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The Five Aggregates

edited October 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Hello
Im an average 19 year old from England. I just recently became interested in Buddhism while being at college. I'd did a quick 10 minute search around google to see what it was all about. As you can tell there is alot to learn so I searched the internet for reviews on books. I found a good one called "What The Buddha Taugh" by Walpola Sri Rahula.

The book itself seems fairly good although i've been struggling with the words (im not much of a reader) anyways plodding on I came upto the section about the four noble truths. When explaining the first one Dukkha (which i've interpretated as suffering except the book tells me suffering does translate fully this word and that it can be suffering such as[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] stress, unsatisfactoriness[/FONT]) Which I understood but then it came to apart about the five aggregates. Well this has threw me all over I just couldnt understand what it meant. I read it over a few times and it just seems to be confusing me I dont know if its the book or just me being me. I want to understand it before I move onto the next part of the book.

Can anyone help?

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Luke the 5 aggregates are 5 things that we can imagine which are impermanent, not the self, and cause suffering when we cling to them as self.
  • edited October 2010
    The book I was reading mentioned Matter, Sensation, Perceptions, Mental Formations and Consciousness. They all mentioned senses including our minds. Now I might sound really stupid here but I’m going to try explain what I understand of each from what I’ve read from the book... Could you tell me if vie understood properly.

    Sensation - Is this the contact of the external world which we feel through our senses whether it is good or bad?

    Perception - How you recognise objects both physical and mental, but also felt through the power of the external world?

    Mental Formation - Is this to do with the choices we make knowingly and willingly?

    Consciousness - The awareness of something but not the recognition of something that is what perception is?

    Matter I don’t feel is described well in the book so I’m not sure what that means?


    And am I right to think these are ways suffering is caused and can be felt?

    *I’m really sorry if I sound like an idiot I feel a bit stupid, but I’m really keen on learning about Buddhism. I've never really studied any religion even though I went to a Christian school I’ve never had that much interest in it.
  • edited October 2010
    I'm new to and some of the terminology can be confusing. I have a general grasp, but some of the specific terms I couldn't define.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Luke I've been practicing buddhism for 8 years and I am still a little foggy on these ;) I figure I'll get to them when I need to. I do have some understanding of them of course, but I think your explanations are no worse than mine would be. Consciousness is especially tricky. Do they mean 'awareness' or 'mindfulness'? I don't think so I think consciousness is when you take the recognition of your 'knowing' (Awareness and mindfulness above) as an object. Whereas awareness itself is the knowing the knowing can know it knows and take that as an object.

    I'm unsure of course.
  • pineblossompineblossom Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Luke13 wrote: »
    The book I was reading mentioned Matter, Sensation, Perceptions, Mental Formations and Consciousness. They all mentioned senses including our minds. Now I might sound really stupid here but I’m going to try explain what I understand of each from what I’ve read from the book... Could you tell me if vie understood properly.

    Sensation - Is this the contact of the external world which we feel through our senses whether it is good or bad?

    Perception - How you recognise objects both physical and mental, but also felt through the power of the external world?

    Mental Formation - Is this to do with the choices we make knowingly and willingly?

    Consciousness - The awareness of something but not the recognition of something that is what perception is?

    Matter I don’t feel is described well in the book so I’m not sure what that means?


    And am I right to think these are ways suffering is caused and can be felt?

    *I’m really sorry if I sound like an idiot I feel a bit stupid, but I’m really keen on learning about Buddhism. I've never really studied any religion even though I went to a Christian school I’ve never had that much interest in it.

    Hi Luke13 (any significance).

    You are neither an idiot or stupid - in fact you acting in a beneficial way - and you are on the right track.

    Matter, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness are another way of drawing attention to the five senses, also referred to in the Dharma as skandhas.

    We take in information via our senses and if we rely on that information as 'reality' then we will suffer.

    You are apparently conversant with the web - have a look for the 'Heart Sutra'. This is the quintessence of the Buddha's teachings. What is being taught here is Emptiness.

    Emptiness is a difficult subject and it best to get taught by a skilled Buddhist teacher.

