Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Vegetarianism
Is everybody here vegetarian or vegan? Am I the only meat eater? How exactly does eating meat or not apply to Buddhism?
0
Comments
Most Tibetans are meat eaters as farming on the Tibetan plateau isn't really possible.
The monastic rules that the Buddha laid down are for people not to kill their food or to eat meat that they know or suspect was killed specifically for them to eat. Its supposedly ok to eat meat thats killed for general use though.
However there's a lot of debate about eating meat in any manner adds to the number of animals killed. Also the modern day factory farms are dreadful places and a buddhist sensibility would probably want to not contribute to that.
That being said I think it is very important to consider where your meat comes from. Person is extremely right when talking about the terrible conditions that most modern factory farms have. I would suggest just trying to buy organic wherever possible if you can. You can even research the company that you bought it from to see if they truly do respect they're product. The internet is an amazing thing!
Lastly I think Jeffrey's mention of taking a day or week or what have you to devote to mindfully consider the idea of vegetarianism is a great idea! I had never heard of or considered this before, but I think I may work it in to my practice to take a day or so out and meditate on how thankful I am to our animal friends for allowing me to go on living.
Thanks,
Leon
I would be happy to post some recipes! Its alot easier then one thinks to cook a cruelty free meal. I have a few Cookbooks too. I will post the titles in a little bit. Im not home to fetch them at the moment. I will start a new thread tonight that will have some recipes and book titles.
If you look at the intestines of a meat eating creature, it is very short, and the stomachs ecosystem is designed to quickly bream down meat, whereas the digestive tract of a human being has a far less corrosive makeup, and a much longer intestines.
Why? Because a higher acidic content in the human stomach would destroy the nutrients found in legumes, many vegetables, and fruits. The longer intestines is meant to fully process food using a much slower process.
So what happens when we eat meat? The meat is not fully broken down in the stomach, and therefore moves into the intestines for the slow food processing our bodies are suited too. The meat often spends enough time in our intestines to begin to literally rot, releasing toxins into the body, causing minor ulcers which further aid in the influence of these toxins, and preventing the proper digestion of other nutrients.
If developments of evolution were to support our consumption of mass quantities of meat, then our digestive systems would more closely resemble that of other meat consuming creatures on earth.
Look at the closest relatives of our species. What does their diet look like? It doesn't contain a lot of meat. And the meat that it does have is not even close to the same type or volume consumed in the average modern man's diet.
Saying you cannot get all the nutrients we need, or that a high protein diet is unachievable through a vegetarian diet is simply false. But because of food marketing in the modern world, it takes more attention to diet and a bit of planning.
The main reason I'm not a vegetarian is due to laziness. I'm just not motivated enough to take the time to make vegetarian meals at home that I can take to work and eat cold. I usually eat out during the day and the non-meat options are pretty slim. If I'm working near a buffet its much easier to eat vegetarian, though I generally do still put some chicken on my plate.
Fri-Chik...Big Franks...Swiss Steak...Skallops...just typing these names makes my mouth water. Fri-Chik is in huge demand by the carnivores in my family (I'm veggie).
The companies are Worthington and Loma Linda; the modern non-Advenist fake meats have also gotten fabulous (Boca, etc.)
My local big grocery stores carries both, so maybe yours will, too, but here's a webpage that includes recipes:
http://www.worthingtonfoods.com/
(Looks like the companies have combined - didn't know that 'til now!)
The Gourmet Vegetarian is also loaded with ideas:
http://thegourmetvegetarian.com/
I come from three generations of vegetarians, and everyone was exceptionally healthy, so I'm sort of biased against the notion that meat is required for health, but as with any diet, getting the right ratios (i.e. starch/veggie) is important!
Good luck on your adventure - a worthy one, in my opinion! Also makes it easier to stay slim, in my experience.
Oh - one last book - Anticancer by David Servan-Schreiber. Fantastic, uplifting read, and addresses food in a big, big way. You can usually get a like-new hardback for like $17.
I am struggling, as I don't have much time, but I want to cook veggie meals. This is what I have been eating....Salads, Rice, Frozen Veggies, Nuts, Raisins, Pasta, Peanut Butter and Jelly, Protein Bars, Veggie Patties, Soups, Sushi of course Fruits and Veggies. I think that covers it. Any suggestions? I have been searching and haven't found 30 min veggie meals. Any suggestions? Thank You!:)
I hunt for meat, as well as fish occasionally, and buy locally raised livestock products (meat, milk, eggs). However, the amount of actual meat I eat on a regular basis is very little, and mostly fish or game.
