Would I truly go to hell?

Seeker567

If I am a truly loving person, kind, generous, etc., would the all loving Christian god send me to hell for all of eternity because I do not believe that Jesus was the son of god?? sorry I don't know much about Christianity

Jeffrey

who told you about this?

shanyin

Dogmas and such seem so vague and unclear from the Christian religion.

On your question, I'm sure one Christian friend I have would say yes, but not for eternity.

So what do we have to do? Accept Jesus is Son of God, or stop sinning?

Or repent?

Or be saved?

I'm still unclear.

Maybe out of rationality I should figure it out and then do it just for the chance I may go to hell if I don't...

sigh.

hermitwin

'Why do I accept god?" 'Why not?' 'Its a safe bet"
Pascal.

genkaku

Become a Buddhist. Buddhism is not threat-based. You won't go to heaven if you practice it and you won't go to hell if you don't.

More seriously, pay attention to what you believe. Living according to other people's beliefs doesn't work very well.

SherabDorje

According to most mainstream Christian denominations, yes, you would go to hell.

Seeker567

Become a Buddhist. Buddhism is not threat-based. You won't go to heaven if you practice it and you won't go to hell if you don't.

More seriously, pay attention to what you believe. Living according to other people's beliefs doesn't work very well.

yeah I try my best to follow the buddhas dharma. I consider myself a follower of the way. and I love the ending. thanks so much

Jeffrey

If the Christian god is all loving so he would also love the devil. One guy said he had friends in heaven and hell so he said he would be with friends.

Roger

I have a feeling we are already in hell (small "h" so as not to glorify it).

My private hell sucks..., but..., not at all as much as lots of other peoples' private hells suck! Then again there's lots of room and opportunity for things to get better and worse for us all: hell-wise.

Gotta follow the path and seek only enlightenment so this doesn't happen to "me" again.

(kidding)

compassionate_warrior

If I am a truly loving person, kind, generous, etc., would the all loving Christian god send me to hell for all of eternity because I do not believe that Jesus was the son of god?? sorry I don't know much about Christianity

I think you're asking the wrong people. Ask a Christian.
Seeker, I think a Christian god (well, maybe depending which denomination you're dealing with...) would send you to hell just for the visions you sometimes see, no matter what you think about Jesus. And who said the Christian god is all-loving? He was pretty intimidating in the Old Testament, I've heard. Even downright destructive.

zidangus

According to most mainstream Christian denominations, yes, you would go to hell.

Maybe but don't forget that Christians also teach that God forgives everyone, so maybe not.

Metta to all sentient beings

compassionate_warrior

Maybe but don't forget that Christians also teach that God forgives everyone, so maybe not.

God forgives everyone? Are you sure? Or he forgives those who repent? There's a big difference.

zidangus

Well your right I should have said God forgives those who repent. I can only speak for the catholic church I was brought up as a child with, and as far as I was taught, you could pretty much do anything, and as long as you went to confession God would forgive you of your sins.


Metta to all sentient beings

taiyaki

"Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business. What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy."

— Thomas Merton

MindGate

I talked to a catholic friend of mine today and I asked him if good people (who aren't Christian) go to Hell. He said he personally believes good people go to Heaven instead.

Roger

Well your right I should have said God forgives those who repent.

Oh Goodie! If I'm a model [insert heaven-hell religion here] I can look forward to the ***possibility*** of meeting hitler when I go to Heaven. Cool! I'd like to hear what he's up to now.

Nice to think that he probably went from murderous genocidal tyrant to "PG" rated impish prankster.
(joking)

taiyaki

hey mindgate,

nothing happened. that's the point.

compassionate_warrior

sorry I don't know much about Christianity

If you don't know much about Christianity, why do you care? But after giving your question some more thought, here's what I think:

A Christian god mainly would care that you're kind and generous. I wonder if he/she/it would care whether you believe Jesus is his/her/its son, because the bit about Jesus being the son of god I think was a man-made bit of mythology. If there were a god, he/she/it would know Jesus was a mere mortal. Probably what would be most important to whatever divinity would be the same values and behaviors that are important to Buddhists. But that's just my opinion. All we're doing here is speculating, that's all we can do.

MindGate

hey mindgate,

nothing happened. that's the point. </p>

...What?

Jeffrey

Mu

taiyaki

Christians don't even understand their religion. The kingdom of heaven exists right here and right now. Hell is just attachment to notions of self/other. Hell = samsara. Heaven = nirvana.

Jesus Christ is a narrative about man (Jesus) awakening to his true nature (Christ consciousness). Hence the cross.

The Christian narrative is about you waking up to your christ consciousness. Not praising jesus or god.

This is how the gnostics viewed christianity and I would assert that this is true christianity. Lol

compassionate_warrior

Well your right I should have said God forgives those who repent.

