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This is the truth of wisdom.......
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* bell sounds *
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* bell sounds *
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The king said the highest level of swordmanship is where there's no sword in the swordman's hand and his heart.
It encompasses everything
peace.....
..........
And the zen like effects throughout the film like the water droppets in the chess court fight where the swordman enters into mental calmness.
calmness in motion. etc.
That's was great. Good movie with spiritual insight.
Have you realized the highest level of swordmanship?
Pure experience with no sense of "I" or attachment?
. . . . . . * empty space *
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So what is wisdom?................The cypress tree in the garden.
Masterful!
wordless direct experience
Wisdom comes in many forms to suit various wisdom faculty of different people.
That's why there are many school of Buddhism.
You can read 1000 pages like long bla bla bla (full of words and concepts and debates and logic) sutra
or
directly seeing the leaf falling in front of you
Zen / dzogchen = direct perception
Yes great movie that the swordsman certainly realize something
The Bell reminds us of the emptiness of all phenomena. Just as the sound arises it soon falls back into emptiness, or was it always there ?
Words are badly used to describe. Tsongkhapa was said to be the go to guy for putting Emptiness into words.
All that can be said for this is please be directed to the correct meditations upon emptiness with teachers to guide you and experience Buddha's most profound insight for yourself. Emptiness is the axe that severs our suffering completely Very joyus it is to be realized very blissfull it is to gain even a small insight.
Oh, a bell rings .......... it's the phone.... "what?........The biopsy results?...I need to make an appointment right away!!!???"......
Where is the damn "Zen" now?
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This thread talks of "pure awareness" ....plop ....and so forth. That is swell. If only life were a rock garden. But equinimity in the face of old age disease and death does not come cheap. that's all.
What's the problem with old age, disease and death? It is going to happen to us all, want it or not. Gautama died.
I still don't see against what you are arguing.
That is cheap talk. It is true, ofcourse, obviously. But it is cheap talk.
I don't have an argument, to what are you arguing? If you check my posts in the forum, when I want to debate I'm explicit. I just said: time to eat. Thus, I went to eat a cookie. Now the cookie has been eaten.
I'm not seriously arguing against you Alfonso. Just adding to the thread.
It began with a bell ringing. Just like when we are Buddhas on retreat.
But then on the drive home from the retreat, maybe not so much a Buddha heh?
Just sayin. I'm not fighting against you, though you are far from nothing my friend. Nice thought though.
Yes.
.............ahh forget it.:)
moon is * *
For example in your idea of wisdom I thought of a meditation teacher always having the presence of mind to ring a bell at the end of the session.
And when you have been sitting for some time the bell can sound quite beautiful I mean its hard to describe but its very beautiful. Sometimes.
But I think these things only go so far.... "Life is a box of chocolates" "wisdom is a bell"....
I mean I am not sure how useful these realizations are?? Yet you are correct that a bell is a profound symbol and that sound is quite profound. Well this has gotten me to thinking! Now you've done it hehe :eek:
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I don't know what the moon is besides what it appears to be and emptiness, thus sharing the same nature as all other things.
that's similar to the idea that words cannot describe that reality/truth right?
when you try to analyze the bell, you realized not, as you are in conceptual thinking.
*bell sound* is *bell sound*
without needing conceptual thinking of it.
saying *bell sounds* as "symbol of emptiness, no I, no time etc. is conceptual thought.
but realizing *bell sounds* is *bell sounds* is direct perception.
It's * *
if you keep on grasping the symbolism of bell, what if I change "bell" into "falling leaf" and "water drops" ?
then you might analyze it and try to find another conceptual symbolism?
You have asked one interesting question. What's the point or usefulness of this realization. So what if *bell sounds* is *bell sounds*?
Well, from my own experience of realizing this *bell sounds* thing, it happened when I was about 17 year old.
I was reading a comic version of "Zen talk" where there's a lot of stuff like *tree is wisdom*, the zen teacher smack the student head and student get instant realization, and stuff like that.
And from that reading I just got the sudden thunderbolt like realization of the *ting.....*
It's like seeing through the fabric of reality. It's like every thing interconnects and being the same. It's like everywhere in general and no where in specific. It's emptiness and beyond space time. It is as it is.