@frequency86 do you by chance have a study to reference for this info/book/article? I'm curious.
but i would say that i just finished my last flirtation with meat. i would have thought that after slowly introducing it to my diet over a year that my body would adjust a little better, but some health problems has convinced me that i just wasn't meant to eat meat. i don't really care though and to be honest, it's sort of a relief to stop straddling the fence. i have also determined that my body is sort of atypical in this way, but whatever... all i can say is that i feel better when i stick to a healthy vegetarian diet. (and yes, 'healthy' is an important word because there's still tons of unhealthy veg items)
Red beans and rice
Start the rice first (brown rice may take longer than 30 minutes)
* 2 cans small red beans (not kidney beans, smaller) drained
* 2 TBSP soy sauce
* 1 tsp basil and chili powder
* 1/2 tsp cumin
* 1/4 tsp oregano
* pinch cayenne
* 1 minced clove garlic
Combine all the above and simmer for 10 minutes. (You can also use dried beans and soak 4 cups water to 1 cup dry beans, cook for 2 hours, you will get about 2 cups cooked beans)
Add
* 2 tomatoes chopped
* 2 TBSP olive oil
Simmer until tomatoes start to break down. Serve over the rice. Really good with some green salad.
How i see is that i feel guilty if i eat meat.
guilty of killing animals that were grown and suffer their whole life for this only purpose.
Animals are my friends, if i had a cow i would love her, give her a name and take good care of her, therefore i don't want to give cows suffering and murdering them just so i can taste them if i have another alternative.
Same with pigs, if i had a pig i would love im, same with chicken... even fish.
I don't eat eggs but i have less of a moral problem eating eggs from free run farms.
also have much less of a moral problem eating meat from animals that have been raised in a farm where they can run around and have a chance to be free and happy.
"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you."
The major point of contention is how "if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk" is to be interpreted in the light of the consumer driven mass meat market in the west.
Most Buddhists who eat meat don't see the butcher as falling under this rule because the specific animal has not been killed specifically for you. Or more correctly, because you have not asked specifically for that animal to be killed. I, however, find this to be an incorrect interpretation and kind of along the lines of having a mercenary murder someone and thinking you are not guilty of murder ... Kind of a 'loop-hole' that has opened up in light of a system of food distribution that did not exist in the Buddhas time.
the way I view it is that the animal was killed, specifically for the 'consuming public'... and you, by purchasing, make yourself part of that consuming public therefor directly contributing to the death of animals. the animal was not slaughtered specifically for you by name, but it was slaughtered specifically for you as a consumer who is choosing to buy the meat. therefor I would assume that buying meat in a market does make it 'suspected to have been killed on purpose for you'.
This conclusion can be drawn in positives and negatives:
1) Cow has been slaughtered for consumer. You purchase the meat, therefor making yourself the consumer. Therefor the cow has been slaughtered for you.
2) Slaughter is done only to the point of consumer demand. Therefor the less consumers, the less meat slaughtered. Therefor the act of consumption increases the amount of animals slaughtered, and the act of abstaining from consumption decreases the amount of animals slaughtered.
Even if you disagree with this interpretation, the fact remains that consuming meat contributes to a system that causes the most horrendous suffering imaginable and death of BILLIONS of living beings every year. We can easily see the horrible horrible suffering these animals are subjected to on youtube. Its tough to watch, but imo, is your responsibility if you are consuming meat to understand. To put the unfathomable amount of death in perspective, EACH DAY 23 million chickens are killed in the U.S. for food... that's 269 deaths per second JUST IN THE U.S!
However, this is only because I have the privilege to do so. I make enough and live in the right place to afford me to do so. Many people around the world cannot and must eat meat and animal products. I do not believe that means they will acquire bad karma. If you can be a vegetarian or a vegan, I say do it. I personally feel better when I don't eat it (and not just emotionally). It is only hard if you do not prepare your meals at the start of the week and go to places to eat without vegetarian or vegan options. Overall, I would say do what feels right to you deep down and what makes you feel optimal. And no, there's not that many nutrients one gets from meat except iron and protein, both of which can be found in many plant sources.
Here is a link camparing characteristics of carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores.
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html#table
There are also some interesting references here
http://www.discover-yoga-online.com/vegetarian-diet.html
But here is an article where a few experts disagree on this subject. Interesting stuff. You can draw your own conclusion.
http://www.rense.com/general20/meant.htm
If you're a noodle guy (or rice, but takes longer), just grab some seasoned seitan--say Italian sausage seasoned. Boils some water for pasta; in the meantime whack up some veggies. Zucchini and tomatoes are fast and easy.