Oh Goodie! If I'm a model [insert heaven-hell religion here] I can look forward to the ***possibility*** of meeting hitler when I go to Heaven. Cool! I'd like to hear what he's up to now.

Did Hitler repent?

Well your right I should have said God forgives those who repent. I can only speak for the catholic church, you could pretty much do anything, and as long as you went to confession God would forgive you of your sins.

This is the one thing I've never been able to swallow about Christianity. So, z, you're telling us that a kid could kill a cat every week, torch people's homes just for fun, use his sister as a punching bag on a regular basis, steal from the toystore, and wreak all manner of other havoc, but so long as he went to confession, he gets off free? Buddhism doesn't work that way, that's what I like about it.

Have fun rubbing elbows with Mengele when you get your Pie in the Sky, z. I think I'll pass.

compassionate_warrior

Jesus Christ is a narrative about man (Jesus) awakening to his true nature (Christ consciousness). Hence the cross.

Not following you, Tai. What does the cross have to do with awakening to one's true nature? (I don't mean to be dense. Does the cross symbolize something?)

Mr_Serenity

Realistic psychology of the keeper of hell. If he got exiled there by someone he hated (meaning if he hated god). Then why would he make hell worse than heaven? Doing so would be giving the person he hates (god) exactly what he wants. Which would be to send the bad people to his realm, so he doesn't have to deal with them in heaven. If he was actually a rebel, and actually disagreed with god he would make hell *better than heaven. And he would probably get all the "bad dudes" being sent to hell and train them up to start a war to over take heaven and to just get back at god in general.

Because if he was doing what god wanted by making hell terrible, then that means god and satan have an alliance and are not really enemies, they're like friends.

taiyaki

the cross symbolizes man meeting his divine nature. man being a product of both the divine and nature. the formless and form. emptiness and form. idk thats just my interpretation.

Jeffrey

compassionate,

would someone who went to church every week and read the bible till he knew it do all those things? I am asking!

Cloud

The human mind is usually quite logical, which is why our sciences are all about observation and testing. If a God that isn't observable, can't be tested for, and some minds simply can not take as existing on "faith" sends those people to Hell... I wouldn't want to believe in that kind of god anyway.

taiyaki

you can test god. it is no longer god. you cannot bottle god into an idea. if you could, you destroy god.

zidangus

"Well your right I should have said God forgives those who repent. I can only speak for the catholic church, you could pretty much do anything, and as long as you went to confession God would forgive you of your sins."

This was one of the things that turned me off Christianity, well none of it made sense to me, very illlogical. However, as I said this is what I was taught as a kid. Of course I am now a Buddhist and I have a different outlook on life. But if people still believe that or anything else, then that's their right to do so.


Metta to all sentient beings

Jeffrey

god may no longer be god but an experience of a test and an observation is still there to rely on

Mountains

I've always wondered about the billions and billions and billions of souls that "God" "created" (according to the Christian view), none of whom, by virtue of their time and/or place of birth ever had a chance to hear about this Jeebus fellow. Were they all condemned to hell for eternity? And if so, whose fault was it? If they were born, lived, and died as part of an isolated hill tribe in New Guinea 1000 years ago, and never saw a white guy, and so never heard of Jeebus, why would they have gone to hell? I don't get that... But whatever...

compassionate_warrior

Well, z was a kid when he was taught Catholicism and went to church. So if we're talking about kids, yeah, there are some disturbed kids who get dragged to church by their parents. There are also disturbed adults: pedophiles, and such. Murderers. ("Oh, it /couldn't/ have been Joe who killed his wife! He's a pillar of the community! Goes to church every Sunday, runs a Bible study group, is a member of the local Rotary chapter, donates generously to the orphanage. No, it wasn't Joe." But it always turns out to be Joe.) Hitler read the Bible, didn't he? All his cronies were into their brand of Christianity.

would someone who went to church every week and read the bible till he knew it do all those things? I am asking!

haha! Great point, Mountains! And what about the apostles and their followers, contemporaries of Jesus, who hadn't heard yet that J was the son of god? (The idea hadn't been invented yet.) Did they go to hell?

Cloud

@zidangus, I was taught to believe in God too when I was a kid, but for whatever reason there was never enough evidence for me to go on. I was mature for my age, always looking for the truth of things. I'd get people telling me to believe or I'd go to hell, and really all I saw was their fear. I wasn't that afraid to believe in something that I couldn't find any evidence of, only old texts that people were clinging to. Guess I was a Buddhist long before I knew about Buddhism.

And it always did bother me that where you were born, what your parents taught you, etc. likely determined your beliefs. I asked my mom if she was born in China would she still be a Christian, and she said no. Finito.

Roger

I really do not want to hurt anybody or cause a kerfuffle. We're just talking, right? OK.

Christ AFAIK made sense. Buddha made/makes sense.

