggest what should I do to remove this problem of lust from me. Thanks.

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited 1:42AM

    If you're finding it hard to overcome your lustful desires through Dharma practice (That is, it is causing you discomfort mentally and you find it difficult to stick with de-lusting meditation techniques- lacking 'self' discipline )...Then it may be time for you to seek out professional help eg counselling...
    Here're a couple of links
    Sex Therapy

    Sex Therapy
    Both provide Online counselling :)

    You're not a 'bad' person @misecmisc1... just somebody struggling to stay afloat in the waters of Samsara...
    At times one might be on the raft under full sail, when all of a sudden a Dukkha wave hits and capsizes the raft...

  • techietechie India Veteran

    @misecmisc1 said:
    @Kerome and @DhammaDragon for your suggestions regarding my problem of lust. But may be you did not understand it completely. Let me explain in more detail. There are few girls in my office, who I find sexually attractive. I try not to see them but since we are in same office, I am not able to avoid seeing them. When I see them, my mind starts to think sexual fantasies inside - for example, my mind thinks - let me ask that girl for a dinner tonight or let me develop my friendship with her, then I can get close to her, then kiss her and then ask her to come with me to my bedroom and then after undress ourselves, we can do the complete sexual intercourse on my bed using condoms for protection of course, so that I can avoid the risk of that girl getting pregnant after my this one night stand with her.
    By above, you can see how much problem of list I am having. Also, just to add here to show what worse person I am, the thing is when my wife asks for this sexual intercourse because she wants our second child, then since I do not want a second child currently, so I deny her.
    So please suggest what should I do to remove this problem of lust from me. Thanks.

    The problem here isn't spiritual. It is society. You have lived most of your life in India, I presume? So have I. Fact is, India is a sexually repressed society, basically a soft version of the taliban. But now that you have moved to a liberal society like Australia, all the repressed feelings are coming out in the open. This isn't a spiritual problem at all but something very natural. That which you've repressed for decades will come out sooner or later with more force.

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