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Defensiveness when instigated
Talisman
Veteran
I have been meditating a lot more frequently in the last couple of months and it has helped to reveal some of the deeper causes of emotional stress and the arising of negative feelings, attitude, and emotions in daily life. I can honestly feel the path working to make me an even happier and more peaceful person than I was before.
One hang-up I have been struggling with in particular, has to do with my relationship with my girlfriend. It's strange because other people can say hurtful or ignorant things to me, particularly my brother and dad, but barring serious confrontation the only thing that really throws me off my path is hostility or instigation from my girlfriend.
I'll try to be a little more specific:
We share a car, and this morning I dropped her off at work at 8am. I was scheduled to be in at 12:30p so I went home to hang out and wait for my shift. I made breakfast, played Fable 3 for a bit, did a load of laundry, made the bed, and tidied up our bedroom and bathroom before taking off for work. During this period of time, about 3 hours, she texted me about 6-7 times from work. She talked about how she missed me, and wishes she had been able to sleep in and spend time with me, etc. She also called me twice while on her 15 min smoke break just to "chat."
Before we left this morning, I remembered that she had mentioned she wanted me to bring a change of clothes for her when I left (we work at the same office.) So, before leaving I packed up a t-shirt, sweatpants, socks, and a pair of slippers. I also packed up some crackers cuz she wanted me to bring a snack.
When I got to work, I gave her the stuff and immediately I could tell that I had done something wrong. Apparantly her initial text, before the following 7 or so, detailed exactly what she wanted me to be bring, etc. I didn't see the text, I didnt bring what she wanted, blah blah blah, she's pissed. Now she's texting me from across the office wondering if I had vacuumed and finished the laundry and cleaned up the house, which is really just her trying to find reasons to be angry with me and to make me feel lazy and inadaquite.
This kind of behavior, where things dont go her way and she immediately gets angry, happens on an almost DAILY basis. I really wish she would just respond more ... humorously, with more patience and love than simply jumping down my throat for being absent-minded. I never ever ever get mad for her forgetting things or not cleaning or ... whatever!
My biggest issue regarding this entire situation is that whenever she gets mad like this and starts to put me down, against all my efforts I end up getting defensive and an argument ensues where I vehemently defend my position while inadvertantly causing her to become more upset with me. I know that I should be more patient, but every time I try to express myself logically and explain that her anger is hurting herself and me, she doesnt listen and tells me to "stop with the Buddhist crap."
I don't know what to do in these kinds of confrontations and typically I eventually confess that I was wrong and dote upon her until she forgives me and we go back to normal. Kind of pathetic, I know, but I'm at a loss for any better way of getting her to get over these petty little engagements.
Sorry for the rant, I just needed an outlet and possibly some advice.
Love and Kindness -T
One hang-up I have been struggling with in particular, has to do with my relationship with my girlfriend. It's strange because other people can say hurtful or ignorant things to me, particularly my brother and dad, but barring serious confrontation the only thing that really throws me off my path is hostility or instigation from my girlfriend.
I'll try to be a little more specific:
We share a car, and this morning I dropped her off at work at 8am. I was scheduled to be in at 12:30p so I went home to hang out and wait for my shift. I made breakfast, played Fable 3 for a bit, did a load of laundry, made the bed, and tidied up our bedroom and bathroom before taking off for work. During this period of time, about 3 hours, she texted me about 6-7 times from work. She talked about how she missed me, and wishes she had been able to sleep in and spend time with me, etc. She also called me twice while on her 15 min smoke break just to "chat."
Before we left this morning, I remembered that she had mentioned she wanted me to bring a change of clothes for her when I left (we work at the same office.) So, before leaving I packed up a t-shirt, sweatpants, socks, and a pair of slippers. I also packed up some crackers cuz she wanted me to bring a snack.
When I got to work, I gave her the stuff and immediately I could tell that I had done something wrong. Apparantly her initial text, before the following 7 or so, detailed exactly what she wanted me to be bring, etc. I didn't see the text, I didnt bring what she wanted, blah blah blah, she's pissed. Now she's texting me from across the office wondering if I had vacuumed and finished the laundry and cleaned up the house, which is really just her trying to find reasons to be angry with me and to make me feel lazy and inadaquite.