Fry veggies and seitan together in garlic and oil while the pasta boils, then drain pasta and mix all together--voila! It literally takes only as long as it takes to boil pasta.
Here's a quickstart:
1 package seasoned seitan
1 tomato
1 zucchini (or half head broccoli, etc)
2 cloves garlic
1/2 onion (optional)
1/2 pound pasta (or more if you're hungry
2 tbsp olive oil
salt & pepper to taste
1. Put pot of water to boil
2. put 2 tbsp olive oil into frypan on medium heat
3. chop garlic (and onion) and add to oil
4. chop zucchini and tomato
5. turn frypan heat up; add zucchini and seitan to hot garlic oil
6. add salt and pepper and any other spices (dash of oregano, basil, etc)
7. a few min before you drain pasta, add tomato to zucchini/seitan
8. drain pasta; return to pasta pot & add glug of olive oil (prevents sticking)
9. mix pasta around to coat with oil
10. turn heat down on veggie pan
You can either mix the veggie/seitan in with pasta, or keep separate.
When veggies are frying, you can add glug of wine--it will splatter and steam, and that makes it even better! It's not good cooking unless it's messy (my dad's silent mantra).
All of this takes only as long as bringing water to boil (abt 10-20 min, and pasta boil time (8-11 min).
You can easily make it an Asian meal by substituting plain seitan, Chinese spices,and adding soy sauce and vinegar when veggies are frying.
To make it Indian, use rice instead of noodles, and add curry powder instead of Italian spices. A few dollops of yoghurt toward end will give it that nice curry "gravy."
Note: if you don't like seitan, you can use extra firm tofu - fry it very hot in the spices so that it gets chewy and flavorful.
Sorry so much verbage...remember this all takes abt 1/2 hr!
2 tbsp olive oil
1 onion
3-5 cloves garlic
1-2 tbsp curry powder
*1/2 tsp garam masala (optional)
*1/2 tsp cumin (optional)
1 tbsp lemon or lime juice
1 package seitan or block extra firm tofu
1 tomato
1-2 zucchini
any other veggies you want
1 cup yoghurt
salt & pepper to taste
While rice is cooking, (directions follow recipe):
1. Heat olive oil - medium to medium-high
2. chop onion & garlic and add to oil
3. add curry, garam masala and cumin powders & stir around 2 min
4. add lemon juice (makes spicy steam - turn on fan if necessary)
4. after 2-3 minutes, add seitan/tofu - raise heat and stir 5 min
5. add zucchini and/or all other veggies except tomato
6. fry another 5 min
7. add tomato
8. reduce heat and add yoghurt
9. salt and pepper to taste
10. the longer you let curry sit, the yummier it will be - add splash of milk or water if it gets too dry
Rice Method A (batchelor method)
Use rice cooker.
Rice Method B (Chinese finger method)
Pour 1-2 cups white Jasmine rice into pot. Shake pan a few times to make rice even and flat. Cover with enough cold water that, when you poke your finger straight down thru water, resting fingertip lightly on rice surface, the water is about 1 fingerjoint deep. Bring to boil (remove finger first). When water has just boiled down and rice surface starts developing little "pocks", turn heat down to low and cover with lid. It will take about 20 min to finish cooking, depending on your rice variety. Check in 20 min; if it's tender to your liking, turn heat low or off, fluff rice up with a fork and set the lid on crooked (to allow it to dry a little).
If you like your rice dryer and less sticky, rinse the rice a couple times before going through the above steps (poor in cold water, rub rice between hands, pour off milky water, repeat).
You'll get very fast at this and the whole thing will take 1/2 hour!
Veggie Enchiladas
Chop approx. 6 boiled eggs, a can of chopped olives, 1 cup of grated cheese or more (to taste), salt, pepper, cilantro would probably be good.
Heat a can or two of enchilada sauce. Take corn tortillas, fill each one with spoonfulls of filling, roll up, place in rectangular baking pan, til pan is full. Pour the sauce over everything. Bake at 350 temp. for about 20 minutes in pre-heated oven.
@AHeerdt Yup. Basically Germanic.
My protein-per-meal costs $1-$3, whereas my hubby's costs $3-$8 on average.
Corn tortillas
tomatoe sauce
cumin and chili powder
vegetable oil
To make the tastiest and soft tortillas for enchilidas put 3 TB of tomato sauce and 3TB vegetable oil in a frying pan with some spices and heat it up. Then fry corn tortillas one at a time for a minute on each side. use a soft style spatula to try and not rip the soft tortillas. cool on a paper plate (the first few get stuck or rip but are good snacks)
Filling:
black beans
red onion
grated cheese
diced zuchinni
corn
in baking pan put a little enchilada sauce in the bottom. (I like canned green enchilada sauce) in each tortilla fill about half full with whatever you like, roll up and put seam side down in pan. get them snug in the pan, cover with more enchilada sauce and then bake about 350 until bubbly, add a little cheese on top and 5 more minutes.
Oh by the way I think that there is more incitament being a vegitarian if you adher to the Mahayana tradition than the Theravada. I think there are sutras where avoiding meat is recommended but not any suttas.
/Victor
I had zero guilt all my life,,, grew up on a farm, and I was skinning rabbits, scrapping pigs and plucking chickens at the age of 5. But now, damnit, I am not able to look at a piece of meat the same way... I think of the animal and if this is really neccesary, which takes away from the enjoyment of the meal. I haven't fired up our grill in months.
I'm not much of a vege eater to begin with, and I'm thinking about if I could really make the switch... I'm not sure, but perhaps. It feels like I have already started making a slow transition towards no meat... not by choice, but by having a different view of things.
/Victor
:cool:
i don't think your argument would stand against other things that some in society might describe as vulgar. take murder or pedophilia, for example. i would never say that if someone is bothered by public displays of such things that they were clinging.
obviously, as this board can attest, we could argue until the cows come home about whether or not meat eating truly is vulgar/immoral/whatever. i understand that not everyone on this board views eating meat in this way, but you should understand that the ones that do follow a vegetarian lifestyle are generally motivated out of compassion.
Just going with feelings and intuition.
Thats what I am saying too. lol.
Avijja-paccaya sankhara
With Ignorance as condition, there are Volitional Impulses.
Sankhara-paccaya viññanam
With Volitional Impulses as condition, Consciousness.
Viññana-paccaya namarupam
With Consciousness as condition, Body and Mind.
Namarupa-paccaya salayatanam
With Body and Mind as condition, the Six Sense Bases.
Salayatana-paccaya phasso
With the Six Sense Bases as condition, (sense) Contact.
Phassa-paccaya vedana
With Contact as condition, Feeling.
Vedana-paccaya tanha
With Feeling as condition, Craving.
Tanha-paccaya upadanam
With Craving as condition, Clinging.
Upadana-paccaya bhavo
With Clinging as condition, Becoming.
Bhava-paccaya jati
With Becoming as condition, Birth.
Jati-paccaya jaramaranam
With Birth as condition, Aging and Death,
Soka-parideva-dukkha-domanassupayasa sambhavan'ti
Sorrow, Lamentation, Pain, Grief and Despair.
Evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti
Thus is the arising of this whole mass of suffering.
I do not understand why people need to make differences between meats? But they do. To me it is as vulgar to eat one kind of meat compared to eating another. Do you honestly belive that a cow would say "Better eat me instead of one of your own"?
And then again many think themselves better because they avoid meat altogether but never pays a thought to all the myriads of lifeforms that had to give way and die so that they could have their potatoes and grains. Think about how we have changed the face of the earth destroying and indeed anhiliating habitats and whole species in the process.
Hypocrasy!
/Victor
Peace!
/Victor
>never pays a thought to all the myriads of lifeforms that had to give way and die so that they could have their potatoes and grains
I'm curious as to how you know what other people think? And many people do think of that and realize that some death is inevitable regardless of how you live.
>Hypocrasy!
Some people call it hypocrisy. Some people call it "being reasonable". The idea that eating grains and potatoes is hypocritical, and not eating meat because you don't want to be involved in killing, is intellectually dishonest and downright nonsensical! Because the only other alternative is to commit suicide by not eating anything, which is literally insane!
Not eating meat because it causes pain, discomfort and death to some living beings and then ignoring the pain, discomfort and death to other living beings just so you can eat vegdiet is obviously hypocrasy.
The only other alternative is not to take your life seeker. It is to understand and accept with your eyes open that living in this world in this society is going to cause harm to other living beings no matter what you do.
And please do try to convince me that it is much better to kill 200 mice in a grain field or silo than to kill one cow in a farm...
Or better yet tell it to the mice.
/Victor
How do you value a life of a mouse to a life of a calf compared to your own?
From what perspective? From your own the calfs or the mouses?
Maybe for another thread? Yaa?
Sigh!
/Victor