    In the meantime I urge you to learn about the Eight Fold Path and to apply those precepts to your life. You would benefit from joining a Buddhist centre. It is always good to rub shoulders with fellow travellers.

    Travel well my friend.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Copy/ paste from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha :)

    Buddhist doctrine describes five aggregates:

    "form" or "matter"<sup> </sup>(Skt., Pāli rūpa; Tib. gzugs):external and internal matter. Externally, rupa is the physical world. Internally, rupa includes the material body and the physical sense organs.

    "sensation" or "feeling" (Skt., Pāli vedanā; Tib. tshor-ba):sensing an object<sup> </sup>as either pleasant or unpleasant or neutral.

    "perception", "conception", "apperception", "cognition", or "discrimination" (Skt. samjñā, Pāli saññā, Tib. 'du-shes):registers whether an object is recognized or not (for instance, the sound of a bell or the shape of a tree).

    "mental formations", "impulses", "volition", or "compositional factors" (Skt. samskāra, Pāli saṅkhāra, Tib. 'du-byed) :all types of mental habits, thoughts, ideas, opinions, prejudices, compulsions, and decisions triggered by an object.

    "consciousness" or "discernment"<sup id="cite_ref-9" class="reference">[10]</sup> (Skt. vijñāna, Pāli viññāṇa, Tib. rnam-par-shes-pa):

    In the Nikayas/Āgamas:
    cognizance, that which discerns

    In the Abhidhamma:
    a series of rapidly changing interconnected discrete acts of cognizance.<sup id="cite_ref-14" class="reference">

    </sup>In some Mahayana sources: the base that supports all experience.
    And am I right to think these are ways suffering is caused and can be felt?
    Put another way, if we were to self-identify with an aggregate, we would cling (upadana) to it; and, given that all aggregates are impermanent (anicca), it would then be likely that at some level we would experience agitation (paritassati), loss, grief, stress, or suffering (see dukkha). Therefore, if we want to be free of suffering, it is wise to experience the aggregates clearly, without clinging or craving (tanha), apart from any notion of self (anatta).

    Suffering arises via Dependent Arising (2nd Noble truth)
    http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited October 2010
    People new to Buddhism often have trouble understanding the concept of the five aggregates (khandhas) and how they fit in with other teachings, such as those on dependent co-arising (paticca-samuppada) and not-self (anatta). The way I like to look at it, the teachings on dependent co-arising, the aggregates and not-self are quite insightful in that they're the parts of Buddhism that correspond to parts of modern psychology. For one thing, they basically detail the process by which we construct our sense of self, i.e., our ego or identity, and, ultimately, how to utilize that process in more skillful ways.

    The aggregates themselves, for example, aren't simply descriptions of what constitutes a human being as some people mistakenly think—they're one of the many ways of looking at and dividing up experience that we find throughout the Pali Canon (e.g., aggregates, elements, six sense-media, etc.). But more importantly, they represent the most discernible aspects of our experience on top of which we construct our sense of self in a process of, as the Buddha called it, "I-making" and "my-making" (e.g., MN 109).

    The first noble truth states that, in short, the five clinging-aggregate (panca-upadana-khandha) are dukkha (SN 56.11), i.e., it's the clinging in reference to the aggregates that's dukkha, not the aggregates themselves. But what does this really mean?

    According to the commentaries, dukkha is defined as 'that which is hard to bear.' In MN 9, clinging is defined as:
    "And what is clinging, what is the origin of clinging, what is the cessation of clinging, what is the way leading to the cessation of clinging? There are these four kinds of clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rituals and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. With the arising of craving, there is the arising of clinging. With the cessation of craving, there is the cessation of clinging. The way leading to the cessation of clinging is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration."

    In addition, the Buddha says that the five clinging-aggregates are not-self. He calls them a burden, the taking up of which is "the craving that makes for further becoming" and the casting off of which is "the remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving" (SN 22.22). The way I understand it, becoming (bhava) is a mental process, which arises due to the presence of clinging (upadana) in the mind with regard to the five-clinging aggregates, and acts as a condition for the birth (jati) of the conceit 'I am,' the self-identification that designates a being (satta).