This kind of behavior, where things dont go her way and she immediately gets angry, happens on an almost DAILY basis. I really wish she would just respond more ... humorously, with more patience and love than simply jumping down my throat for being absent-minded. I never ever ever get mad for her forgetting things or not cleaning or ... whatever!
My biggest issue regarding this entire situation is that whenever she gets mad like this and starts to put me down, against all my efforts I end up getting defensive and an argument ensues where I vehemently defend my position while inadvertantly causing her to become more upset with me. I know that I should be more patient, but every time I try to express myself logically and explain that her anger is hurting herself and me, she doesnt listen and tells me to "stop with the Buddhist crap."
I don't know what to do in these kinds of confrontations and typically I eventually confess that I was wrong and dote upon her until she forgives me and we go back to normal. Kind of pathetic, I know, but I'm at a loss for any better way of getting her to get over these petty little engagements.
Sorry for the rant, I just needed an outlet and possibly some advice.
Love and Kindness -T
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Comments
"I don't know what to do in these kinds of confrontations and typically I eventually confess that I was wrong and dote upon her until she forgives me and we go back to normal."
This is a survival mechanism but in the long run it is a lack of communication. In my sangha there is a teaching called non-violent communication. I haven't taken the training so I haven't absorbed much but from my understanding one first point is to breath a little sigh of relief that we are human and these problems not to like denigrate them as inevitable. But its not so out of the ordinary and it is the three poisons again.
A technique is to give little pauses of space with the goal of having no goal in the conversation. No technique of calming her down or getting off the hook or getting peace or whatever. Just stopping yourself and letting more space for the natural unfolding to develope. Its not really 'listening' and giving her rope to then stfu (is that ok mods?) but rather it is stopping to get too clever. Because we are rigged to sniff out cleverness and manipulation.
I would think that if you allow more space she will sense that. Its frightening to allow that but it is the direction of awakening I feel.
Obviously I'm only seeing it from the male perspective, but it seems to me that women like to get into fights about unimportant things, I've always suspected that it's because they like it when we have to eventually beg forgiveness and dote on them for a while. I've also found that it's practically impossible to avoid these fights, if you try to avoid them by ignoring her attempts at aggravation she'll just get into a more foul mood until it erupts later on.
How wonderful of a perception you have of this! Certainly there is some confusion, but your practice is showing well in the detached observation you offer in-between the moments of discord. Imagine how much better off you are saying things like "how do I deal with myself" than "how do I change her?"
So, essentially this boils down to two main observations. One, there are your feelings, actions, and perceptions. Two, there are her feelings, actions, and perceptions. In order to properly look at this then, we must approach them independently.
First, with you, you obviously care for her. You remembered to pack up the clothes, and it must be painful for you to have someone you love become angry... especially when you consider yourself the cause of her anger. I wonder, when she becomes angry with you, could you do something else? For instance, instead of reading her words as something that has to do with "you" (as in the text message that initiates a sense of defensiveness in you) perhaps you could simply see that when she gets angry, she expresses that anger to you in that curious way. When you see her words not as "The way she sees things" but how she is "expressing her painful feelings, but in normal situations she doesn't see it this way" Do you see the difference? The detachment? If you don't make it about you, then you can see the message for what it is... and expression of her painful feelings.
She obviously loves you as well, which is evident in her attitude in-between the painful feelings. Can you imagine how funny it is to strike at the ones we love just because we are in pain? Its very common, and ironic. It is not a skillful way of relating to emotions, but it is common to blame others for our feelings.
I must laugh a little at your attempt to tell her that her anger is hurting you both! Can you see how unhelpful that might be? She is in pain, and you tell her "whelp, its your fault you're in pain." Even if its true, its unskillful to say!
I wonder, if by simply observing that she is angry, whether you could cultivate a sense of calm reassurance for her. In my experience with women, their pain is not directly soothed by logic... logic inflames them. Rather, their emotions are soothed through consideration, empathy and relatedness. For instance, instead of trying to convince her not to be mad through saying things like "Your karma, get over it" or "Stop attacking me" or "I'm sorry" consider a different approach.
