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Love and transformation

KeromeKerome Love, love is mysteryThe Continent Veteran
edited November 25 in General Banter

I’ve been thinking about this over the last few days, and I keep coming back to experiences from my past and present which illustrate the power of love to transform. Osho once said that the relationship between a master and a disciple is like a love affair, that there is a deep connection of trust and love which is the basis of the transformation that the disciple goes through. That this is something that you feel when you meet the teacher who is right for you.

My stepfather is now 81, he too was an Osho sanyassin, one of the early ones who showed up in the mid 1970’s when one-on-one contact was still possible. He has the temperament of a hermit, and is a gifted artist. But now that he is older, he has hearing aids, three pairs of glasses and his memory is not so good anymore. He functions on checklists, stomach tablets, check; hearing aids batteries, check; keys, check... and even then sometimes he goes wrong. So in his old age he has become more and more dependent on my mother, and slowly he is yielding in different ways, surrendering, letting her take care.

Like many original Osho followers, he has a special feel to him, a kind of trust. My mother has this too, a loving and compassionate presence. They’ve negotiated the world’s difficulties and have trust in existence. It’s something I’ve seen in Buddhists too, there it often manifests as a softness, a gentleness. It’s like they have dealt with any traces of callousness, ruthlessness, coldness within their nature, and replaced it with kindness, well-wishing, empathic feeling.

Have you noticed this in your life? That those who have truly given of themselves to follow a spiritual path cannot avoid encountering love, and being transformed by it? That an encounter with a spiritual teacher you really connect with also has the nature of a loving relationship?

DhammaDragonShoshin

Comments

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 25

    I can't open that file, @Kerome ... However, I love the gist of your post.
    I don't personally, directly know anyone who completely fits the bill; all I have to go on are those whose books I have read, and I get that feeling from them. From the lowly to the highest, there is an air of grace about them*, it's hard to put a finger on it.
    I'm currently striving to approach life from their perspective and walk, like Good King Wenceslas' meek Page, in their footsteps... I'm a long way behind though, but every step is a learning process....

    It's important to understand that meek doesn't mean timid or fearful... I embrace the challenge and succeed or fail, I am trying...

    (* ETA - Even those whose characters have come under scrutiny and are open to question: Sogyal Rinpoche is under fire, currently. What the truth of the matter is, we shall never fully know. But I love the tone and timbre of his worthy and groundbreaking book....)

    HozandhammachickDhammaDragon
  • HozanHozan Veteran

    Not trying is the only real failure @federica . I also embrace tbe challenge. I too am trying...

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I can be VERY trying, sometimes - ! :D

    dhammachickBunks
  • I have a friend who is not Buddhist but Muslim, and he has a certain energy about him. When we talk about religion, there’s a clarity there, and real respect and love. I know this isn’t quite what you mean, but what you said, @Kerome, put me in mind of him.

    And I was also reminded of Tenzin Palmo’s relationship with her lama in Cave in the Snow.

    Thanks for the lovely post. I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this. I’ll ask my friend if he’s ever had a teacher he connected with like this.

    Shoshin
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    Love and transformation
    Have you noticed this in your life? That those who have truly given of themselves to follow a spiritual path cannot avoid encountering love, and being transformed by it? That an encounter with a spiritual teacher you really connect with also has the nature of a loving relationship?

    After a while one comes to understand Dukkha (unsatisfactoriness) & Samsara (cyclic existence) and their impact upon "all' sentient beings...We know that hurt people hurt people in other words an unskillful act stems from a dissatisfied mind...mental affliction is the driving force behind one's unskillful actions eg thoughts words and deeds...(Mood swings come to mind)

    I've found that ongoing Dharma practice (meditation on and off the cushion) helps one to hold Metta within one's heart mind, (and helps one to see that others also want to be free from suffering) which quickly enables one to nip unwholesome thoughts ( that could lead to unskillful actions) in the bud, when confrontational situations arise (that's Dukkha for ya)...The mind gradually frees itself from the charms of its own unwholesome thought patterns

    Loving Kindness (whether giving or receiving) has a transformative nature/qualities...
    (Well this is how I'm finding it) :) ...

    Or it could all be just an illusion (be it a very persistent one) :)

    DhammaDragon
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem Recidivist Samsarist Veteran

    I was going to post something similar to your thread, @Kerome, but from another perspective.

    While there is a lot of positive things to be said in the relationship between a student and their teacher, when could this turn negative?

    I know a woman who is not Osho-related, but very much into a certain Hindu ashram.
    She is into guru devotion and completely accepting of her guru's will.
    Twice did she change her spiritual name because her guru changed it for her, and got very upset when we discussed sect brainwashing in the forum where I met her.

    She claimed that one had to embrace one's guru in a complete way.
    I am very wary of relinquishing my personal responsibility and accountability....

    ShoshinCarlita
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    HHDL recommends examining one's teacher for many years before accepting their teachings and devoting one's self to their instructions and tutelage.
    Some are born foolish, some achieve foolhardiness, others have it foisted on them.
    It's sadly likely that she - like many others in other lines of worship - has arrived at the decision that decisions should be made for her....

  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @DhammaDragon said:
    While there is a lot of positive things to be said in the relationship between a student and their teacher, when could this turn negative?

    I find it a difficult question to answer. Osho’s teaching on this was that the heart will know, you follow your feelings for a certain person. It can lead to excessive trust, but what is excessive? The heart expressing its love for a special man or woman can still transform you.

    I know a woman who is not Osho-related, but very much into a certain Hindu ashram.
    She is into guru devotion and completely accepting of her guru's will.
    Twice did she change her spiritual name because her guru changed it for her, and got very upset when we discussed sect brainwashing in the forum where I met her.

    In Tibetan Buddhism you can find similar attitudes, although perhaps more limited to just spiritual guidance. For example take guru yoga, it’s a whole meditative discipline for working with one’s guru.

    It’s a question of individual paths, I think for some people it can be the right direction. I know of someone who I met online who is also very much into guru devotion, and is convinced she will be guided to him on the astral plane after she passes away.

    She claimed that one had to embrace one's guru in a complete way.
    I am very wary of relinquishing my personal responsibility and accountability....

    I don’t think you can avoid keeping your own accountability. You can try to give it away, but you’ll find it is an illusion, something temporary. The thing is, giving it away will show a little the burdens you place on yourself, and that is a good side of doing it at least once.

    DhammaDragonCarlita
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited November 29

    Have you noticed this in your life? That those who have truly given of themselves to follow a spiritual path cannot avoid encountering love, and being transformed by it? That an encounter with a spiritual teacher you really connect with also has the nature of a loving relationship?

    If we love ice cream, a narcissist, abusive guru or our opinions, it may lead to an understanding of Real Spiritual Love ... or nowhere of any benefit ... Depends on our ability to move on, learn, find the lesson etc. ...

    A spiritual teacher, Sangha serves us, not the other way around ... Being duped, besotted or addicted to ice cream gurus is not the same as a genuine relationship with that which progresses us.

    As an example @adamcrossley mentions a Moslem friend. One of my teachers was a street light. I don't build shrines to street lights or carry ice cream around in a Rolls Royce ... :p

    I have met deluded or useless 'teachers' from various tradititions and the enlightened from no tradition. Love can be just a masking. Strangely enough it is only part of The Way ... B)

    George Burns — 'Sincerity - if you can fake that, you've got it made.'

    Traveller
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