    Looking at it from another angle, there's rarely a moment when the mind isn't clinging to this or that in one or more of the four ways (MN 11). Our identity jumps from one thing to another, wherever the clinging is strongest. Our sense of self is something that's always in flux, ever-changing from moment to moment in response to various internal and external stimuli, and yet at the same time, we tend to see it as a static thing. It's as if our sense of self desires permanence, but its very nature causes it to change every second. As the Buddha warns in SN 12.61:
    "It would be better for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to hold to the body composed of the four great elements, rather than the mind, as the self. Why is that? Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another.

    Change is, of course, a fact of nature. All things are in a perpetual state of change, but the problem is that our sense of self ignores this reality on a certain level. From birth to death, we have the tendency to think that this 'I' remains the same. Now, we might know that some things have changed (e.g., our likes and dislikes, our age, the amount of wrinkles we have, etc.), but we still feel as if we're still 'us.' We have the illusion (for lack of a better word) that our identity is who we are, a static entity named [fill in the blank], and we tend to perceive this as being the same throughout our lives.

    That said, the conventional use of personality is a function of survival, as well as convenience. However, clinging to our personalities as 'me' or 'mine' is seen as giving continued fuel for becoming, i.e., a mental process of taking on a particular kind of identity that arises out of clinging. Our sense of self, the ephemeral 'I,' is merely a mental imputation — the product of what the Buddha called a process of 'I-making' and 'my-making' — and when we cling to our sense of self as being 'me' or 'mine' in some way, we're clinging to an impermanent representation of something that we've deluded ourselves into thinking is fixed and stable. It becomes a sort of false refuge that's none of these things.

    These attachments, particularly our attachment to views and doctrines of self, keep us rooted in "perceptions and categories of objectification" that continually assail us and our mental well-being (MN 18). Thus, with the presence of clinging, the aggregates have the potential to become suffering (i.e., 'difficult to bear') when our sense of self encounters inconstancy. That's why the Buddha taught that whatever is inconstant is stressful, and whatever is stressful is not-self:
    "What do you think, monks — Is form [same with feeling, perception, fabrications and consciousnes] constant or inconstant?"

    "Inconstant, lord."

    "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"

    "Stressful, lord."

    "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

    "No, lord."

    Thus, monks, any form [same with feeling, perception, fabrications and consciousnes] whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

    In order to break down the conceptual idea of a self (i.e., that which is satisfactory, permanent and completely subject to our control) in relation to the various aspects of our experience that we falsely cling to as 'me' or 'mine,' we must essentially take this [analytical] knowledge, along with a specific set of practices such as meditation, as a stepping stone to what I can only describe as a profound psychological event that radically changes the way the mind relates to experience.

    As I've often mentioned before, in one of the ways I like to look at it, the conventional viewpoint (sammuti sacca) explains things through subject, verb and object whereas the ultimate viewpoint (paramattha sacca) explains things through verb alone. In essence, things are being viewed from the perspective of activities and processes. This, I think, is incredibly difficult to see, but perhaps what happens here is that once self-identity view (sakkaya-ditthi) is removed, the duality of subject and object is also removed, thereby revealing the level of mere conditional phenomena, i.e., dependent co-arising in action.

    This mental process is 'seen,' ignorance is replaced by knowledge and vision of things as they are (yatha-bhuta-nana-dassana), and nibbana, then, would be the 'letting go' of what isn't self through the dispassion (viraga) invoked in seeing the inconstant (anicca) and stressful (dukkha) nature of clinging to false refuges that are neither fixed nor stable (anatta). And without the presence of clinging in regard to the aggregates, they cease to be 'difficult to bear.'
  • edited October 2010
    thanks for replying everyone, i'm starting to get the grap of it kinda lol. I just kept plodding along with the book which luckly has came out of a confusing chapter, and I feel like im understanding other things better which is good as I thought it was all going to get even more complicated. :lol:
  • edited October 2010
    Luke. You are asking the right questions. I have been trying to figure those out since 1970; when I was an average 16 year old from the corn belt of the USA. You are asking questions I started asking about 10 years ago, so you are way ahead of me. I really started to figure it out about 5 years ago.

    BTW, Seeker242 has got it.
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