Try simply touching her shoulders, or holding her hand when you can. Or, if words are the only available way of connecting with her, then make sure you stay rooted in what is really happening in the right now. Validate her position by telling her that she sounds very angry, and how it must be painful to feel like her boyfriend doesn't listen to her desires. You could say "Yeah, I missed that one text, I'm sorry" without defending yourself by pointing out all the good things you do... just let her know you see the situation for what it really is. She wanted you to bring something specific, you didn't, and her reaction was a set of painful feelings. Don't "logic" it out, or "defend your goodness"... just let her pain be real and vibrant. It is!
When we become less needful to defend ourselves, others stop feeling the need to attack us to be heard. They are in pain, we listen and hug them, and they heal. Does that make sense?
With warmth,
Matt
Thanks a lot for the insight, it helped wake me up. Thank you thank you.
How so?
I don't want to derail the thread, but the converse side is noticing that you're in pain. Consider asking her for a hug, saying "I feel angry and hurt and alone for some reason. Will you help me?"
Also, Talisman and being... thank you for the kind words.
With warmth,
Matt
Just a thought- she's putting down your religious beliefs and not listening. Look up "emotional abuse" and see if any of it makes sense to you.
"Buddhist crap?" To me, them's leavin' words.
Its one thing to call your view "buddhist crap" when upset, but it would be quite another to consider your view unimportant when she is at peace. Our ability to see from another's point of view quite often collapses when we are in pain. I wouldn't consider them "leavin' words" or emotional abuse... simply that she is perhaps dealing with her pain unskillfully.
Now, if she is belittling when un-agitated, or consistently agitated, you may wish to consider that life need not be an endurance trial.
This morning I got up before her and walked and fed our dog, and made some breakfast. I put away some dishes I'd done the night before. She was still in bed and I tried to cuddle with her a bit but she wasnt having it so I left her to rest. I was meditating when she woke up. My concentration was broken abruptly when she yelled from accross the house "If you are playing that video game right now there's gonna be a fucking storm!"
I didn't retaliate or anything, I actually laughed a little inside and went back to my meditation. She eventually burst into the room I was sitting in, I asked her what she was doing and she grunted and rolled her eyes at me and walked away.
I finished my meditation and went about the rest of my morning, putting together my lunch and brushing my teeth, etc. She didn't talk to me at all, which is unusual because when she has been close to me in the past she is very talkative. I could tell that she was giving me the "silent treatment."
Keep in mind that last night we seemed to be doing just fine. She had spent the afternoon with her friend and we made dinner together.
On our way to work we finished some errands, and along the way she was very abrupt and short with me. It's difficult to explain, it's just that after lviing with her for 3 years I can tell her body language and how she is feeling even if she's not speaking to me (sometimes especially if she's not speaking to me.)
So with all of this, I confonted her and asked ver batum "What's going on baby? Why are you treating me like this?"
She immediately blew up on me. First, she thought that I was angry because she had told me I need to find a ride from work. I told her that that isnt the issue at all and that I'm just concerned becasue she has been so distant the last few weeks and has been snapping at me a lot for little things.
She told me that she has been keeping her mouth shut about stuff that's pissing her off because I never listen to her and don't care how she feels. I told her that she doesnt need to be saying anything to be speaking volumes. I told her that I can tell when she is upset and that I am legitimately trying to reach out to her right now because I don't know what I can do to make her happy.
She said that she is still extremely pissed off at me for forgetting her things yesterday and that she doesnt get that even though I have quit smoking weed that I'm still so stupid. She says that little things like that show that I don't care about her enough to pay attention.
I told her that there is a big difference between not listening/not caring and absent-mindedness.
I have always been rather absent-minded, my dad used to scream at me about forgetting little things that he told me to do, but I try hard to improve myself. I might forget things every now and then but it doesnt make me a bad person or a bad boyfriend because I do put a lot of effort into making her happy and I devote myself to providing for her, even getting her a job at my office and giving up time with friends, family, even studies and religious pursuits in order to provide more attention to her wants and needs.
I didn't vocalize any of these details because I didn't want to make it a contest for who does what for who, but I also didn't want her to keep treating me bad becasue of what I consider and very small issue.
I asked if she was thinking of breaking up with me or something, and by her silence and hesitation I'm assuming that it was a yes.
I told her that even though I forget thigns every now and then that I'm trying to be more mindful and that I AM a good man and I don't deserve to be treated badly.