And most importantly, it CANNOT be described with words and concept. Because it's beyond it. Just like the first sentence of Tao Te Ching: the way that can be worded/described is not the exact way.
You have to realize it yourself. sorry. My words can't help much. You can ask a Zen guru to guide you to it.
(I'm not a Buddha yet ) :P
I didn't get all that from just * bell sounds *
But for me a bell sound is a bell sound too
Not "cheap" at all.........
What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song?
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? (Blake)
The reality of spiritual by-passing is well documented. For me, there is great mileage in what could be termed a mood of indifference towards "insight", indifference towards our current state. Rather, being more into true seeing of the negative states and preoccupations, and let "equinamity"/"insight"/"understanding" grow undiscovered, of themselves.
Do not worry about enlightenment. When growing a tree, you plant it, water it, fertilize it, keep the bugs away; and if these things are done properly, the tree will naturally grow. How quickly it grows, however, is something you cannot control. (Ajahn Chan)
Or, as the Good Book says.........for the earth brings forth fruits of herself. (St Marks Gospel)
Perhaps other words that are pertinent come from the Theravada Elder Nyanaponika Thera............
One should, however, know well and constantly bear in mind that the relinquishing of both sides, the transcending of the opposites, is the final goal — a goal which comes at the end of a long journey. Because this journey unavoidably leads through the ups and downs of samsara, the traveler will repeatedly encounter the play of opposites, within which he will have to make his choices and select his values. He must never attempt to soar above the realm of opposites while ill-equipped with feeble wings or else his fate, like that of Icarus, will be a crash landing. For a time, to the best of his knowledge and strength, he must firmly choose the side of the "higher" against the "lower," following what is beneficial from the standpoint of the Dhamma and avoiding what is harmful. But he should regard his choices and values as a raft, not clinging to them for their own sake, always ready to leave them behind to embark on the next phase of the journey. While still on the mundane plane, he must never forget or belittle the presence within himself of the "lower," the dark side of his nature, and he must learn to deal with this wisely, with caution as well as firmness.
To cross the ocean of life and reach "the other shore" safely, skill is needed in navigating its currents and cross-currents. In adapting oneself to those inner and outer currents, however, one must always be watchful. The currents can be powerful at times and one must know when it is necessary to resist them. Sometimes right effort has to be applied to avoid or overcome what is evil and to produce and preserve what is good. At other times it is wise to restrain excessive and impatient zeal and revert to a receptive attitude, allowing the processes of inner growth to mature at their own rate. By wisely directed adaptation we can learn to give full weight to both sides of every situation — to the duality in our own nature and in the objective circumstances we face. Only by confronting and understanding the two sides within one's own experience can one master and finally transcend them.
Hello Mr Doctor. I need to make an appointment right away or I'm going to die!
Right there?
It may or may not be masterful, it depends on the state of mind of the person stating it, which is many times impossible to discern on an internet forum. It could be masterful, or it could be just a parrot talking, impossible to say for sure. This is why teachers are very important in Zen because, in person, one can tell the difference between actual wisdom and "parrot talking".
IMO, the Zen teaching on "Bell sound" is the real life, real time direct expression of "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form". Unless of course you are sitting there thinking "God dammit, that bell is annoying! Turn it off!"
p.s.
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I think we've all had those moments on retreat, or in daily practice, where there is "blue comes, only blue", but it is when our karmic buttons get pushed that the real practice of unbinding greed hatred and delusion takes place.
That is what I've been taught anyway.
Thankyou for this quote. Knowing whether it is time to "let be" or to apply right effort, is not always clear. Knowing when habit energy must be skillfully countered is an art. I'm still, after many years, just starting to come to terms with that. If only life was a Japanese garden.
Agreed. This is what I think the "together action" teaching of Seung Sahn is all about. By being around and practicing with other people, more of your buttons get pushed more often, as opposed to always being by yourself. I think it is possible to not even know you have a particular button, until someone goes and pushes it. Someone pushing your buttons is a great teacher because it shows you buttons that you think you don't even have. One of the often overlooked benefits of the 3rd jewel IMO.
go through it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTsKEgUJyUQ&feature=related