Problem is Christ got hijacked by a movement in his name.

:-/

taiyaki

Christ was too revolutionary for his time. People just didn't get it. Thus they fucked up completely lol.

Mountains

the cross symbolizes man meeting his divine nature. man being a product of both the divine and nature. the formless and form. emptiness and form. idk thats just my interpretation.

Look up the history of the use of the cross as the symbol of Christianity. It was actually Constantine I that started using it. Before his reign (>200 years after Jesus died), early Christians use primarily the fish as a symbol, or sometimes the dove. Somewhat shockingly, you often see the letters "IHS" above or on the Christian cross. That is Latin for "In Hoc Signo" (By This You Will Conquer), Constantine's motto. Pretty shocking when you think about the meaning that bestows on the cross symbol. Perhaps not so shocking when you consider the history of Christianity. Onward Christian soldiers and all...

compassionate_warrior

Problem is Christ got hijacked by a movement in his name. :-/

No worry, Roger--bring on the kerfuffles! We love 'em!

Christ got hijacked by a movement in his name that later got into a serious power and control trip. That's the problem. The Gnostic Christians practiced more like Buddhists; each coming to know "god" via meditation in caves. But the other branch of the "movement" didn't want people acting on their own authority, the religious leaders wanted to dictate to people what they should believe. Thus the Christian church was born, with all its dogma.
- - - - - - - - - -
Wow. Thanks again, Mountains. I understand the dove, by why a fish?

Roger

Yes! This was a great read for me a few years ago! Pretty much the only "true" exposition on Christ (at least in my amateur mind). I'm glad you mentioned G. c_w.

compassionate_warrior

Elaine Pagels is good at analyzing the Gnostic gospels, too. Have you read her work, Roger?

Roger

Elaine Pagels is good at analyzing the Gnostic gospels, too. Have you read her work, Roger?

Negative. I'm not very focussed in the reading list department. I just seem to pick stuff up from the language/mind/buddhism/modern-20thC.-art arena and read it. Gonna check it out though. Thanks! Off to Amazon.

compassionate_warrior

Roger, I'm still trying to figure out how Hitler got into heaven. Did he repent before committing suicide? Who let all that riff-raff past the pearly gates, anyway??! Isn't someone supposed to be screening people? :shake: :grumble:

MindGate

Roger, I'm still trying to figure out how Hitler got into heaven. Did he repent before committing suicide? Who let all that riff-raff past the pearly gates, anyway??! Isn't someone supposed to be screening people? :shake: :grumble:

That would be Saint Peter. He must of been taking a vacation to paradise that day - oh, wait, what?

compassionate_warrior

I guess he fell asleep at the crucial time...
Who appointed that airhead to be the guardian of the gates, anyway? Really, I think heads should roll over this one, don't you, MG? I mean, that Peter guy REALLY messed up royally!

MindGate

Just a quick little question, who seems worse to you?

Man A: Created evil. Killed the entire earths population, except for a select few. Required offerings to appease Himself. Condoned rape and slavery. Commanded rape to be done. Declared wars. Destroyed cities because they upset him. Killed people for watching him destroy the city. Allowed a devout follow of this man to live a terrible life just to test his faith. Damns people to eternal damnation because they reject believing in an ancient book which is all about Him. And reincarnated Himself just to get killed because he had a problem with forgiving people.

OR

Man B: Wanted the power that Man A has, ruined a man's life with Man A's permission, and made a naked lady eat a magic, forbidden fruit.

Who seems worse?

Man A is God and Man B is Satan.

Perhaps they SHOULD have put Man B in charge.

compassionate_warrior

um.....*cough*.... erk? :crazy:

Seeker567

Just a quick little question, who seems worse to you?

Man A: Created evil. Killed the entire earths population, except for a select few. Required offerings to appease Himself. Condoned rape and slavery. Commanded rape to be done. Declared wars. Destroyed cities because they upset him. Killed people for watching him destroy the city. Allowed a devout follow of this man to live a terrible life just to test his faith. Damns people to eternal damnation because they reject believing in an ancient book which is all about Him. And reincarnated Himself just to get killed because he had a problem with forgiving people.

OR

Man B: Wanted the power that Man A has, ruined a man's life with Man A's permission, and made a naked lady eat a magic, forbidden fruit.

Who seems worse?

Man A is God and Man B is Satan.

Perhaps they SHOULD have put Man B in charge.

so true xD lol when I said I didn't know much about Christianity, I wasn't very clear. I was actually raised Christian, but I don't know all their advanced concepts and regulations

Jeffrey

Whose worse Barney or Fred? From Flintstones. Or mr slate?

MindGate

Fred, because his name is shorter.

Jeffrey

I cannot refute that.

compassionate_warrior

Are you guys saying that Satan's name is Fred?

Jeffrey

he would still be better than god with only four letters.