As we were walking into work she said that she doesnt feel close to me because I never want to do things with her or her friends and that I'm always off "doing other things." I responding by telling her that I honestly don't do anything unless it involves her. I agve up playing video games around her because she gets mad when I'm not able to give her my attention. I don't hang out with any friends except for her, AT ALL. I don't go to the bars or the movies or anything.
I quit drinking and smoking, and I don't feel comfortable around her or her friends when they are drinking and smoking and yet I still spend all my time with her. The absolute only times that we are in the same house and not in the same room is either when I'm in the bathroom or meditating.
Then she said that she can't handle our living situation and that that's why she is so angry with me. Granted we are living with my brother and she has never been confortable living with roomates, but we are taking this as an opportunity to improve our finances and quality of life since neither of us have credit enough to get a place on our own or get back to school.
I told her that it doesnt matter where we are or what trials we face that unless she can learn to approach the issues in her life in a more constructive way that these arguments are never goign to end and she will continue to be unhappy. She sarcastically replied that "Yea I'll figure it out later today." I told her that she doesnt need to figure anything out today jsut be kind to me and we can figure it out together.
That was right before we walked in and we haven't spoken since.
I'm exhausted from all this right now. And I'm stuck at a desk calling people about medical debt. What a day.
@aMatt @Sherabdorje @Jeffrey
Jen
That is quite a story! It does sound like there is a disconnect in your intimacy, have you considered couples counseling? From your story, a few things came to mind.
I think its great you pulled away from a "who does what for whom" kind of attitude, remember, its best to address the causes, rather than the symptoms.
I wonder, what would the ideal relationship with you look like from her side? What is it that she's hoping for, but not getting? What is her view?
She seems to have a difficult time with her desires, saying things like "You made me mad because you don't spend time with me" rather than "I would like to spend some time with you." Perhaps you could ask her if she would like to go on a walk with you, or something alone together. If you are living with a family member, consider that her sense of togetherness with you might be consistently drained.
Also, consider that there is a difference between being together in the same room, and actually forming stronger intimacy with each other. If you two are off in another world (such as watching TV together) you usually aren't really building any kind of intimacy. You're cohabitating. If you take a bath together, really looking and appreciating each other, listening, then you're building.
Consider questions like "what are you seeing here?" and "If you could design a happy moment/life/situation with me, what would that look like?" It sounds like you don't really see her view. You might notice her emotions, but you don't see what she is seeing. Don't try to make it logical from your side, just try to curiously understand the way it is put together on her side.
Don't get me wrong, you might be doing lots of wonderful things from your side, logical supportive things... but if those things aren't nourishing to her sense of intimacy, they're not going to help you in this kind of dissonance with her. So, you need to find out what she's really looking for...
Good luck!
Matt
With love -T
The other person (you) is left bombarded, criticized and overwhelmed. But I must warn you. Try not to stone-wall (shut down, close up, become a blank wall of passive irritation). The other person wants a resolution/reaction out of you,... and will escalate the attack until they get one. In addition, don't fall into the trap of appeasing apology. Trust me... women know when you are really sorry and when you are just giving in. In fact they will demand better acting if they see through b.s.
(So how does my girlfriend defeat me... er I mean... what?! I don't do this :P) Well usually she hears me out, restates my accusation to verify if this is what I'm trying to say. Then she agrees that she hears me and understands why I could have assumed this. Then she provides evidence to show that I am either wrong, exaggerating, or lumping together unrelated incidences. What de-fuses me is when I'm told that I'm heard and understood. But still wrong because _____. It works better than when she storms off, glares, gives a quick appeasing apology, or flat out goes-toe-to-toe with me. She often asks "why do you fight with me but you're patient and understanding with everyone else?" and I reply "because I love you more than anyone else... and I'm immature and care too much what you think. So ah... sorry about getting angry right off", then she says "Could you stop saving up your grievances at me and just talk before you blow?", and I say "I'll work on that... is there a code word we can use so you'll take me seriously when I'm trying to tell you something?" (Seriously just now I asked her what our code word is.. and we both forgot!)
Thanks for the insight, it helps. We're doing better now.
One of the "symptoms" as it were, is a constant but unspoken, or un-articulated dissatisfaction with everything the partner does, no matter how hard they try.
It's almost as if they deliberately want to find fault, in order to vindicate their own negative attitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive