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The evils of alcohol!

buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
edited July 2005 in Buddhism Basics
Hi all,

Again, I was out at another site reading posts from people about alcohol...

Some people were talking about how the smell of alcohol sickens them and that they would never drink. Others say that they were very thankful that they didn't drink and were so happy that "they" can follow this precept of Buddha.

Some people did make some posts, that I personally agree with, about how "refraining from intoxication" just didn't deal with alcohol. In case some of you here didn't know - drugs can affect your ability of "clarity of thought" :)

So, then I immediately got out my soap-box (like I so often do) and started wondering if these people take hydrocodone when they finish with a nasty visit from the dentist? Or Laughing Gas while at the doctors office? Or all the other medications that cloud your ability to think clearly or concentrate. I've taken drugs that really didn't ease any suffering, but still made me feel nausious - thus clouding my ability to think clearly or concentrate.

So, what's worse? Having a glass or two of wine or a beer with a healthy dinner that doesn't cause you to lose your clarity of thought or....

Eating a huge meal that leaves you feeling bloated and so uncomfortable that you can't meditate? or...

Taking medication that while may ease suffering, still causes you to lose clarity of thought and ability to concentrate - or just makes you lose consciousness.

What if you're hospitalized with a serious injury? Is it better break a precept by being given pain medication so that you lose the ability to concentrate, your clarity of thought even your ability to meditate - just because you've been in a car accident or have cancer that is causing you enormous amounts of pain?

What are your thoughts?

Michael

Comments

  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited July 2005
    There was a fairly large discussion about this a while back:

    http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26

    :)
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Just goes to show you how new I am :)

    Michael
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited July 2005
    I believe it is up to your own discernment:

    If you do not believe that you are capable of making a skillful decision in the matter, refrain from anything. (i.e. you are unable to stop, you just want to get high, etc.)

    If you believe you are capable of using medicine and/or alcohol skillfully then use in moderation and be mindful of your actions. (i.e. one drink, vicodin from the dentist, etc.)

    I choose to refrain from everything because I myself have abused these things in the past. I do not feel I have adequate discernment in this matter.
  • emmakemmak Veteran
    edited July 2005
    I have always been anti - drugs. I very rarely take medications that are not natural or homeopathic. In saying that, I am currently taking tramadol for a severe toothache and antibiotics. (Evil) I dont like the cloudy head feeling I have. I am pretty healthy and take care of myself, so to turn around and pump myself full of narcotics makes me feel uneasy. I don't like putting unnecessary things in my body, but I am in sooo much pain.
    In this situation though, I have a two month wait until my teeth can be removed. The pain is unbearable now, and I don't want to be on tramadol for the next two months. I know that I have a strong mind, nut what if my body becomes reliant on this stuff?
  • AdianaAdiana
    edited July 2005
    As a recovering alcoholic, any form of alcohol is off-limits for me. I have never been one to use any sort of drug except as prescribed for me by a doctor. Alcohol was always my drug of choice. I do not even use any form of over-the-counter type cold medicine that has any alcohol either. I use nothing of any sort that has any form of alcohol in it. I have maintained my sobriety for seven years now. I do want to make sure that everyone realizes that I do not judge anyone for choosing to drink if that is what they want to do. There are a lot of people that can drink socially and be happy with that. As an alcoholic, that choice is not an option for me. I know full well what will happen to me if I take even one drink of anything alcoholic, so I just don't drink period. But, that is my choice today and I am happy with that.

    Adiana :smilec: :smilec: :wavey: :wavey:
  • emmakemmak Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Adiana you are a truly strong woman.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Yes, I can understand your delimna.

    But...

    I think taking something knowing that you're not doing it for addictions sake - I think that's a totally different idea.

    I think Buddha believed that if you had a condition requiring a physician - you should go see a physician.
    If you're taking drugs or alcohol just to become innebriated - I think that's something different.

    I was just reading posts by people that, I felt, were being too militant about things.

    Last night I went to dinner with my girlfriend and had two glasses of wine with my pasta dinner at an Italian restaurant. Was I messed up? Unclear of thought? No.
    But, if I had a problem with alcohol - you can bet I wouldn't be drinking.

    You can also be sure that when I go under the knife with a surgeon - I'm going to be taking something to knock me out.

    I think it all comes down to being realistic and keeping the precepts of Buddha in mind when doing whatever it is you're doing.

    Michael
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    This is a good thread. I have severe back problems and I take hydrocodone. Lotab 10 MG is what the label actually is. I found out from my doctor that the codene in it affects 99 out of 100 people with a drowsy affect. 1 out of 100 it has th eopposite effect giving the person energy. I am in the 1 out of 100. I take this medication everyday so I can function. I will tell you if you are in severe pain the effects that make you feel high do not last very long. All it does to me now is kill the pain. I go through mild withdrawls if I do not take it but I am mindful about it and I keep my doctor informed. I am dependant but not addicted. There is a fine line that I have to be very careful not to cross.

    Because of this painkiller I am able to excersise and do things that a lot of people take for granted. I am getting back into shape a little at a time and my doctor has dropped my dosage a little. I am using less and less all the time. I still have bad days of course where I need more but I am very mindful of what I take. Once I drop enough weight and get into shape I may not need them but for now I cannot function without them. I used to take them before my neck surgery and then I stopped for about a year and a half. I had no problems getting off them. I also didn't have to work in that time. When I had to go back to work my body gave out over the course of 2 months. I wasn't able to do anything but lay down all day and then struggle at work. I was taking 15 advil a day just to take the edge off. Now I take 3-4 pills a day and I am fine. I sometimes take a muscle relaxer before bed. So in my situation the medication does not affect me mentally. I go through physical withdrawls but I am aware of what is going on with my body. Sometimes I do not take a pill if i am done working for the day. If I know I am going to have to do some heavy work i take one. The bad thing is that if I take one too late at night I am up all night. One day I hope I will be off them or at least only have to take one once in a while on bad days. For now I am living a more productive life. I look at it as a crutch until I am well enough to not need it anymore. My back will never heal so I have to strengthen everything around it. This is why I do so much Taebo and I have to really work on my eating habits.




    As far as drinking I stopped about 5 years ago before Buddhism. I only drank once in a while. The reason I stopped was because I didn't see the point in it. That's funy since I am a Drunnken Fighter.
  • DharmaKittenDharmaKitten
    edited July 2005
    I'm actually trying to force myself to drink more! The reason is that I have IBS and I've found that the only thing that settles my stomach is a bit of alcohol. I'm not fond of most alcohol, though. I'm hoping a few quick sips of wine every day or other day will be enough. It's kind of an experiment at this point. Of course, I'm not driving anywhere after drinking a drop. I also have been trying to drink around dinner - that's the worst time for me generally and it helps me sleep. As soon as I'm done healing from surgery I'm going to start doing yoga and see how that helps. I'd much rather do that if it works. And yes, I have tried other things but even the docs don't know what to tell me to do. Going to see a new one soon, hopefully.
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    That reminds me of an episode of Sanford and Son. Someone says to Fred that a little drink settles their stomach. Fred answers, "The last time your stomach was so settle you couldn't move". Hope you feel better DK.
  • DharmaKittenDharmaKitten
    edited July 2005
    comicallyinsane wrote:
    That reminds me of an episode of Sanford and Son. Someone says to Fred that a little drink settles their stomach. Fred answers, "The last time your stomach was so settle you couldn't move". Hope you feel better DK.

    LOL! That's a good one. Thanks.
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